Kincaid Shakir and especially Cook need to be focal points of the passing attack

[The Jokeman]

Just now, YodaMan79 said:

Because he's exponentially more talented than the next guy here!  

And Xavier Worthy has more speed than any single player to ever play this game yet averaged less than 12 yards a catch in his career. Talent alone doesn't define numbers.

[Sweats]

If they can't put Cook in on every down, then we should have drafted Skatebo and let him steamroll D's into submission.........but i am just a lowly fan, so what do i know about football

[Ga boy]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

I don't mean this as a criticism but Shakir is a limited player. He does his one trick extremely well and for that alone I think he is worth his contract, but he is not someone you want to rely on down in and down out. His failure to make what has become a pretty routine sideline catch in the modern NFL is a good example of what I mean. And just to be clear I don't blame him for not making that play. It's not his fault he's been elevated into the role of full time slot WR when his proper role is YAC specialist that you manufacture a few touches for.

Everyone can suggest a play that contributed most to the L. That play and the Bosa sack that was nullified come to mind.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

They're totally different players IMO. Beasley was a route runner/separator. Shakir is a YAC specialist that you scheme touches for.

 

Shakir can separate too.  He just doesn't have the volume.  He's better after the catch, he's better in the open field, he can get downfield better than Beasley.

If we gave him the targets that Beasley had, Shakir would have more production.

 

Coleman needs to be on the sideline.  I was at the game last night sitting in the endzone with a perfect Madden view, he's athletically clumsy. 

He hits the juke hard, but too hard where you know it's a juke.  It's like Barry Zito's curveball.  It broke a lot but too much where you knew it was a curveball.

 

You aren't buying his first cut, it doesn't get the DB to bite or turn his hips or get him thinking or get him off balance.

[YodaMan79]

2 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

And Xavier Worthy has more speed than any single player to ever play this game yet averaged less than 12 yards a catch in his career. Talent alone doesn't define numbers.

You've very astute.  Wouldn't you kill for production like his, here?  I think his numbers define his numbers: 

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, YodaMan79 said:

You've very astute.  Wouldn't you kill for production like his, here?  I think his numbers define his numbers: 

I like Pickens as a player but guess what? He's got a horrible personality. Same goes for guys like Diggs and Antonio Brown. 

[YodaMan79]

32 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I like Pickens as a player but guess what? He's got a horrible personality. Same goes for guys like Diggs and Antonio Brown. 

He’s not dating our daughters.  If our locker room can’t embrace different personalities and make it work, that’s on them.  Aren’t we being told by a certain segment of the population that “diversity is our strength.”  
 

In all seriousness they need to take some calculated risks.  They built the culture to hopefully take younger guys like this and help transform them and extend their careers. The team/fans benefit in the process with hopefully reaching the ultimate goal. 

[billsfan_34]

Why Shakir? He is a 3 or a 2 at best. The Bills need a number 1 WR. Kincaid is always hurt so there throws that out the window.

2 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

Idk what the hell is going on with some of these playcalls

 

Shakir was great doing the Beasley role. Need more of that. 

 

Kincaid has been fine this year. Keep it up.

 

WHY HAVE WE STOPPED DUMPING IT TO COOK? That needs to come back ASAP.

Beasley > Shakir

[jlatas]

3 hours ago, MPL said:

Every WR on the Bills has such a specialized skillset that it's easy for the defense to know what every WR is going to do. 

You are right on. We have put every receiver into a box as to what they do and every team knows this! We need more versatility. Having a receiver or two thats considered a gadget player (and cant stay healthy) does us no good

1 hour ago, YodaMan79 said:

He’s not dating our daughters.  If our locker room can’t embrace different personalities and make it work, that’s on them.  Aren’t we being told by a certain segment of the population that “diversity is our strength.”  
 

In all seriousness they need to take some calculated risks.  They built the culture to hopefully take younger guys like this and help transform them and extend their careers. The team/fans benefit in the process with hopefully reaching the ultimate goal. 

Yeah, getting tired of new players needing to fit the "culture"! Maybe talent and athleticism count even more. The first way is definitely not working lately

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Is there some kind of problem with Allen dumping off to Cook and making a guy miss for a big gain? 

[gobills404]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

They're totally different players IMO. Beasley was a route runner/separator. Shakir is a YAC specialist that you scheme touches for.

Shakir was a great separator in 2023. Caught 86.7% of his targets for 15.7 yard per catch with a large chunk of those targets being 10+ yards downfield. Brady completely neutered that part of his game and turned him into a glorified gadget player.

[Dillenger4]

14 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Is there some kind of problem with Allen dumping off to Cook and making a guy miss for a big gain? 

yes - allen would most likely throw a pic.

[Sojourner]

4 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

I like Pickens as a player but guess what? He's got a horrible personality. Same goes for guys like Diggs and Antonio Brown. 

Maybe but Pickens strikes me as player who has to be the main guy on a WR core and as long as he has that he’ll be good. The kid was making plays left and right with some unreal catches when targeted in Pittsburgh then wouldn’t see the ball again for large spells, I can understand the frustrations he had regarding that. Sometimes you have to deal with the guys who are unhinged if they can be a serious addition to the team. 
 

Hopefully we investigate signing him this off-season if he becomes available because that talent isn’t available every year. however, I don’t think we’ll be able to acquire his services as he’s going to get a massive deal, no question about that. 

[brianthomas]

Not utilizing Cook enough is 1 of the big constants within our losses. Everyone says he's 1 of our most dynamic players, 1 of the elite runners in the League. 

We should be feeding Cook like the Falcons fed Robinson. Line up Cook all over the field, so he can look for mismatches & keep the D off-balance. Something other than the bench please.

[Saint Douggie]

6 hours ago, YodaMan79 said:

Everyone eats...🙄

Everybody starves

[bills11]

7 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

There seems to be a weird arrogance about the Everybody Eats thing… like, no matter what works we have to keep switching guys out and running different plays to prove how nobody is above the scheme. 
 

Instead of like, I don’t know, letting your best players play except when they need rest?

Agreed 100%... Diggs targets and production went wayy down once Joe Brady took over..and as we saw first hand unfortunately he's still got it..

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

Idk what the hell is going on with some of these playcalls

 

Shakir was great doing the Beasley role. Need more of that. 

 

Kincaid has been fine this year. Keep it up.

 

WHY HAVE WE STOPPED DUMPING IT TO COOK? That needs to come back ASAP.

I agree- but I also think Palmer needs to be used more.  He’s not being used enough and my money was on him having a huge game last night.  Injured after 6 snaps and 2 catches for 60 yards 🤦🏻‍♂️ 
 

Brady doesn’t seem to know how to utilize Keon properly.  Not that he’s great or anything. 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I don't mean this as a criticism but Shakir is a limited player. He does his one trick extremely well and for that alone I think he is worth his contract, but he is not someone you want to rely on down in and down out. His failure to make what has become a pretty routine sideline catch in the modern NFL is a good example of what I mean. And just to be clear I don't blame him for not making that play. It's not his fault he's been elevated into the role of full time slot WR when his proper role is YAC specialist that you manufacture a few touches for.

Bingo.  That sideline pass by Allen was perfect and as you said most boundary savvy NFL receivers keep their feet inbound.  Shakir is the best version of McKenzie that can exist. 

 

 

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

 

Brady doesn’t seem to know how to utilize Keon properly.  Not that he’s great or anything. 

Not sure I put this on Brady.  Over the last couple of games Allen has thrown some very catchable balls to Coleman along the sideline only to see incomplete passes as Coleman doesn't get his body set to make the catches expected from a big man.  Typically a much smaller DB gets in close and knocks the ball away and Coleman looks at the refs and complains there wasn't a flag thrown.  

 

I watched a lot of college and pro football this past weekend and saw a lot of big WR's effectively box out the DB on the sideline throws and make those catches.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

Idk what the hell is going on with some of these playcalls

 

Shakir was great doing the Beasley role. Need more of that. 

 

Kincaid has been fine this year. Keep it up.

 

WHY HAVE WE STOPPED DUMPING IT TO COOK? That needs to come back ASAP.

 

I don't care what some small contingent of TSW says - Shakir is special.  His ability to do something with the ball after the catch is literally elite.  His hands, his focus, his dependability, etc are all also elite.  The Bills need to focus on getting the ball into their best playmakers hands, which you nailed are Shakir, Cook, and Kincaid.  

 

Just move the freaking chains - moving chains scores points - its what 2 dynasties were just built on in KC and NE.  Even when they had Hill, KC still led the NFL in passes and yards gained near the LOS by a wide margin.

 

Furthermore - We have Cook and Allen - somehow we are awful now on down and short.  Something we were elite at - but they decided to bastardize the tush push, almost like for a complete defiance to do it since they voted against it, in the AFCCG and it literally cost us a SB birth (that and the refs swinging the game 11-15 points in the 4th stealing our first down twice within 2 plays).  Brady, you should just literally just go watch the Eagles dominate on down and short like no team in history instead of just playing all these cutsie crap calls.  

 

Also, if we have such a great OL, run more 2 TE sets where BOTH TE's are out there putting pressure on the defense like the Pats had with Gronk and Murder Inc.  Knox has top 10 TE talent, let him eat too. 

 

Finally - Keon - I was optimistic on him after his camp and offseason work.  But the fact is, Bills are using him as inmproperly as he was used in college.  Stop funning him out there for just 50/50 ball type routes because he isn't burning anyone on the outside.  They need to move him around, use more crossers, more come backs, etc.  When they do, he is effective.  But watching his routes this past week was maddening, Brady should know already what he is best at and start using him properly.  They care so much more about him running a route to clear out or block that there are not enough routes for him to have a high success rate at.  Either commit to making him a part of the offense or get someone like Samuel more snaps who can win deep.  

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Finally - Keon - I was optimistic on him after his camp and offseason work.  But the fact is, Bills are using him as inmproperly as he was used in college.  Stop funning him out there for just 50/50 ball type routes because he isn't burning anyone on the outside.  They need to move him around, use more crossers, more come backs, etc.  When they do, he is effective.  But watching his routes this past week was maddening, Brady should know already what he is best at and start using him properly.  They care so much more about him running a route to clear out or block that there are not enough routes for him to have a high success rate at.  Either commit to making him a part of the offense or get someone like Samuel more snaps who can win deep.  

Okay if this is true then we should not have drafted and Coleman and took McConkey instead.  The logic behind taking Coleman, which made sense to me, was that he had the big frame and BB background to enable him to shine snagging 50/50 balls.  Something the Bills did not have.