Coaches are heavily implying that Coleman isn’t trying on the field

[yall]

17 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Show up to friggin work.  Grow up.  Take it seriously.  Nobody else does this crap. Stuff like that.  

Wow, that's pretty damning, but definitely checks out with everything else we're hearing. 

 

Specifically with Dawkins calling him out. Usually guys dance around that stuff, but he was pretty blunt. 

 

I'd hate to have to cut bait on this guy, hopefully he gets it soon.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, yall said:

Wow, that's pretty damning, but definitely checks out with everything else we're hearing. 

 

Specifically with Dawkins calling him out. Usually guys dance around that stuff, but he was pretty blunt. 

 

I'd hate to have to cut bait on this guy, hopefully he gets it soon.

What is surprising is that these are professionals (paid employees).  They come to work to do their daily job.  Why would he be skipping it, especially on a team where he can be the hero week in/week out; a team that is a Super Bowl favorite.   Is it a lack of motivation?  Is it a hindering injury ?  Is he in the coaches dog house and unable to get out of it.  He was the chosen one by Allen coming out of the draft.  He came in humble and said all the right things. It is really perplexing what is happening to him.  And more importantly, is the team's psychologist not available to talk to him?   Who is helping him come out of this slump....so many questions and very little answers...damn McDermott

[strive_for_five_guy]

38 minutes ago, ganesh said:

What is surprising is that these are professionals (paid employees).  They come to work to do their daily job.  Why would he be skipping it, especially on a team where he can be the hero week in/week out; a team that is a Super Bowl favorite.   Is it a lack of motivation?  Is it a hindering injury ?  Is he in the coaches dog house and unable to get out of it.  He was the chosen one by Allen coming out of the draft.  He came in humble and said all the right things. It is really perplexing what is happening to him.  And more importantly, is the team's psychologist not available to talk to him?   Who is helping him come out of this slump....so many questions and very little answers...damn McDermott

McD is probably the best chance Keon has of turning things around while here.  He seems about as fair as they come, and even commented in recent days how everyone has a different journey.  Sounded like a father more than a coach.  

Whether that gets through to Keon or not, who knows.  Maybe he’s been the star athlete for so long and now living off his rookie contract, he either doesn’t appreciate or care that he’s not going to take the next step in his NFL career if he doesn’t get his act together.  He seems defiant so far versus remorseful.  I’d let him keep riding the bench until he gets his act together.  Even then, if the offense is rolling, let him ride the bench the rest of the year.  I don’t think the message has gotten through to him yet.

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, yall said:

Wow, that's pretty damning, but definitely checks out with everything else we're hearing. 

 

Specifically with Dawkins calling him out. Usually guys dance around that stuff, but he was pretty blunt. 

 

I'd hate to have to cut bait on this guy, hopefully he gets it soon.

He was a bad pick like Elam.  Its time to cut bait this offseason 

[boater]

I am inclined to think Coleman's abilities are what they are, and that isn't that great.

 

BUT, I could be wrong. Maybe his problem is a mental block of some kind. It occurs to me that the team psychologist (Dr. Desaree Festa) could work on his psyche. That is what she is advertised to do:

 

"Mental health is something that we really value here," Festa said of the belief and buy in from the team. "My job as the team psychologist is to help optimize players' mental space on the field as well as off the field. Thus, the goal is to take care of both the athlete and the person in their mental, emotional, and relational well-being because we know that healthier athletes off the field are healthier athletes on the field and vice versa. My goal is to help support the whole player, both performer and person." (link)

 

Maybe she can turn Coleman into a performer.

[colin]

if coleman were a 5th round pick he'd only have ever gotten spot duty.  frankly, that might have made him a better player, he's a classic looks like a guy who can dominate but just can't play ball kinda guy.

 

he has a chance to really embrace a smaller role and stay on the team, but i think that's a slim chance and he's likely gonezo.

[2003Contenders]

12 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Any doesn’t mean every, no matter how hard you try to make it so.  
 

Coleman is hardly the first player, let alone the first wideout, to be late to or to miss a meeting.  Diggs, for example,  was chronically late,  so much so he had a dedicated parking spot next to the door.  Coleman’s on-field performance has been so abysmal that he didn’t get the Diggs treatment and was “outed” by the Bills for his immaturity.  So I’d say he has some pretty big problems.  
 

I’ll add another nugget.  I overhead, at the stadium on Sunday, a prominent member of the organization absolutely destroying Coleman.  I wasn’t part of the conversation, but I heard it well, and I was taken aback by the blunt and critical tone.  Lots of frustration with him.  

I get what you are saying. But it reminds me of back in the early 90s during the Cowboys' run, Jimmy Johnson rather infamously cut a marginal player on the spot for falling asleep during film session.  At a press conference after the incident, a reporter asked Jimmy what he would have done if it had been Troy Aikman who had fallen asleep instead of the other player. Jimmy replied, "I would have walked over to him, nudged film and said 'Troy, wake up!'".

 

The point is that an elite player (like Diggs was for the Bills most of the time) can get away with things that other players can't. It may seem unfair, but that is the nature of the business. Coleman hasn't done anything to date that has earned him this type of favoritism. And, given that he has already been disciplined on multiple occasions for the same indiscretion -- and both his QB and head coach were placed in a position just days before of defending his perceived lack of effort -- his decision to skip a mandatory team meeting could not have come at a worse time.

 

I don't personally know the young man, so it is difficult for me to guess what the issue may be. Did he view the nice payday he received when joining the NFL as the culmination and end of his journey? Is he open to coaching and guidance from more seasoned players and coaches? I will say that I do not like his body language -- as it does come across as he doesn't care at times. That could be just part of his personality/demeanor, and perhaps the effort really is there. But perception is reality, and the perception by observers (including apparently some players and coaches) is that he that he does not always give max effort.

 

He's still young, and I truly believe that he is playing for an organization that has his best interest at heart -- and will do whatever they can to help him "grow up". But it's up to him to step up and rise to the challenge.

[billsfan89]

I think this is Keon's last shot to really turn it around here. The team has tried to do less harsh actions but now they benched him and told him shape up or ship out. And sometimes guys need to be cut or traded to click or they never get it. I think if Keon shows up and works hard the rest of the season they will bring him back and try to get it to work if nothing changes expect him to be traded for a later round pick swap of some sort or in a package as a throw in for another WR.

[Fleezoid]

16 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

I get what you are saying. But it reminds me of back in the early 90s during the Cowboys' run, Jimmy Johnson rather infamously cut a marginal player on the spot for falling asleep during film session.  At a press conference after the incident, a reporter asked Jimmy what he would have done if it had been Troy Aikman who had fallen asleep instead of the other player. Jimmy replied, "I would have walked over to him, nudged film and said 'Troy, wake up!'".

 

The point is that an elite player (like Diggs was for the Bills most of the time) can get away with things that other players can't. It may seem unfair, but that is the nature of the business. Coleman hasn't done anything to date that has earned him this type of favoritism. And, given that he has already been disciplined on multiple occasions for the same indiscretion -- and both his QB and head coach were placed in a position just days before of defending his perceived lack of effort -- his decision to skip a mandatory team meeting could not have come at a worse time.

 

 

This is spot on. Many years ago, I was working shift in an aircraft maintenance shop. Every shift there would be a shop turnover with outgoing shift. Most folks would get in 10-15 minutes early. One young kid would come in 2-5 minutes late. Not all the time but often enough that it was noticed. One morning he shows up 5 minutes late again. Another guy showed up 15 minutes late. The young kid was counseled and asked me why the other dude wasn't counseled as well. Obvious what the answer is here. Basically said, 'The other guy is always here 15 minutes early. it's a habitual thing, not a time thing. Be consistently better and they'll forgive the 1-offs'. 

 

[jaybeezee]

On 11/17/2025 at 8:29 PM, Beck Water said:

Starting with 2018, and only counting players who are still active:

Tremaine Edmunds LB of course.  Even OP acknowledges him.

Harrison Phillips DT.  Started 17 games for 3 years and all 10 this year for Vikes, 59-74% of the snaps.  Vikes #5 D last year, 14-3 and in 2022 13-4.  Solid.

Siran Neal CB.  Played 17 games for MIA and 11 so far for SF as a STer.  SF currently 7-4

Wyatt Teller G.  Starting for Cleveland at G since 2019.  Has been to 3 probowls and 2nd team AP twice.  Might remotely be any good.

Ray Ray McCloud WR.  Has played on 5 different teams since leaving the Bills, including 12-4 Steelers, Conf Champ and SB with the 49ers. Largely PR/KR Led the league in PR in 2021.  Also saw significant WR snaps with PIT in 2021 and ATL in 2024.  Ya kind of think he might remotely be good if he lead the league and played in 2 conf. champs and a superbowl.

2019
Devin Singletary RB.  Solid year for HOU in 2023 with more yards than he had in B'lo.  Currently playing for the Giants and his YPC has tanked.  

Cody Ford G.  Started every game at G for Cincy in 2023, all but 1 in 2024, all so far this season.  He ain't an all pro, but they haven't found better.

2020
Isaiah Hodgins WR.  For a player who was not "Remotely any good" there was a lot of heartburn here when we lost him to the Giants on waivers.  After an OK year in 2023, he lost playing time in 2024 and gained it back this year.  Played a lot and had a decent game last Sunday.  We'll see how he does now Daboll's gone

Dane Jackson.  Back with the Bills now.  Played ~40% of the snaps for CAR last year in 9 games and 3 starts so they might have thought he was remotely any good 

2021
Matt Araiza. P.  Punting and holding for the Chiefs.  Lots of heart burnings here about that.

Nick Broeker  G, Playing for Houston, mostly ST.  All 9 games this season

Alex Austin CB.  Has been in New England last 3 seasons, playing ST and CB.  Has started 5 games at CB in the last 2 years.

That's 11 players besides Edmunds who were drafted by the Bills, went elsewhere, and saw significant playing time.  Several STers, but when a guy is leading the league as an STer he might be above "remotely any good".  6 have been starting.

I know, @BuffaloBillyG, there I go with the facts again

 

I did the laughing emoji! You are severely reaching. The only player worth anything is Teller and our dumb dumb GM traded him for nothing. 

 

You brought up Dane Jackson,  Alex Austin??. Etc.. all nobody's that barely see the field.

 

Im talking about impact players, that are studs.not STs.

[Beck Water]

9 hours ago, jaybeezee said:

I did the laughing emoji! You are severely reaching. The only player worth anything is Teller and our dumb dumb GM traded him for nothing. 

 

You brought up Dane Jackson,  Alex Austin??. Etc.. all nobody's that barely see the field.

 

Im talking about impact players, that are studs.not STs.

 

LOL sure buddy.  You wrote "There hasn't been one player that they drafted that is no longer on this team that is remotely any good, outside of Edmunds"

but
What you really meant was "there hasn't been one player they drafted that is no longer on this team that is a real STUD, an impact player at his position."

 

And it's my fault, I'm "severely reaching" for not understanding what you meant, because the words you used were not the words you meant.  Gotcha.  News flash: if the Bills didn't re-sign a stud impact player at his position, that would be a scouting and coaching failure.

 

I listed a number of players no longer with the team who see the field regularly.  Harrison Phillips - not only starting just about every game, but on team with a lot of wins.  Wyatt Teller (strangely, a guy even you seem to recognize as "remotely any good" but who disproves your statement on his own).   Cody Ford - you may not think he's good, but he's started a lot of games.  Devin Singletary - again, he had his best year in 2023 on a pass-first Houston team that went 10-4 and went to the division round that season.

 

But ya know, a lot of top coaches who won a lot seem to feel that ST matters.  Guys like Belichick.  Our own Marv Levy.  But @jaybeezee knows better, ST doesn't count even when a guy is leading the league as a punt returner or is so good at ST that multiple teams sign him just for that skill. 

Second News Flash: Teams don't sign players they don't feel are "worth anything" or not "remotely any good", whether their primary role is ST or not.

 

I don't think I need to reach here.  

 

Have a nice day, or have whatever sort of a day you consider most appropriate for you.

Edited 2 hours ago by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

On 11/18/2025 at 8:44 AM, ganesh said:

What is surprising is that these are professionals (paid employees).  They come to work to do their daily job.  Why would he be skipping it, especially on a team where he can be the hero week in/week out; a team that is a Super Bowl favorite.   Is it a lack of motivation?  Is it a hindering injury ?  Is he in the coaches dog house and unable to get out of it.  He was the chosen one by Allen coming out of the draft.  He came in humble and said all the right things. It is really perplexing what is happening to him.  And more importantly, is the team's psychologist not available to talk to him?   Who is helping him come out of this slump....so many questions and very little answers...damn McDermott

 

I know nothing factual here and have no inside information or insight.   But part of the journey for young players is learning to be a professional.  A friend's daughter who went from DI VB to pro VB in Europe described that journey herself.  College is very very structured.  In the Pros, you have to provide a lot of your own structure.  The team tries to help players learn to be pros, but there's learning involved.

 

I suspect that two things are at play:

1) Dunning-Kruger.  It's not uncommon for a guy to be a team's first draft pick, sign a contract with lots of money, and think they've arrived.  They overestimate their skills.  They don't have to do something that makes them uncomfortable like travel to Cali and run routes/catch balls for Josh or go join Shakir working with Eric Mould in the off season.   He can keep doing what he has been doing that made him a success (a high draft pick) like working with the guy he worked with pre-draft.

 

It was pretty clear during training camp that Coleman had a problem.  He was failing to catch balls that were 100% on target.  That's usually a focus problem, an eye discipline problem.  It took Knox a couple of years to acknowledge he needed to work on it and get to it.  And Coleman's release moves had improved, but not as much as they needed to.  Maybe doing the same thing and hoping for different results isn't The Way.

 

Be that as it may, Coleman's game against the Ravens seemed to validate his off season work.  8 of 11 for 112 yds, 73% catch %.  Whoo hoo.

 

Only it wasn't sustainable.  He hasn't broken 50 ypg since, and he's had 3 games with 50% or below catch %.  Unacceptable.

 

It wouldn't be unheard of for a young guy who came into the season thinking he's arrived, and he's done enough, and saw his opening game as validating that, to take a slide down into the Valley of Despair.   Especially when he has lots of money and can show up in a bar or club and self-medicate to drown his sorrows and rake in the back pats and the ego food.  Then what?

 

Pro athletes necessarily have a paradoxical mindset.  On the one hand, most of them have had to tune out a lot of negative opinions to get to where they are.  Take Josh Allen - all the Division I programs that didn't scout him and wouldn't take a chance.  All the draft pundits who said "If Josh Allen succeeds, the Bills will have outsmarted basically all regular humans and the entirety of math itself".   Where would he be today if he listened to any of that, including, no doubt, some coaches along the way?  

So we're asking a young guy who had to have tuned out a lot of noise to get to where he is, to turn off his filter and be humble and let the coaches into his head and tell him what he needs to do (that was a problem for Josh initially, by the way.  "No coach, Favre says Touchdowns First."  Daboll screaming in his headset as a rookie and keeping up the screaming, when he didn't make the throw called for in the play).

Add in that Josh traditionally has not been the guy to get in a fellow player's grill and chew him a new one for running the route wrong or failing to haul in a catchable ball - maybe if he did that to Keon he'd "get it".

 By the way, I haven't read anyone pining for Diggs, just commenting that his talent earned him a "pass" for lateness and etc where Coleman's play to date does not.  But just in case: Diggs "went off" for 10 receptions and 146 yds against us.  He had 100+ yd game against Carolina the previous week and just recently against the hapless Jests.  The rest of the season?  14, 23, 28, 32, 38, 46, 57, 69 yds. 

I'm sure part of it is the coverage Diggs faces.  But part of it may be the "want to" level in the player's mind.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Beck Water

[Orlando Buffalo]

i keep him at least one more year unless it is hopeless because he does remind me of Eric Moulds in some ways and Moulds was not good his first two seasons but his 3rd started quite the run. It is hope more than expected at this point but he already has better numbers just so far this season than Moulds had either of his first two. 

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

i keep him at least one more year unless it is hopeless because he does remind me of Eric Moulds in some ways and Moulds was not good his first two seasons but his 3rd started quite the run. It is hope more than expected at this point but he already has better numbers just so far this season than Moulds had either of his first two. 

 

IMHO the best thing Keon could do would be to set up with Shakir and train with Eric Moulds this off season.

[jaybeezee]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

LOL sure buddy.  You wrote "There hasn't been one player that they drafted that is no longer on this team that is remotely any good, outside of Edmunds"

but
What you really meant was "there hasn't been one player they drafted that is no longer on this team that is a real STUD, an impact player at his position."

 

And it's my fault, I'm "severely reaching" for not understanding what you meant, because the words you used were not the words you meant.  Gotcha.  News flash: if the Bills didn't re-sign a stud impact player at his position, that would be a scouting and coaching failure.

 

I listed a number of players no longer with the team who see the field regularly.  Harrison Phillips - not only starting just about every game, but on team with a lot of wins.  Wyatt Teller (strangely, a guy even you seem to recognize as "remotely any good" but who disproves your statement on his own).   Cody Ford - you may not think he's good, but he's started a lot of games.  Devin Singletary - again, he had his best year in 2023 on a pass-first Houston team that went 10-4 and went to the division round that season.

 

But ya know, a lot of top coaches who won a lot seem to feel that ST matters.  Guys like Belichick.  Our own Marv Levy.  But @jaybeezee knows better, ST doesn't count even when a guy is leading the league as a punt returner or is so good at ST that multiple teams sign him just for that skill. 

Second News Flash: Teams don't sign players they don't feel are "worth anything" or not "remotely any good", whether their primary role is ST or not.

 

I don't think I need to reach here.  

 

Have a nice day, or have whatever sort of a day you consider most appropriate for you.

You must watch alot of CFL. None of those players you listed are worth a squat. Harrison Phillips plays for the Jets does he not?

 

"Harrison Phillips - not only starting just about every game, but on team with a lot of wins".

 

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

On 11/18/2025 at 9:43 AM, boater said:

I am inclined to think Coleman's abilities are what they are, and that isn't that great.

 

The guy seems to have the "Knox" problem, of being able at times to make the spectacular leaping grab, but dropping the ball that smacks him in the hands and he needs to catch in this league.  That's something Knox was able to improve, going from a mid-50% catch % his first 2 seasons to >61% since (his 3rd season was 69%).   He did it by following some eye training program that required a buttload of work and having ping-pong balls fired at him.

Shakir also went from a 50% catch % his rookie season to >75% since.  He did it in part by working with Eric Moulds who had him catch balls bare-handed, which requires more focus.

 

So that can be improved.

 

At times what I see is that the guy just doesn't hustle.  He is in no hurry when he runs his routes, including ones where he appears to be the primary target (like that  route over the middle on 2nd and 10 vs Miami that someone posted video of).  So that's within his control - is he hustling as much as he can hustle, every route?  He hasn't earned the right to "pace himself" on some routes where it's a run play or going to the opposite side of the field, and with Josh, you just can't run your route and stand there.

 

So that can be improved.

 

As far as how fast he is, that may be an "is what it is" thing, but athletes can train for burst and suddenness, which help them release cleanly and fake defenders out.  It's re-training muscle memory, and it's a lot of work, is what I understand.

 

So I'll give that a "maybe".

 

I think his main problem may be between the ears.

 

17 minutes ago, jaybeezee said:

You must watch alot of CFL. None of those players you listed are worth a squat. Harrison Phillips plays for the Jets does he not?

 

"Harrison Phillips - not only starting just about every game, but on team with a lot of wins".

 

Be better, dude.  Phillips spent his 3 year 2nd contract playing for the Vikes, including on a D that was #5 in the league in 2024.  The team was 14-3 that year.  They were 13-3 his first year with them.  I said that in my first post.  Yes, he plays for the Jets now - 4 years after the Bills let him walk.  Sorry, you don't have the #5 defense with a team that goes 14-3 if your starting NT who plays 60% of the snaps "isn't worth a squat".

 

That "you must watch a lot of CFL" crack is just weird.  Where did that even come from, coupled with your incorrect gouge.

Edited 33 minutes ago by Beck Water

[mannc]

On 11/18/2025 at 7:33 AM, SoonerBillsFan said:

He was a bad pick like Elam.  Its time to cut bait this offseason 

Totally different situation.  

[SoonerBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, mannc said:

Totally different situation.  

Bad pick is a bad pick.