4th and 17

[Marcus Aurelius]

36 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

Mahomes is like a vampire.  If you don't put a stake in his heart, he's always going to come back.  

I thought he was like a  🐸 

[Charles Romes]

Was pretty numb watching the 4th and 17 trying to process just watching Hoecht hop off done for the year - strangely didn’t care 

Edited 14 hours ago by Charles Romes

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

20 minutes ago, Billl said:

Sometimes elite players make elite plays.  When Josh pulls some insane play out of thin air, it’s not because the other coach is an idiot.  It’s because Josh is a freak.  Mahomes is pretty good.

yes, Mahomes is good…but the guy was wide open. Even Fields is making that play.

[UConn James]

13 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

To me it looked like a miscommunication.  Tre passed of Rice to no one and he was wide open.  Just a communication failure in a critical moment.  It sucked but thankfully we don’t have to hear about “4th and 17” because the Bills got the W

I went the whole first page of this thread looking for Tre White and I was like... wait... did I see an entirely different play?!

 

Yes, Tre had to drop coverage bc he just can't keep up with anyone. And he handed coverage off to... no one .... and dropped backward and away toward a guy who was already covered. Just... It was like 'if I close my eyes, Rice is not there!' I can't even anymore. 

Edited 14 hours ago by UConn James

[dhgold]

I just want to vent (and not read) so someone else has probably already said this but it seemed to me that on the 4th & 17 (and, IIRC, a similar situation earlier in the game), the Bills went into a prevent defense with minimal to no pass rush, and given all day, Mahomes was able to wait for someone to come open.

 

When the Bills had pressure on Mahomes, he didn't do so well.

[PoundingDog]

3 minutes ago, ALLinALLEN said:

Yep. Calls TO and still the guy is naked. The "scheme" he deploys is broken at some threshold. 

Someone made a mistake. Plain and Simple. Generally speaking you look for their best players and that would be Kelce and Rice. Someone did not keep up with Rice which leads me to believe it is a zone defense call and someone just jumped the wrong guy.

 

Now it is 4th and 17 so a long developing play. Bosa hesitated and thought it might be a screen. Mistake #2.

 

I feel like they kind of learned from it in the last play where they know it is a hail mary but went after Mahomes, forcing him to not set for that last throw, way short of the end zone (had a Chiefs caught the ball, it would not matter either). I would dial up the blitz on 4th 17 instead of rushing 3, getting Hirston back there on Worthy.

[billsbackto81]

39 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

Mahomes is like a vampire.  If you don't put a stake in his heart, he's always going to come back.  

I was thinking cockroach 🪳 

[JohnNord]

3 minutes ago, UConn James said:

I went the whole first page of this thread looking for Tre White and I was like... wait... did I see an entirely different play?!

 

Yes, Tre had to drop coverage bc he just can't keep up with anyone. And he handed coverage off to... no one .... and dropped backward and away toward a guy who was already covered. Just... It was like 'if I close my eyes, Rice is not there!' I can't even anymore. 

I’m not sure who was to blame.  Was it Tre of the safety who was supposed to pick him up?  Either way he was wide freaking open.  

[ALLinALLEN]

3 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Someone made a mistake. Plain and Simple. Generally speaking you look for their best players and that would be Kelce and Rice. Someone did not keep up with Rice which leads me to believe it is a zone defense call and someone just jumped the wrong guy.

 

Now it is 4th and 17 so a long developing play. Bosa hesitated and thought it might be a screen. Mistake #2.

 

I feel like they kind of learned from it in the last play where they know it is a hail mary but went after Mahomes, forcing him to not set for that last throw, way short of the end zone (had a Chiefs caught the ball, it would not matter either). I would dial up the blitz on 4th 17 instead of rushing 3, getting Hirston back there on Worthy.

Sure but if we are calling a TO and then the next play one of their studs is wide open then wtf is going on with the scheme and plan there

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

Plays like this make me think the game is fixed. It made for great television and a compelling finish.

 

[Chaos]

If the Chiefs had punted, and the Bills fumbled and the Chiefs recovered at the exact spot the pass went to, It is almost certain McDermott would have gone on to call out terrible turnovers are.  If you believe calling the time out is the direct cause of the 4th and 17 conversion, then you equate it exactly to a turnover.  Mistakes are why you can have a game with Josh Allen having one of the highest completion rates of his career.  The offense has zero turnoevers. Mahomes has the lowest completion rate of his career, and the game somehow manages to come down to the last play of the game with it still in question. 

[May Day 10]

37 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

Alls i know is without the timeout, Mahomes was flinging it up for grabs under duress with very little hope. But there was a timeout by McD. After the timeout, the Chiefs had figured out how to get their WR1 WFO beyond the line to gain, because their coaches are good. It was exactly 13-seconds reprised.

 

This

There was immense pressure on the offense and mahomes was on the ropes.  I actually figured it was a chiefs timeout.

 

McDermott gave them a chance to take a breath, regroup, and Andy Reid scheme.  Then the bills defense looked unorganized which is what a timeout is supposed to prevent in the first place.

 

 

[nedboy7]

The mistake on the 4th and 17 was explained on the first page. Not the coaches fault.  There was plenty to be irritated at other than that. 

[Kirby Jackson]

30 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Not true. McDermotts defense stopped KC after 1 timeout 

 

And you want to say Mcd Sucked after holding Mahomes, a 1st ballot HOF to <50% compl rate first time in his career?

 

Weird "flex", id tell your brother to listen up to the facts

My brother was a college QB and HS coach. He sees things that I don’t.

 

Either way, 4 defensive TOs followed by 3 1st downs isn’t the flex you think it is. That’s especially true because one was 4th and 17. Again, amazing win but that specific part isn’t a good look. They’ve been bad on 3rd and 4th down. 

[MasterStrategist]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

My brother was a college QB and HS coach. He sees things that I don’t.

 

Either way, 4 defensive TOs followed by 3 1st downs isn’t the flex you think it is. That’s especially true because one was 4th and 17. Again, amazing win but that specific part isn’t a good look. They’ve been bad on 3rd and 4th down. 

Same, I've coached.  This was our best performance of our secondary to date.

 

To say Mcd "sucked", like you did, is complete BS.  

 

We had a key stop after a TO, on 4th down, then gave up the 4th and 17. 

 

Reid will go down as the best OC/playcaller of all time - and somehow when we hold Mahomes <50% and give up just 21 points to an offense thats been rolling , is somehow bad?

 

Yeah QB and coach, somehow means ehat you say is important.  McD just called the best defensive gameplan of his career today

[Kirby Jackson]

25 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Same, I've coached.  This was our best performance of our secondary to date.

 

To say Mcd "sucked", like you did, is complete BS.  

 

We had a key stop after a TO, on 4th down, then gave up the 4th and 17. 

 

Reid will go down as the best OC/playcaller of all time - and somehow when we hold Mahomes <50% and give up just 21 points to an offense thats been rolling , is somehow bad?

 

Yeah QB and coach, somehow means ehat you say is important.  McD just called the best defensive gameplan of his career today

Agree that it was our best defensive performance. He called a great game. I think he sucks as a HC and I have thought that for a while. I hope he proves me wrong but to date, the KC playoffs are too much for me. 
 

The Bills were prepared today and have played a great few weeks. I’m well past accepting a division title and a playoff win or 2. He hasn’t been good, at all, vs. KC when it matters. That’s the standard that I hold him to. Getting beat is one thing, being at your worst is another.

Edited 13 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[MasterStrategist]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Agree that it was our best defensive performance. He called a great game. I think he sucks as a HC and I have thought that for a while. I hope he proves me wrong but to date, the KC playoffs are too much for me. 
 

The Bills were prepared today and have played a great few weeks. I’m well past accepting a division title and a playoff win or 2. He hasn’t been good, at all, vs. KC when it matters. That’s he standard that I hold him to. Getting beat is one thing, being at your worst is another.

So again to repeat, you say " mCD sucked" today...now admitting he called a great game.

 

Which is it?  I think you are letting past emotions get in the way. 

 

Go Bills - one family here but really tired of fans letting their emotions cloud actual peeformance

[Olliemets]

I watched the game with my son and 15-month-old Grandson. He needed help as his wife had to scramble to get a flight out of town today. So, I hopped in the car and drove the hour to his house.

 

Nice day for just the guys watching football. My son laughs because I get so down on McDermotts D, the D Time-outs, etc

 

I used very "colorful" language after the 4th and 17 play in front of the toddler🤣

My son reminded me..."Dad, it's Mahomes".

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

So again to repeat, you say " mCD sucked" today...now admitting he called a great game.

 

Which is it?  I think you are letting past emotions get in the way. 

 

Go Bills - one family here but really tired of fans letting their emotions cloud actual peeformance

I said, “he still sucks.” I said nothing about “today.” No negative emotions from me. I’m thrilled.
 

McDermott calling the defense has them in a much better place. They have looked prepared the last 2 weeks. He uses terrible defensive timeouts and they struggle on 3rd & 4th down. He’s been horrendous vs. KC in the playoffs. All of that is true. 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, MikePJ76 said:

4th and 17 doesn't matter now.  We don't have to talk about it or hear about it again.  

The Bills won.  

Regurgitates 13 seconds