Defense - could be good

[Rockinon]

36 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

The DLine is pretty damn good. Behind them, not so much. But a good DLine can make everyone better. Just like the OL can. The 2 new guys will hopefully make a real impact. 

This is what could turn things around for the defense. The reinforcements on the DLine could make an all ready good front four very dominant. And that will cover up many weaknesses on the back end.

[Brand J]

41 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

But a good DLine can make everyone better.

Only if the back 7 start to play more aggressively. If they continue to give these soft cushions then it doesn’t matter if/when someone on the line gets immediate pressure. The QB will have an easy outlet, it’s like pitch and catch. 

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, Deadstroke said:

I’ve followed these boards for a long time but hardly ever post.  However, at this time I just feel a push to give my opinion on a controversial subject – who plays on the D, and can it develop into a championship unit.  I feel that we potentially have a very strong defense. If all goes well (a major hope on my part) I believe that we could have a defense, coupled with a strong offense, to carry us a long way in the playoffs.

 

This is what I’d like to see within, more or less, the following 3 or 4 weeks.

 

Defensive ends

Starters …Joey Bosa – Greg Rousseau; Backups...A. J. Epenesa – Michael Hoecht

Defensive tackles

Starters…Ed Oliver – Deone Walker; Backups...DaQuan Jones – Larry Ogunjobi

Linebackers

Starters...Terrel Bernard –Matt Milano; Backups...Dorian Wiiliams – Shaq Thompson

Slot

Starter…Tyron Johnson – Backup - Cam Lewis

Corners

Starters…Maxwell Hairston – Christian Benford…Backups...Tre White - Cam Lewis

Safeties

Starters…Cole Bishop – Jordan Hancock… Backups...Jordan Poyer – Taylor Rapp

 

Problem is a bunch of them are injured and can’t stay healthy when they recover.  I love Milano, but he is sadly breaking down, Hairston may eventually be good but he isn’t healthy and has missed basically everything to this point.  Dorian Williams seems to have difficulty staying healthy too.  Without Hairston, CB is bleak and without Milano and Williams LB is a problem too.  We also don’t know how Ogunjobi and Hecht will play after missing so much time and without the benefit of PEDS.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I feel like I am missing the original post in this thread. It just starts with our normal injury list.

[Kornfed]

D looked pretty good in the 2nd half against the Falcons. I should know the reason for that but I don’t. What did they do differently? The two half’s were like night n day. That being said, they often seem to be too slow in the adjustment process. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Kornfed

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Wade Philips walks in the building with the exact players we have and we are a top 10 unit by December. It’s not the players…it’s the zone and it’s the nickel 

I was absolutely flamed (by a mod nonetheless) for saying this 3 weeks ago. Tarron Johnson isn’t good. We can’t stop the run because we insist on staying in the nickel defense but we can’t stop

the pass because our nickel defense sucks. What is the point? Put 3 LBs on the field.  This isn’t working. If you need 7 on the field, move him to safety 

Hmm yes and no.  Phillips was a 3-4 guy if I remember, a couple of moves and we could do it.

 

Now Schwartz on the other hand...

[Alphadawg7]

I think a lot of people underestimate the impact of missing so many guys that were assumed to be important to the D or even amongst our best guys.

• Oliver, Milano, and Bernard have all missed relevant time.  Arguably expected to be 3 of our better players.
• Max has missed the whole season so far, our first round pick expected to at least contribute early, if not already be starting by now.
• Both our FA signings on the DL are both expected to be heavily involved in our rotation up front but have missed the whole season on suspension thus far.

So I do think our defense can, and should, be better once we get more of these guys on the field at the same time.  I think its fair to add in that Walker seems to be getting even better each week too and his minutes and impact should also rise.  

 

Now - all that being said, I don't trust Babich at all, and I think a lot of our struggles even with the guys out falls on him too.  So if we don't see a noticeable difference once we start getting all these guys back on the field, then I think McD needs to take over the play calling duties.  

[Peace Frog]

4 hours ago, Deadstroke said:

I’ve followed these boards for a long time but hardly ever post.  However, at this time I just feel a push to give my opinion on a controversial subject – who plays on the D, and can it develop into a championship unit.  I feel that we potentially have a very strong defense. If all goes well (a major hope on my part) I believe that we could have a defense, coupled with a strong offense, to carry us a long way in the playoffs.

 

This is what I’d like to see within, more or less, the following 3 or 4 weeks.

 

Defensive ends

Starters …Joey Bosa – Greg Rousseau; Backups...A. J. Epenesa – Michael Hoecht

Defensive tackles

Starters…Ed Oliver – Deone Walker; Backups...DaQuan Jones – Larry Ogunjobi

Linebackers

Starters...Terrel Bernard –Matt Milano; Backups...Dorian Wiiliams – Shaq Thompson

Slot

Starter…Tyron Johnson – Backup - Cam Lewis

Corners

Starters…Maxwell Hairston – Christian Benford…Backups...Tre White - Cam Lewis

Safeties

Starters…Cole Bishop – Jordan Hancock… Backups...Jordan Poyer – Taylor Rapp

 

Let's get real.  Here's a realistic assessment of the defense with no Bills-colored glasses.

 

Joey Bosa - Decent pass rush, average run stop

Groot - Avg PR, avg RS

AJ Ep - Avg PR, avg RS

Hoecht - Unknown

Ed O - Decent PR, decent RS

D W - Avg PR, decent RS

DQ J - Poor PR, avg RS, injury liability

Larry O - ?

T Bern - Decent run stop, decent pass coverage, injury liability

Milano - Our best defender, terrible injury liability

D Will - Avg RS, Below avg PC; injury liability

Shaq T - Good RS, avg PC

Taron - Not up to par of past seasons; injury liability

Cam - Avg PC, below avg run support

Max - ?; possible injury liability

Benford - avg PC, avg RS, injury liabiity

Tre - shell of former self; liability in coverage and injury waiting to happen

Cole - looks lost at times or out of place; injury liability

Hancock - ?

Poyer - slow vet with hot wife

Rapp - liability across the board

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Peace Frog

[Chaos]

4 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

The DLine is pretty damn good. Behind them, not so much. But a good DLine can make everyone better. Just like the OL can. The 2 new guys will hopefully make a real impact. 

what do you mean by "pretty damn good".  Run stuffing? Getting after the passer? 

[Success]

I think our personnel is better than they're playing - on both sides.

 

Why don't we have actual coordinators?  It's something I'll never really understand.

 

[BillsFanForever19]

5 hours ago, Deadstroke said:

I’ve followed these boards for a long time but hardly ever post.  However, at this time I just feel a push to give my opinion on a controversial subject – who plays on the D, and can it develop into a championship unit.  I feel that we potentially have a very strong defense. If all goes well (a major hope on my part) I believe that we could have a defense, coupled with a strong offense, to carry us a long way in the playoffs.

 

This is what I’d like to see within, more or less, the following 3 or 4 weeks.

 

Defensive ends

Starters …Joey Bosa – Greg Rousseau; Backups...A. J. Epenesa – Michael Hoecht

Defensive tackles

Starters…Ed Oliver – Deone Walker; Backups...DaQuan Jones – Larry Ogunjobi

Linebackers

Starters...Terrel Bernard –Matt Milano; Backups...Dorian Wiiliams – Shaq Thompson

Slot

Starter…Tyron Johnson – Backup - Cam Lewis

Corners

Starters…Maxwell Hairston – Christian Benford…Backups...Tre White - Cam Lewis

Safeties

Starters…Cole Bishop – Jordan Hancock… Backups...Jordan Poyer – Taylor Rapp

 

 

Max Hairston will take weeks before he starts, if he does. Jordan Hancock is an unknown.

 

What something looks like on paper means nothing. And honestly, this isn't really any different than what we've had on field all season. And we've seen what it's brought us. A lot of these players aren't carrying the caché that their name implies.

Edited 3 hours ago by BillsFanForever19

[BillsFanForever19]

4 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

The DLine is pretty damn good. Behind them, not so much. But a good DLine can make everyone better. Just like the OL can. The 2 new guys will hopefully make a real impact. 

 

Not if the soft coverage scheme compounded by poor execution of it means the ball is out of the QB's hand and completed to a WR before they can get home.

 

Pass rush metrics for Bosa are very good this season. But it's not resulting in Sacks bc of the coverage situation.

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, bubba2018 said:

The problem with the defense is that no one is all that good. We need to pray the Kentucky boys show out because how those 2 develop over the course of the 3 months could really determine how the rest of the season goes defensively 

My favorite coach always said..  that champions are made when nobody is looking 

 

If hoecht and ogunjobi and Maxwell are preparing hard and working hard and taking mental reps seriously.. adding 3 talented players will obviously help

 

 

[HOUSE]

I could be rich 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

3 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Hmm yes and no.  Phillips was a 3-4 guy if I remember, a couple of moves and we could do it.

 

Now Schwartz on the other hand...

You know what I mean. I was going to list 5 guys I was just saying…a good DC and we are fine 

[gregmo]

3 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Hmm yes and no.  Phillips was a 3-4 guy if I remember, a couple of moves and we could do it.

 

Now Schwartz on the other hand...

I'm good with either - it really can't get that much worse.  Wade did get the shaft when he was here.  I don't get the Flutie decision but it was a forward lateral in the Tennessee game.

[NeverOutNick]

6 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Might be time for Lewis to step in for Taron.

I definitely wouldn’t go this far but maybe more 4-3 with Shaq playing more. Taron has showed up in big moments I won’t totally bail on him yet 

[BillsFanForever19]

40 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

I definitely wouldn’t go this far but maybe more 4-3 with Shaq playing more. Taron has showed up in big moments I won’t totally bail on him yet 

 

Definitely agree that Thompson should be starting at OLB until Milano proves to be 105% If there's even a remote question as to whether Milano's a hundo - give him another week off.

 

I think this is Taron's last year. He's been regressing since last season. Much like many guys on our Defense, he's a shadow of the guy we saw 2-3 years ago. 

 

That said, pulling him for Cam Lewis? Yeah, no way. That isn't upgrading us. Play to play he's got about the same floor as Taron, but Taron's for a much higher ceiling. Even now.

 

I fear there's really no saving this Defense. There's some small personnel things you can do. But they feel like band aids on a gaping wound.