Let’s talk D

[TBBills Fan]

My girl likes the D

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

It's basically the same outside rush that teams break for long TDs. Henry, Bijan, Achane and now Tucker.  It seems our LBs and SS can't fill that outside hole reliably and the DE/DT that side can't disrupt on that side. CBs can't get off their WR blocks either.  Collective fail it seems

 

It's a number of issues at every level of the defense -

 

• The edge isn't set by the end properly, or they take the bait and end up too far upfield while also enabling linemen to advance to the 2nd level
• Linebackers struggle to shed, or shoot the wrong gap and take themselves out of the play
• Secondary angles have been poor, and the tackling among this group is probably the worst of each unit

[Sestak4ever]

I believe that Babich is more of an issue than the talent level. Good coordinators can disguise short comings in the defense. He just doesn’t seem to be watching the same game as us fans.

[OldNMBillsFan]

17 hours ago, Dafan said:

Honestly, if the Bills can get back to scoring 30+ points a game.  I dont care about the run D as much.  What ppl also forget to mention, the Bils pass D is #1 for yards per game and #4 overall.  Yes I hate the huge runs. But if Bills are averaging over 30 points scored...running the ball isn't going to beat them that often.

Some other interesting stats on the D.

 

The Bills are tied for 8th in forcing the opponent to punt. They force an average of 3.9 punts a game.

They are tied for 14th in points allowed per game with allowing an average 22.9 points a game.

The Bills D is tied for 5th in tackles for a loss. They are averaging 5.6 tackles for a loss per game.

The Bills D is allowing 322.7 yards per game putting them at 13th.

The Bills D is tied for 10th in sacks with 26.

The Bills D is 9th in takeaways with 13.

 

The big runs are hard to watch, and the D needs to do a better job at stopping them. But in my opinion the sky is not falling. When you look at the stats that matter, Forcing the opposition to punt, takeaways, and points allowed per game, they are better than most teams.

 

[DrBob806]

17 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

🤮🤮🤮

 

Would love to hear other’s thoughts on how this D improves down the stretch?  There is no calvary coming so unless we plan on winning every game in a shootout something has to change!

I don't think anything can change at this point of the season, unless they decide to blitz more. Implementing a brand new scheme is very rare 10 games in to a season.

 

It's one reason why I predicted a 42-38 Bills win yesterday. 

 

The Bills are kind of like an old PAC 12 or Big 12 team. They focus on outscoring the other team, and hope to make a few defensive stops during a game.

[mjt328]

43 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

It's a number of issues at every level of the defense -

• The edge isn't set by the end properly, or they take the bait and end up too far upfield while also enabling linemen to advance to the 2nd level

 

Joey Bosa is the best pass rusher we've had during the McDermott era.  But he's also one of the worst defense ends I've seen at defending the run.  For every time he's impacted the QB's throw, he's also been the culprit of a big run because of poor contain and over-pursuit.

 

43 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

• Linebackers struggle to shed, or shoot the wrong gap and take themselves out of the play

 

This one has been a problem for years.  Our LBs are undersized, and it's only become a bigger problem as the NFL evolves towards bigger O-Lines and more running the ball.  Matt Milano and Terrel Bernard used to make up for it with their playmaking in other ways.  But that just isn't happening much this season.  Both look stuck in the turf.  You can't be small AND slow.

 

43 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

• Secondary angles have been poor, and the tackling among this group is probably the worst of each unit

 

The spot across from Cole Bishop has been an issue all season.  First Taylor Rapp was concealing a serious injury.  Now we have Jordan Poyer, who is also well past his prime.

 

 

[HoofHearted]

17 hours ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

The in game adjustment was run a 3-4 D & have Dorian Williams running in to clean up the run per Joe Marino, which worked a little better. Don't know if it's a long term fix this season, but not sure it can be worse.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we didn't run any 3-4. Marino must be getting it confused with our Dime package if that's indeed what he said.

[mjt328]

6 minutes ago, DrBob806 said:

I don't think anything can change at this point of the season, unless they decide to blitz more. Implementing a brand new scheme is very rare 10 games in to a season.

 

It's one reason why I predicted a 42-38 Bills win yesterday. 

 

The Bills are kind of like an old PAC 12 or Big 12 team. They focus on outscoring the other team, and hope to make a few defensive stops during a game.

 

As many have said, I think the best thing we can do is get our young players on the field.

In most cases, the older vets are the biggest liabilities (Milano, White, Poyer).  It can only get worse from this point.

 

Get some young legs in there.  Then we can at least get them some experience, and have a better idea where things stand for next year.

 

 

[HoofHearted]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am critical of a lot of what McDermott has got wrong this year. But he has been calling it much better on defense than Babich. That was not hard. Babich was way out of his depth. Personally I don't think it is a scheme issue and, while there is always a call or two, since the change I don't really think it is a playcalling issue. They have no difference makers up front and the second level looks old and slow. And while the scheme does prioritise pass defense over run defense there is no doubt the run D has to look better than this. They did go to some bear front 2nd half and it worked a bit better.... but man they need to find an answer. I'm just not sure what it is with their personnel.

When was this? Only time I saw that we went three down was in our dime sets. Other than that we were in our typical 1's and 3's and played some G fronts. Nothing out of the norm.

 

Scheme is not the issue. DL gets too tall and pushed around - doesn't command doubles. Second level defenders looked horrific recognizing pullers.

[bigK14094]

18 hours ago, cage said:

Did Hairston play today??  I don't think I saw him a single time

He was in there some but didn't hit the stat sheet.

18 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i saw him once. I didn’t see Hancock at all. Would love to know the snap counts. 

Check Joe B in the athletic who gives that data

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

Joey Bosa is the best pass rusher we've had during the McDermott era.  But he's also one of the worst defense ends I've seen at defending the run.  For every time he's impacted the QB's throw, he's also been the culprit of a big run because of poor contain and over-pursuit.

 

 

 

 

 

I would have thought given his age and injury history that he should just be playing limited snaps in obvious pass rushing situations … he is not suited to defending the run .. i don’t know how many more times they got to see it..

 

I know they are currently in a bit of an injury crisis  … but they have overused Bosa all year to date 

[mjt328]

6 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I would have thought given his age and injury history that he should just be playing limited snaps in obvious pass rushing situations … he is not suited to defending the run .. i don’t know how many more times they got to see it..

 

I know they are currently in a bit of an injury crisis  … but they have overused Bosa all year to date 

 

That was probably the original plan.

 

Then Michael Hoecht got suspended.  Then Landon Jackson struggled really bad in preseason.  Then AJ Epenesa missed a bunch of time.  Then Hoecht came back and got injured.  Then Jackson was activated and got injured.

 

[Aussie Joe]

34 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

That was probably the original plan.

 

Then Michael Hoecht got suspended.  Then Landon Jackson struggled really bad in preseason.  Then AJ Epenesa missed a bunch of time.  Then Hoecht came back and got injured.  Then Jackson was activated and got injured.

 

It’s gunna be interesting if Bosa gets a long term injury then … which seems to be par for the course every year 
 

[DisplacedBillsFan]

I’m more concerned about our run defense being wildly inconsistent than I am with it being bad.

 

The bad weeks were really bad:

Baltimore 238

NO 189

Atlanta 210

Miami (game 2) 197

TB 202

 

The other half of our games range from mediocre to decent:

 

Jets 100

Miami (game 1) 130

NE 71

Carolina 114

KC 79

 

These last 5 average 98.8 yards per game. That would put us as the 8th best run defense on the season.

 

Of course, it may appear we’ve only been able to keep bad rushing teams in check, but that’s not necessarily the case.

 

On the season, for team rushing yards per game, Jets rank 5th, Carolina ranks 9th, and KC is 16th, while Miami and NE are in the bottom half of the standings.

 

Of course, there are always the nuances of statistics. Which team averages are skewed because of one or two big games, which teams had their best rushing game against us and otherwise struggled, etc.

 

As a whole, I take this all as us having the capability to stop the run, or at least contain it to that +/- 100 yard mark. What needs to change to be consistent. Is it the weekly game plan? Is it players missing assignments or overrunning tackles?
 

I don’t have statistics, but to my untrained eye, we seem to be tackling better than recent years. I only say that because there seem to be fewer instances of being frustrated when we have a guy dead to rights and then let them escape for 20 yards… but I could be off on that.

 

Changes are needed for sure, but there’s some evidence that the personnel we have can be effective.

 

 

Edited 34 minutes ago by DisplacedBillsFan

[Rockinon]

Talk D? Do we have to?

[Rockinon]

2 minutes ago, DisplacedBillsFan said:

I’m more considered about our run defense being wildly inconsistent than I am with it being bad.

 

The bad weeks were really bad:

Baltimore 238

NO 189

Atlanta 210

Miami (game 2) 197

TB 202

 

The other half of our games range from mediocre to decent:

 

Jets 100

Miami (game 1) 130

NE 71

Carolina 114

KC 79

 

These last 5 average 98.8 yards per game. That would put us as the 8th best run defense on the season.

 

Of course, it may appear we’ve only been able to keep bad rushing teams in check, but that’s not necessarily the case.

 

On the season, for team rushing yards per game, Jets rank 5th, Carolina ranks 9th, and KC is 16th, while Miami and NE are in the bottom half of the standings.

 

Of course, there are always the nuances of statistics. Which team averages are skewed because of one or two big games, which teams had their best rushing game against us and otherwise struggled, etc.

 

As a whole, I take this all as us having the capability to stop the run, or at least contain it to that +/- 100 yard mark. What needs to change to be consistent. Is it the weekly game plan? Is it players missing assignments out overrunning tackles?
 

I don’t have statistics, but to my untrained eye, we seem to be tackling better than recent years. I only say that because there seem to be fewer instances of being frustrated when we have a guy dead to rights and then let them escape for 20 yards… but I could be off on that.

 

Changes are needed for sure, but there’s some evidence that the personnel we have can be effective.

 

 

I think the problem is injuries are forcing a lot of changes on our defense. Losing defensive linemen being the biggest factor. That effects how LBs play the run too. To many changes too rapidly to settle into a solid unit. Run defense is a whole team effort. Each player depends on the guy next to him but the players keep changing. Gotta get these injuries to settle down so the run D can settle in. 

[Fan in Chicago]

3 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we didn't run any 3-4. Marino must be getting it confused with our Dime package if that's indeed what he said.

Welcome back. Where ya been?

[Shaw66]

21 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 Really poor personnel acquisition on the DL/LBs by Bean.  

I agree.  All Beane did was get Bosa, Sanders, Walker, Hoecht, Ogunjobi, and Lawson.  I'm surprised Beane still has a job. 

[Dr. Who]

3 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

When was this? Only time I saw that we went three down was in our dime sets. Other than that we were in our typical 1's and 3's and played some G fronts. Nothing out of the norm.

 

Scheme is not the issue. DL gets too tall and pushed around - doesn't command doubles. Second level defenders looked horrific recognizing pullers.

Are these coaching issues? Can we make technical adjustments and suddenly be a more effective defense?

Some of the defensive problems persist across the years with different personnel, so I had wondered if it was a scheme issue.

I recollect you have insight, so I'd appreciate it if you could briefly explain why it is not a scheme issue.

Edited 8 minutes ago by Dr. Who

[CNYfan]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  All Beane did was get Bosa, Sanders, Walker, Hoecht, Ogunjobi, and Lawson.  I'm surprised Beane still has a job. 

Thompson