The obsession with turning Josh Allen into a pocket QB

[nucci]

12 hours ago, T.E. said:

I hate virtually everything about our offensive strategy. It is weak, gimmicky crap - the type of stuff a college team runs when their QB will immediately be converted to WR as soon as he gets to the NFL.

and we run the same plays from same formations every game. I knew every play call before it happened. So easy to tell if we were running or passing. No play action , draws or screen passes

[T.E.]

13 minutes ago, nucci said:

and we run the same plays from same formations every game. I knew every play call before it happened. So easy to tell if we were running or passing. No play action , draws or screen passes

You can pretty much tell if they are going to run or pass by whether Cook is in the game or not. It's bizarre how little they care about being so predictable.

[GaryPinC]

12 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

For the past couple of years it seems like Josh Allen has been trending down as a runner. We have an idiot coordinator who constructs an offense like they have Trent Edward’s under center. I never understood the constant obsession (even on this board) with neutering Josh Allen and cutting off his legs. You’re taking away one of his best skill sets. 
 

There was a 4th down play against the Falcons where he could’ve very easily ran it for a first and would’ve done so in the past. Instead he throws a low % ball that of course falls incomplete by a mile. 

 

I get when your guy is hitting that mid 30s mark, but just turned 29 in the offseason?! No major knee/lower body injuries. Even the Chiefs aren’t that dumb. Mahomes is their leading rusher. At least they’re showing they’ll do what it takes when other facets of the offense aren’t working. Just pure stupidity.
 

Josh is special when he’s running with the ball. Don’t neuter him. I’d rather have 5 more high level MVP years than 8 more of this garbage. It’s like watching an Eagle with its wings clipped. Brady has to go. Cook and the running game wouldn’t suffer one bit if they canned this bum. 

At this point in his career, Josh knows how to be smart with his running, and I highly doubt they're going to be overly critical when he chooses to do so.  It's at least an equal choice on Allen's part IMO to save it for critical situations late.

 

They're also not doing their tush push much with him this year.  It's very possible that his body is taking too much punishment and everyone felt the need to scale it back, especially early in the season. 

 

WRT the flip pass, he was just about to be sacked.

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

Mahomes also has a less than stellar running game to complement his passing. So a lot of his passes are screens or as I used to call them when teams ran the West Coast Offense, thruns. Basically passes that gained 4-5 yards to help make the game more manageable. 

Ya that's a fair point.

But at the same time, the bills also do a ton of bubble screens to Shakir/Kincaid

[dorquemada]

I swear mcd and Brady are doing their best to ruin Allen.   It's hard to see it otherwise.  As a thought exercise, if Brady and McD/Beane had been given a billion dollars by some shadowy group with the promise they would ruin Allen, what exactly would they have done differently in the last 3 years?

[2003Contenders]

I will take it a step further. It is clear to me that the RECEIVERS DON'T SEEM TO KNOW WHAT TO DO  when Josh DOES break contain.

 

Even when Josh buys extra time by rolling out of the pocket and scrambling, he rarely finds an open receiver. While we all lament the lack of quality and production (re: talent) coming from our receiving corps, I truly believe that this is more of an awareness type of thing that comes with practice and chemistry rather than having some unique skill-set. Aside from speed and ability to separate, it appears that our receiving corps is missing the craftiness and nuances to play effectively.

 

Mahomes has often talked about how often the Chiefs work on these sort of scramble drills. To my eyes, it doesn't look like the Bills do.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

13 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

That's what McDermott wanted. "Complementary football," i.e. run heavy offense to protect his sad sack defense 

McDermott coaches his team like he’s playing against Josh Allen every week instead of having him on the roster. Another thing that annoys me are these long time consuming drives especially when they only end up kicking a FG. Always ends up biting them in the butt. This offense should be trying to gain as many possessions as possible to put up points. 

[The Frankish Reich]

16 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

I will never understand the complete overhaul they did on offence after Daboll.

 

They went from a heavy 11 personnel team who airs the ball all over the yard with talented recievers, to "ground and pound" with heavy packages, and little talent at the WR position.

 

I get they had to change a bit as defences in the NFL have adjusted to a lot more 2 high shell.. But this drastic of a change when JA17 is the QB, and we are essentially making him a game manager? 

 

Never will understand it

Agreed.

In defense of McD, he (and Josh) seem to operate under a kind of seat of the pants strategy. When the game is really important (playoff seeding, playoffs, or vs. the Chiefs) we're gonna see Josh running and creating. When it's perceived to be just 1 of 17 games, the emphasis switches to Josh Preservation. I suspect we'll see a switch back to aggressive Josh a little earlier this season.

 

[KOKBILLS]

16 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

I will never understand the complete overhaul they did on offence after Daboll.

 

They went from a heavy 11 personnel team who airs the ball all over the yard with talented recievers, to "ground and pound" with heavy packages, and little talent at the WR position.

 

I get they had to change a bit as defences in the NFL have adjusted to a lot more 2 high shell.. But this drastic of a change when JA17 is the QB, and we are essentially making him a game manager? 

 

Never will understand it

 

I think it just came down to the fact that they lost the smartest Offensive guy in the room... And then they just settled for less because that's all they had. 

[90sBills]

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ok- And we killed our passing game by switching to running heavy.

 

If you're asking me would I rather Andy Reid's play calling/scheme vs Joe Brady's, that's the easiest answer I've ever had to give 

Yeah I think everybody except maybe Brady’s family would choose Reid over him. lol 

 

My point was Reid is not interested in having a balanced offensive run/pass attack. A lot of fans here have mocked that some of Mahomes’ pass attempts are 5 yards or less. That’s essentially an extension of Reid’s running attack.
 

Brady, like most OC, wants a more balanced attack to take pressure off the qb. So we’re going to see more balanced run/pass with the Bills offense. That’s not a bad thing, imo, especially with Cook running the ball.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

McDermott coaches his team like he’s playing against Josh Allen every week instead of having him on the roster. Another thing that annoys me are these long time consuming drives especially when they only end up kicking a FG. Always ends up biting them in the butt. This offense should be trying to gain as many possessions as possible to put up points. 

Don't have the horses. Receivers have sucked for years. TEs are good but overrated. Have a fast back and hardly pass to him.

 

The Bills are like a Boomer who buys a Ferrari only to never drive it over 50 MPH.

 

This leads me to one of two logical outcomes:

 

1) bills keep management and trade Allen. Why have a stud QB if you're not interested building an offense for him?

 

2) bills keep Allen and ditch management. My preferred solution 

 

What's clear is continuing on in this manner is stupid and counterproductive 

 

[GoBills808]

16 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

That's what McDermott wanted. "Complementary football," i.e. run heavy offense to protect his sad sack defense 

Correct

 

[BillsFan130]

21 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Agreed.

In defense of McD, he (and Josh) seem to operate under a kind of seat of the pants strategy. When the game is really important (playoff seeding, playoffs, or vs. the Chiefs) we're gonna see Josh running and creating. When it's perceived to be just 1 of 17 games, the emphasis switches to Josh Preservation. I suspect we'll see a switch back to aggressive Josh a little earlier this season.

 

I hope so.

 

I am not so sure we have the personnel at WR to air it out now though.

 

This is the decision Beane/mcdermott/brady has made with this offensive philosophy, and we are kind of stuck with it now.

[colin]

i think the pocket passing breakdowns are a function of our WRs sucking out loud, but even more so play calling.  we seem to not want to use effective play action, no matter how successful it is, and the stats show we run 80% from under center and pass 80% from shotty.  the d has every advantage on 4 out of 5 plays against us, so you are going to see allen struggle because aside from showing if we pass or run, we also are back to not being able to pick up blitzes and stunts.

[mannc]

Defenses now know Josh is not going to run, and it takes away a huge advantage that we once had…

[Fleezoid]

I think the offensive play designs lack creativity. When Joe Brady took over, he balanced out the offense, but there were still some dynamic play designs included. It just looks bland now. I haven't seen a whole lot of adjustments in-game the past 2 weeks either. I would like to see some more RPOs, but I feel there would be no O in that, and the play would just get blown up. 

 

They have 1-1/2 weeks to install a whole new offense. Put the coffee on and get to work. I dunno. That's all I got. 

[The Frankish Reich]

Sam Darnold laughs last?

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-statistical-review-week-7-team-tiers-pass-rates-2025

 

No team's passing attack has been more efficient than the Seahawks': Seattle has generated a league-best EPA per play on passes through six weeks, helping the team stand at 4-2.

 

We have the guy with a historically strong arm and we're near the bottom in average air yards per pass/completion?

 

And if that's not enough for a Wednesday, how about this early harbinger of doom from the same article:

 

The Panthers‘ rushing offense has taken off: Carolina, with two straight wins in hand, is reaping the rewards of Rico Dowdle and a revived run game.

[The Frankish Reich]

Correction: Air Yards per Pass Attempt - Josh is still in the top third at 7.8, but Darnold is at 9.6. That's a huge difference.

[oldmanfan]

I would remind everyone that with the same HC and OC, and similar offensive personnel, Josh was the league MVP last year and the offense was top 5 in the league.  What needs to be done is for Brady to stop some of the “cuteness” and get back to things that worked last year.  Get back to the 4+ 1 sets that teams couldn’t cover.  Get back to the 6 O linemen sets with Anderson.  Throw the ball to the RBs to free things up more for the WRs.  Use Cook and quit sitting him down at vital points of the game.  
 

I agree having another WR of high caliber could help.  But we can be doing a lot more right now on offense, as last year showed.

[Goin Breakdown]

18 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

That's what McDermott wanted. "Complementary football," i.e. run heavy offense to protect his sad sack defense 

I see what you're saying here. 
 I just don't like that we have probably the best QB in the league and this staff is just bent on being a run team. Not a team that CAN run but a team that wants to focus on the run. Why the hell do we need Josh then. Just get a game manager if you want to play that kind of ball. They don't care to surround Josh with a complete group of complimentary receivers. Just a redundant slot group. They like Coleman because he can block not catch. It's mainly about the run. And then the thing that baffles my brain is they take Cook off the field when we need 1 yard on 3rd down. I can't figure this office and staff out.