Josh Allen Played Most Undisciplined Game in Three years Against Falcons-- Jim Kubiak BN

[hondo in seattle]

43 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Josh has one of the best Olines in the league, one of the best running backs, and some solid role pieces in Kincaid and Shakir.   Yes, they desperately need a #1 wideout.  But Quarterbacks have done much better with less.  

 

Watching the OL these past two games, do you really believe we have one of the Olines in the league?  

[Allen2Moulds]

Yes, agreed Josh played a poor game.  

That being said, it's the why that we have to look at.

Every QB misses reads, and the better ones miss less.  But as a whole, we had a poor game plan going in, and as Joe Marino points out, the Falcons have a small but fast front.  You exploit that with power football, which we started to do in the second half.  Just like in the Baltimore game last year, we try to get cute on a 3rd and short and give back all the momentum we had.  We had an opportunity to really put them on their heels and get back on track, when we try a stupid end around with Moore.  You beat speed with size and power, and you counter size/power with speed.  They had no answers for the run.  You either try power up the middle with Josh or Cook, and keep running until they stop you.  Cook was getting some nice chunks when we started going to him, and once the Falcons over commit, than we hit them with the pass.  

With all the blitzing, I also don't understand why we didn't max protect more.  If we're already using heavy sets to run, wouldn't we want to stay in that same set to max protect, to allow more time for our receivers to get open.  Atlanta was getting instant pressure on Josh.  When you can apply that kind of pressure on a QB, their internal clock gets totally messed up, and then all that what is being described is the end result.

Fix the protection issues, and everything will fall into place.

Edited Thursday at 07:07 PM by Allen2Moulds

[Avisan]

3 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

Lol. There’s screenshots above. Unless I’ve just used AI to generate them? 
 

Check the all-22 yourself. 
 

You aren’t going to have guys open every single play of the game. Let alone multiple guys. Sometimes it’s only one and the QB has to find him. Every screen shot above (with the exception of the run play) there is a receiver open… again. Every. Single. Screen shot. 

People here have also lost track of the notion of "NFL open".

 

In the NFL, you will often have a very narrow window to fit the ball into.  How many plays do we see every week where a QB hits a tight window pass into a window barely large enough to get the ball to through to the receiver?  Or where there isn't really a window AT ALL but the throw is in front of the receiver's knees so they can go down and get it?  Or a back shoulder throw? Etc.

 

We have been spoiled by years of incredible plays by Allen, to the point that we've forgotten what it's like to put together an NFL-average offense doing the dirty work with the talent equivalent of spit, duct tape, and a prayer.

 

When you have a 55+ million dollar QB, he needs to play like that QB or your team is probably screwed.  Part of earning that much money is making plays to NFL-open receivers where the windows are extremely small.

[Sojourner]

4 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I'm not saying it, I'm saying analysts saw it.  Does not make him a quitter to be frusturated.  

 

a lot of the sack screenshots, the WR is open, but that's at the time of the sack.  When the pocket is collapsing and right before is when the WR needs to be open, a lot of those sacks he held onto the ball for a long time, and the analysist comments were that no one was open.  

🤦‍♂️

 

Oh boy. There’s pressure sure. But a guy like Josh has the ability to literally read the field in one or two seconds. On top of that he knows the play, his hot route or release on the concept. 
 

The first sack, the one by Ruke I can give you as that is on the other side of the field where the open man is. 
 

The third down one? It’s right in front of him, 2 guys. A wheel and a dig. The latter is picking up 5-6 yards minimum. The wheel route? Who knows. That could be a house call. 
 

Your bolded words are indicative of a problem that’s creeping up again. Josh holding the ball too long. Sure it’s down to personnel not being consistently open but that’s a tough task to ask man… there isn’t an elite/all-pro guy out there running routes. However, there was guys open at several points throughout the game, the question or problem is whether Josh saw them. 
 

[90sBills]

25 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

 

Critiquing Josh for having a bad game is treated like a cardinal sin. 
 

Facts are facts. Josh didn’t play great. That doesn’t diminish his talents or capabilities and why people treat pointing out such is absurd. 
 

Pointing out he played bad also doesn’t equate to trading him as some have absurdly insinuated.

 

Great post!

[Governor]

3 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Watching the OL these past two games, do you really believe we have one of the Olines in the league?  

Definitely not top 5. They came back down to earth and that’s another problem now. The 2 tackles are apparently the issue now. Interior line seems to be adequate.

[Casey D]

2 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

🤦‍♂️

 

Oh boy. There’s pressure sure. But a guy like Josh has the ability to literally read the field in one or two seconds. On top of that he knows the play, his hot route or release on the concept. 
 

The first sack, the one by Ruke I can give you as that is on the other side of the field where the open man is. 
 

The third down one? It’s right in front of him, 2 guys. A wheel and a dig. The latter is picking up 5-6 yards minimum. The wheel route? Who knows. That could be a house call. 
 

Your bolded words are indicative of a problem that’s creeping up again. Josh holding the ball too long. Sure it’s down to personnel not being consistently open but that’s a tough task to ask man… there isn’t an elite/all-pro guy out there running routes. However, there was guys open at several points throughout the game, the question or problem is whether Josh saw them. 
 

You will not convince certain people.  The narrative is that others failed to be open etc., or, if Josh played poorly, it is because his mind is addled by the horrible team around him.  But no matter, he had a bad game, and he has had bad games before.  It does not mean he will continue to play poorly, wants to move to San Franciso, or is complacent because he has a wife.  It's just one fuc*ing game!

[Steptide]

I didn't read the article, so maybe it was mentioned, but I definitely noticed Josh was making checks at the line alot less Monday night. That may be partially due to being an away game and crowd noise, but he seemed to be alot less engaged at the LOS than normal. I'm not saying he was checked out, just that he didn't seem to be reading the defense as much as normal

[corta765]

I figured he played bad. Pats game he actually was good minus the one INT which he even said was a bad throw by him. The remainder of the night was a lot of WTF are you guys doing stuff for him from turnovers to penalties. His face when Coleman fumbled after they had just got the ball back was "you gotta be kidding this isn't going as planned". 

 

ATL though he looked like he was forcing it. That miss to Johnson never happens with him and at that point I was like "yea he is not in his norm tonight". I do think the pressure ATL got through bothered him and it reminded me of the Pats 2023 game where it was just chaos and he wouldn't take what was given to him. The parts around him were also not great, but he had one of his revert to 2019 games which happens once a year.

 

Bigger thing to me still is get a WR in that can diversify the offense and help a bit more. I don't know if the defense can get any better then middle of the road, but I do think with a quality WR addition on the outside the offense can go from very good to elite.

Time will tell.

[Sojourner]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

i mean one of the sacks you can see what happens, right? shakir at the top is open but he can't get to him because of the weakside blitz

 

so i guess we can blame a bad protection call there, sure. can we also talk about Shavers and Coleman basically running into each other on the crossers underneath which appear to be his second read? or do we just want to say bad QB play?

You’re right, that is a tough throw to make but there is a guy open there. Would be tough. I’ve acknowledged that in another post, however the play is there to an open guy (when all I hear is no one’s open). 

It also seems you’re dead set Josh was a minimal problem. That’s fine. He rarely is ever THE problem but he certainly was A problem against Atlanta. 
 

And just like your initial screenshot, you’re cherry picking something in the same timeframe to dismiss Josh making an error. 
 

I played football for 13 years. Shavers and Coleman aren’t running into each other there dude, there’s at least a yard between their depths. That’s a pick on one defender if anything. On top of that, in the same screenshot you have a guy wide open in the flat running a wheel route. 
 

I am highlighting there was bad QB play… that’s it. If you’re twisting it as I am saying it’s solely on Josh then there initial post you replied to asking for receipts you must have misunderstood. 
 

Quote

“Not a lot was good, if any, against the Falcons but we did in fact lose a game because of Josh; not Josh alone but he played a significant part”

 

[Captain Hindsight]

Josh never looked comfortable, made decisions like it was 2019 and generally sucked. It’s so rare he has a bad game that I don’t even worry about it. 
 

If it continues for 3-4 games in a row, then I’ll be worried. Otherwise, it’s just a bad night at the office 

[IBTG81]

I think Josh knew we had to get into a shootout to win because the defense couldn’t stop Atlanta for anything. That forced him to try and score quickly and play more hero ball than usual.  
Jeff Ullbrich is really good against Josh. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

1 minute ago, Sojourner said:

🤦‍♂️

 

Oh boy. There’s pressure sure. But a guy like Josh has the ability to literally read the field in one or two seconds. On top of that he knows the play, his hot route or release on the concept. 
 

The first sack, the one by Ruke I can give you as that is on the other side of the field where the open man is. 
 

The third down one? It’s right in front of him, 2 guys. A wheel and a dig. The latter is picking up 5-6 yards minimum. The wheel route? Who knows. That could be a house call. 
 

Your bolded words are indicative of a problem that’s creeping up again. Josh holding the ball too long. Sure it’s down to personnel not being consistently open but that’s a tough task to ask man… there isn’t an elite/all-pro guy out there running routes. However, there was guys open at several points throughout the game, the question or problem is whether Josh saw them. 
 

 

I'm curious on the 3rd down play. I'm not an X's and O's guy, but I see the Falcons rushed 5 guys and 2 of them were un-blocked. How do the 5 guys on our O-Line only manage to block 3 defenders? Did Josh make a bad pre-snap read? Did the O-Line (with McGovern injured on the sideline) botch the play? 

 

By the time Josh moves on to the Shakir read there's 2 unblocked defenders coming in at full speed on him from a few yards out. If he makes the throw to Shakir he's probably taking a huge hit. Should he have started with that read based on pre-snap stuff? 

[Casey D]

2 minutes ago, IBTG81 said:

I think Josh knew we had to get into a shootout to win because the defense couldn’t stop Atlanta for anything. That forced him to try and score quickly and play more hero ball than usual.  
Jeff Ullbrich is really good against Josh. 

But it was not a shootout.  Offense had the ball several times when the score was 21-14.  A TD and the game is tied.  In all those situations, the O did jack.  Getting 25 points is not winning a shootout.  14 points and you usually lose.  Pretty simple.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Sojourner said:

You’re right, that is a tough throw to make but there is a guy open there. Would be tough. I’ve acknowledged that in another post, however the play is there to an open guy (when all I hear is no one’s open). 

It also seems you’re dead set Josh was a minimal problem. That’s fine. He rarely is ever THE problem but he certainly was A problem against Atlanta. 
 

And just like your initial screenshot, you’re cherry picking something in the same timeframe to dismiss Josh making an error. 
 

I played football for 13 years. Shavers and Coleman aren’t running into each other there dude, there’s at least a yard between their depths. That’s a pick on one defender if anything. On top of that, in the same screenshot you have a guy wide open in the flat running a wheel route. 
 

I am highlighting there was bad QB play… that’s it. If you’re twisting it as I am saying it’s solely on Josh then there initial post you replied to asking for receipts you must have misunderstood. 
 

 

I get it, and again- we are seeing the same things. I'm just trying to contextualize 'bad' because (as I said before): I don't think Allen played well because he obviously didn't. I'm just saying man...it looks difficult out there on offense. Like difficult in a way that to expect a good/great performance at the QB position is borderline unreasonable.

 

I mean doesn't it look that way to you too on film? I have a hard time just saying 'QB played poorly' when you actually go in and look at it. The protection doesn't seem to match the route timing, he clearly doesn't trust what he's seeing (from Shavers in ATL specifically), there's never a guy who just point blank wins on release for an easy completion...again to me it just looks very very difficult 

[HappyDays]

52 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

@HappyDays

you know i was being facetious but if this truly is the prevailing sentiment (it's completely, unequivocally wrong btw), then yes- we should be looking at trading Allen for picks. You do not need a QB like Allen to run this offense and even tho it will 100% look worse w 31/31 other starters it would be in the long term interest of the team to build the Bills out in their image w that capital

 

The telling quote in this BN article is at one point he is talking about the failed flip pass to Ty Johnson. He writes "Allen had no choice but to run to his left to avoid the unaccounted for defender." A couple sentences later he writes "This was another Allen mistake... He could have easily turned and thrown Johnson the football." What a luxury it is to say that after your QB gets out of an automatic sack because of an unaccounted defender and no quick read, that the result of the play is because of his own mistake.

[Dillenger4]

12 minutes ago, Casey D said:

You will not convince certain people.  The narrative is that others failed to be open etc., or, if Josh played poorly, it is because his mind is addled by the horrible team around him.  But no matter, he had a bad game, and he has had bad games before.  It does not mean he will continue to play poorly, wants to move to San Franciso, or is complacent because he has a wife.  It's just one fuc*ing game!

And the NE game was?

Let's revisit this post after we lose to Carolina.

All things aside - Josh isn't playing well this year.

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I'm curious on the 3rd down play. I'm not an X's and O's guy, but I see the Falcons rushed 5 guys and 2 of them were un-blocked. How do the 5 guys on our O-Line only manage to block 3 defenders? Did Josh make a bad pre-snap read? Did the O-Line (with McGovern injured on the sideline) botch the play? 

 

By the time Josh moves on to the Shakir read there's 2 unblocked defenders coming in at full speed on him from a few yards out. If he makes the throw to Shakir he's probably taking a huge hit. Should he have started with that read based on pre-snap stuff? 

The protection was incorrectly called before the snap. I've watched that play 20 times. They showed an all-out blitz. And at the snap, all 7 came. But two guys that were on the 5-man front dropped into coverage, including that guy covering Ty Johnson to Josh's right. That was Josh's hot route and his first read at the snap. It's also why Spencer Brown is standing there with nothing to do. Then three Bills OL are blocking two Falcons, leaving Dawkins on an island out wide to Josh's right. Two free rushers came up the gap. It was a total cluster of a protection call. 

[Avisan]

One additional note:

 

When a team is blitzing relentlessly and refuses to come off of it, the way to beat that is by setting/hitting the hot route over.  And over.  And over again.  The whole point of blitzing is to force mistakes by getting there before a traditional route comes open.  Blitzing against Mahomes/Brady/Manning/Brees is/was defensive suicide because they would punish you for it again and again.  That level of discipline is something Josh struggles to maintain.  He WANTS to kill you with the big play and improv.  Disciplined blitzing punishes those tendencies while simultaneously baiting a player like Josh to devolve into them.

 

You have to win with your brain in these games, because the defense is taking away the option of winning with your body.

[TheWeatherMan]

When your defense gives us 360 yards of offense in the first half to a crap team missing their #2 and #3 WR, Josh feels the need to put the cape on.  That’s when he makes mistakes, trying to compensate for a team with no WRs or Defense