Joe B (The Athletic) on passing game problems (with data)

[Pete]

8 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

And yet we made the AFC championship, so one of the best 4 teams in the league, we sucked /sarcasm

And how did it end?  Josh getting clobbered and Dalton dropping the ball.  Twice the defense made stops, giving the Bills offense two drives to beat the Chiefs.  Bills passing game faltered, and was 0-2.

 

2023 same *****.  D made a stop to give Bills offense to beat the Chiefs, and the Bills passing offense faltered.  We lose to Chiefs again.  Two years in a row, Bills died with their offense.

 

Id like to see a much better Bills  playoff passing game, more smooth, more clutch.  Wouldn’t you?

[The Jokeman]

7 minutes ago, first_and_ten said:

 

What open targets did Josh miss? 

I'm pretty sure JA17 missed an open target, maybe Cook on 3rd down which would have moved the chains instead went to Shakir for a TD which missed and settled for FG attempt. Last year he missed Kincaid as not a great pass.

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

And how did it end?  Josh getting clobbered and Dalton dropping the ball.  Twice the defense made stops, giving the Bills offense two drives to beat the Chiefs.  Bills passing game faltered, and was 0-2.

 

2023 same *****.  D made a stop to give Bills offense to beat the Chiefs, and the Bills passing offense faltered.  We lose to Chiefs again.  Two years in a row, Bills died with their offense.

 

Id like to see a much better Bills  playoff passing game, more smooth, more clutch.  Wouldn’t you?

I would but I also understand that playing guys out of position not maximizing their abilities. People love Andre Reed and called him best slot WR in his era. Would he be a HOFer if played him in James Lofton's position on the outside? I doubt it.

Edited 2 hours ago by The Jokeman

[Royale with Cheese]

I was sitting Madden view and those safety's cheat in.

 

The outside is wide open.  The back shoulder is the perfect play or just going over the top.

Unfortunately Coleman can't battle for the back shoulder and can only make a play deep if it's a broken play.

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I'm pretty sure JA17 missed an open target, maybe Cook on 3rd down which would have moved the chains instead went to Shakir for a TD which missed and settled for FG attempt. Last year he missed Kincaid as not a great pass.

I would but I also understand that playing guys out of position not maximizing their abilities. 

Beane says your last game will tell you what your biggest need is.  A stud WR would have helped Bills beat the Chiefs the last two playoff meetings.  Evidently Beane doesn’t follow his own beliefs 

5 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I'm pretty sure JA17 missed an open target, maybe Cook on 3rd down which would have moved the chains instead went to Shakir for a TD which missed and settled for FG attempt. Last year he missed Kincaid as not a great pass.

I would but I also understand that playing guys out of position not maximizing their abilities. 

James Cook would of been pretty smart on those drives too 

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Pete said:

Beane says your last game will tell you what your biggest need is.  A stud WR would have helped Bills beat the Chiefs the last two playoff meetings.  Evidently Beane doesn’t follow his own beliefs 

He signed Palmer who was one of better WR available. Who do you think could have got that fit the position and cap? Not like he didn't try. *Smh*

[SCBills]

Get Brady out of here.  He seems to be in CYA mode now.  
 

What is this?  Oh, we can pass down big in the 4th Quarter.  Cool. 
 

 

[4th&long]

7 hours ago, BearNorth said:

In what universe would you pay your franchise QB $55MM per year to be a "game manager"

The bills universe

[Pete]

Just now, The Jokeman said:

He signed Palmer who was one of better WR available. Who do you think could have got that fit the position and cap? Not like he didn't try. *Smh*

Simple Math.  Our 2 best WR not named Shakir left.  We added Palmer.

 

5-2=3.  3+1=4.  What happened with our #1 WR?  Post draft we had only 4 viable WR.  Moore was a late signing from the scrap heap.  Beane signed Moore after he angrily decreed that Bills WR were great, they didn’t need any.

 

Simple Math *SMH* right back at you buddy 

[Comebackkid]

5 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

just as an example, Here are two plays from yesterday where Josh could have given Coleman the ball with easy throws.  He went to hawes on the play action and threw it deep for no reason to shavers.  Coleman is open on both plays and if he gets the ball he probably makes nice plays there.  Little plays like this add up.  I think he should be given opportunties like these.

 

Here is the play action that went to hawes.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ExuPj1d502A&feature=youtu.be

 

and here is the curl route where coleman looks pretty open and then after the scramble is even more open.  He never gets the ball.

 

 

the first one looked like it was a one read option to the side line and the 2nd watching it originally i felt he just got in to 

big of hurry but i think this has been a theme lately.  everyone complaining no ones open but you see qbs every week making 

tight window throws, its part of the game.   i think it was buffalo rumblings that tore into josh pretty good saying he reverted back to his rookie year on some things.

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Get Brady out of here.  He seems to be in CYA mode now.  
 

What is this?  Oh, we can pass down big in the 4th Quarter.  Cool. 
 

 

Brady needs a reality check.    

[Mat68]

1 minute ago, first_and_ten said:

 

What open targets did Josh miss? 

Corner route to Moore sailed out of bounds  Coleman and Kincaid sitting down in the hole of the zone at different levels.  Ball ended up between them.  Those are two viewable on Tv.  Allen had a C game.  No bad plays beside the sack.  A few misses but overall did what was required to win the game.  When Cook was getting 8-10 a carry it was pretty obvious where the play calling needed to go.  40 point and Allen did next to nothing is great.  Is he capable of more?  Yes.  Is the passing game capable of more?  I think so.  When matchup dictates I would use Cook more in the passing attack when the running game is stymied.  

[BananaB]

56 minutes ago, Pete said:

Our running game is Super Bowl worthy.  Our defense is refortified, Larry O, Hoecht, and Max are HUGE additions.  I believe the defense is now good enough to win the Super Bowl.

 

Our passing offense today is not Super Bowl worthy. Everyone has theories why it’s broken, but we agree it’s broken.  How does an Offense with Josh, Cook, great OL, solid TEs, and a great slot receiver, how in the world is that passing offense broken?

You think we are gonna face Andy Dalton in January and February?  Be *****  nice. 

[Pete]

51 minutes ago, Avisan said:

He literally doesn't even think about "us", as well he shouldn't 

Is Joe Brady the major problem with the offense?  

1. Is Joe Brady holding back the Bills offense?

Yes

 135

No

 65

[3rdand12]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

I mentioned that exact play during the game.  11 seconds and not a single receiving option can get open.

I gotta call out Coaching here. and it is something I have noticed. WRs need to count to 4 and look back to Josh. If the ball isn't out they need to help him and come back directly or angle back to the sideline !!

Even my grandkids know to come back for the ball or move and wave for the ball as they run to space. They are 10 and 8 years old.

[Einstein]

31 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

  The back shoulder is the perfect play or just going over the top.

Unfortunately Coleman can't battle for the back shoulder and can only make a play deep if it's a broken play.

 

He’s a WR who can’t run fast and also can’t  body people and also can’t do back shoulder fades.

 

Why is he even on the field at this point?

[Avisan]

8 minutes ago, Pete said:

Is Joe Brady the major problem with the offense?  

1. Is Joe Brady holding back the Bills offense?

Yes

 135

No

 65

If fan polls on TBD ever influence how a OBD employee seriously feels about their job performance, that person needs to be fired immediately 

[3rdand12]

16 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Corner route to Moore sailed out of bounds  Coleman and Kincaid sitting down in the hole of the zone at different levels.  Ball ended up between them.  Those are two viewable on Tv.  Allen had a C game.  No bad plays beside the sack.  A few misses but overall did what was required to win the game.  When Cook was getting 8-10 a carry it was pretty obvious where the play calling needed to go.  40 point and Allen did next to nothing is great.  Is he capable of more?  Yes.  Is the passing game capable of more?  I think so.  When matchup dictates I would use Cook more in the passing attack when the running game is stymied.  

Josh was not pleased with himself missing an open Moore. Was listening to the radio for that play.

 Allen likely was so excited someone actually got open he put too much on it lol !

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

He’s a WR who can’t run fast and also can’t  body people and also can’t do back shoulder fades.

 

Why is he even on the field at this point?

he has long speed.

He just cant get himself in the right spots to win his matchup. 

Very very frustrating for all

[Einstein]

7 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Josh was not pleased with himself missing an open Moore. Was listening to the radio for that play.

 

 Allen likely was so excited someone actually got open he put too much on it

 

That was my impression too. He rushed the throw because he couldn’t believe a WR was actually running free.

[3rdand12]

26 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

That was my impression too. He rushed the throw because he couldn’t believe a WR was actually running free.

As I mentioned I was driving with one of my Grand daughters and only heard the radio call.

But have seen that from him before. We all know Josh so wants to hit that home run in the pass game.

It will come.

 But Brady needs to help him with that.

Palmer coming back might raise the percentage of a few home run passes

Thanks !

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

The 20-year-old said he received a text from Allen on Friday, before he was drafted that said (via the team's official website), "You're the guy that I want. I watched a lot of receivers and I want to play with you."

 

 

Again, this is what you would expect from Allen who at that moment in time knew that the Bills were drafting Coleman.  It's the classy and constructive thing to do but doesn't support the idea that Allen facilitated this pick over any others.  I am convinced that if Bean had shown Allen tape of McConkey and then told Allen that was who they were drafting Allen would also have been supportive and sent Ladd a text before the official selection.

 

Do you really think Allen would have said "hell no, I want Coleman" if Bean went up to him before the draft and told him the Bills were going to try to jump up in the 1st round to grab one of the stud WR's that were available?

 

 

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Again, this is what you would expect from Allen who at that moment in time knew that the Bills were drafting Coleman.  It's the classy and constructive thing to do but doesn't support the idea that Allen facilitated this pick over any others.  I am convinced that if Bean had shown Allen tape of McConkey and then told Allen that was who they were drafting Allen would also have been supportive and sent Ladd a text before the official selection.

 

Do you really think Allen would have said "hell no, I want Coleman" if Bean went up to him before the draft and told him the Bills were going to try to jump up in the 1st round to grab one of the stud WR's that were available?

 

 

There's other articles that literally say Josh Allen watched film with the coaches while talking perspective prospects 

 

He certainly saw lad McConkey Xavier worthy and all of them

 

Unless Brandon Bean is lying saying that Josh watched film with coaches talking about potential players

 

Not every team wants to trade with you every time you want to make a trade either it takes two to tango

 

Edited 51 minutes ago by Buffalo716