Tired of "everyone eats".

[TheyCallMeAndy]

32 minutes ago, Blackbeard said:

My opinion is that the "everyone eats" philosophy was born by trying to have average players pretty much everywhere.  Cost effective players.

 

I think the Bills don't like loading up on really any one area (outside of QB) and having a weak spot.  Spread money around.  Not too much on WR.  Example, look at Bengals.  No money for OL.  All loot was focused on WR group.  

 

Everyone eats is just a byproduct of having overall lesser talent, but having it all over.  Why have an A+ wr corp with a D- OL?  Bills want B's all over the field.  Its a money thing imo.

And honestly, the results have been historic. 
 

My only offensive wish is that one of our outside WRs could threaten deep with some speed. Not dominating down field, just threat. 
 

That is legitimately it. 

[bigK14094]

The D is the problem these days, despite holding NE to 23 points.  And, how do you loose so many folks to injury in practice?  Something wrong there.

[mjt328]

The problem isn't the "everybody eats" mentality.  I think offenses work better when the QB isn't forcing it to one player, and it creates a win-first attitude amongst the offensive players.  The problem is that we need to strike a better balance between conservative/efficient and aggressive/reckless.  We can't just go weeks on end without challenging a defense downfield.

 

Ken Dorsey's offense was about aggressively attacking downfield with the passing game, and often forcing the ball to Stefon Diggs.  Yes, we were among the top scoring teams in the league, but struggled with efficiency and turnovers.  Most games we had 3-4 great touchdown drives.  The other 6-7 drives were a complete mess.

 

Joe Brady is basically the opposite philosophy, but it's turning out similar results.  Very balanced run/pass.  Mostly short passes.  Avoiding turnovers.  Just getting the ball to whoever is open.  It's statistically much more "efficient".  But it's also lacks explosive plays.  Now we are stalling 6-7 drives a game, because it's hard to consistently finish long drives (especially when it requires overcoming penalties).

 

In my opinion, we really need to find ways to attack more downfield.  We don't need a superstar outside receiver to do that.  Even if we don't have a burner on the roster, guys like Curtis Samuel and Elijah Moore do have some speed.  Keon Coleman needs to get better at the jump-balls and back-shoulder throws.  Khalil Shakir can be used more than just on screens.  Our Tight Ends can also challenge down the seems on deeper passes.  Josh Palmer can do more.

 

[bigK14094]

Oh yeh.  I also noted in the game that a lot of Bills lost their footing during play.  Its like they don't practice on their home field.  Oh, wait, they don't!  the bulk of work is in the dome where the turf may not be like the weathered/weather modified surface that games are played on.

[billsfan89]

Everyone eats is fine but there is a reason why most teams do try to get a true "WR1" on the boundary. The Bills have an offense where much like the start of last season teams are going to dare the Bills to throw to the boundary. Stack the box to stop the run, gear the passing defense to take away the middle and leave the corners one on one to handle the outside WR's and give them that. 

 

As much as people looked at Cooper's stats last season and said he was a bust there was a reason why his acquisition correlated to the team being much better on offense. Teams for the most part respected Cooper enough to not always leave him one on one. It made a big difference to how the offense could operate. 

 

The Bills need that consistent boundary WR to make the offense flow. Once the offense consistently scores the pressure is off the defense and it even improves the defense as later in games teams have to become more one dimensional. 

[Sweats]

Everybody eats...........most teams with a true WR1 are eating T-bone steak, our WR's are eating Salsbury steak.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, mjt328 said:

The problem isn't the "everybody eats" mentality.  I think offenses work better when the QB isn't forcing it to one player, and it creates a win-first attitude amongst the offensive players.  The problem is that we need to strike a better balance between conservative/efficient and aggressive/reckless.  We can't just go weeks on end without challenging a defense downfield.

 

Ken Dorsey's offense was about aggressively attacking downfield with the passing game, and often forcing the ball to Stefon Diggs.  Yes, we were among the top scoring teams in the league, but struggled with efficiency and turnovers.  Most games we had 3-4 great touchdown drives.  The other 6-7 drives were a complete mess.

 

Joe Brady is basically the opposite philosophy, but it's turning out similar results.  Very balanced run/pass.  Mostly short passes.  Avoiding turnovers.  Just getting the ball to whoever is open.  It's statistically much more "efficient".  But it's also lacks explosive plays.  Now we are stalling 6-7 drives a game, because it's hard to consistently finish long drives (especially when it requires overcoming penalties).

 

In my opinion, we really need to find ways to attack more downfield.  We don't need a superstar outside receiver to do that.  Even if we don't have a burner on the roster, guys like Curtis Samuel and Elijah Moore do have some speed.  Keon Coleman needs to get better at the jump-balls and back-shoulder throws.  Khalil Shakir can be used more than just on screens.  Our Tight Ends can also challenge down the seems on deeper passes.  Josh Palmer can do more.

 

Our #4 WR could be the deep threat, and that is totally fine. Shavers has some wheels, but we haven't ever tried it yet. I really think when he's healthy, Gabe Davis takes that #4 role and we see more deep attempts.

 

That's basically what Hollis did last year. 

[QCity]

"Everyone eats" is basically a euphemism for "we don't have any elite WRs"

 

Knox out-snapping Kincaid last game is Exhibit A on why this nonsense needs to stop.

[8BallSippin]

I'd suggest with injuries heading into the playoffs always a very big factor, having as many options producing plays across the board is a good hedge.  

 

We all know Allen will Allen.  as always, can this Defense get healthy/ stay healthy in January, and can they make a play or two to nudge this organization to the final game?

 

 

 

 

[mjt328]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

Everyone eats is fine but there is a reason why most teams do try to get a true "WR1" on the boundary. The Bills have an offense where much like the start of last season teams are going to dare the Bills to throw to the boundary. Stack the box to stop the run, gear the passing defense to take away the middle and leave the corners one on one to handle the outside WR's and give them that. 

 

As much as people looked at Cooper's stats last season and said he was a bust there was a reason why his acquisition correlated to the team being much better on offense. Teams for the most part respected Cooper enough to not always leave him one on one. It made a big difference to how the offense could operate. 

 

The Bills need that consistent boundary WR to make the offense flow. Once the offense consistently scores the pressure is off the defense and it even improves the defense as later in games teams have to become more one dimensional. 

 

I think that Keon Coleman and Josh Palmer CAN work on the outside. 

Palmer is a good route runner.  Coleman has the size.  We have other guys with enough speed to make safeties pay attention.

 

But we have to be willing to attack, even if they aren't always the highest percentage play.  

Dorsey was too aggressive.  But I think Brady has trended too far the other way.

 

Eventually defenses catch on.  Our offense has been gradually trending down as the season has progressed.

 

[billsfan89]

Just now, mjt328 said:

 

I think that Keon Coleman and Josh Palmer CAN work on the outside. 

Palmer is a good route runner.  Coleman has the size.  We have other guys with enough speed to make safeties pay attention.

 

But we have to be willing to attack, even if they aren't always the highest percentage play.  

Dorsey was too aggressive.  But I think Brady has trended too far the other way.

 

Eventually defenses catch on.  Our offense has been gradually trending down as the season has progressed.

 

 

I think it can work too but I also think that against better defenses in the playoffs this team is going to need boundary WR's to make plays. I don't think trying to get someone in who defenses will respect more and who can be a good to guy when needed is a bad idea. But that's also easier said than done.

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, Andrew Son said:

I find the focus on the offense to be truly bizarre.

 

It's been historically good.  If we fall short this year it will be because of the defense, again.  

No disagreement about the 2nd part.

 

But it's just so hard to sustain the offence they had last year. They barely turned the ball over and I think Josh Allen had the least amount of negative plays in nfl history last year for a QB.

 

It's just an extremely tough formula to replicate, and the game against New England was a good reminder of that 

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, Yobogoya! said:

I think it's an OK philosophy in the sense that the offense isn't being hamstrung by any one particular star player- the Patriots operated like that for most of their dynasty sans the Randy Moss years. 

 

Sure they had certain mainstays, like Gronk, Welker, Edelman, etc. And they were allowed to cheat!

 

But for the most part they rode whoever the "hot hand" was in a certain game. I think that's what the Bills are missing- Kincaid was carving the Pats up, so why not keep feeding him? If the guy whose finding the sweet spot is Shakir, then feed Shakir. If it's Cook, then feed Cook. 

 

Once you've unlocked the guy who's having success, you can stop trying to spread the ball around until they stop it. If their defense adjusts, THEN you spread the ball around again. Once McDaniels and Maye figured out that Diggs wasn't going to be stopped all game, they fed him to the tune of his biggest game in over two years. It's really that simple. 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

13 minutes ago, QCity said:

"Everyone eats" is basically a euphemism for "we don't have any elite WRs"

 

Knox out-snapping Kincaid last game is Exhibit A on why this nonsense needs to stop.

Knox and Kincaid are on the field to do different things. 
 

I guarantee you Knox is NOT running more routes than Kincaid, and he certainly isn't getting more targets. 

[Matt_In_NH]

I know it started with the bills but it is the media that is pushing that narrative.  No number 1 WR….got it.   The bills want to run first, I know that is not sexy but they have been successful.   What hurt them Sunday was turnovers and penalties not offensive personnel. 

[bmur66]

Everyone gets a hot dog

[The Frankish Reich]

I never thought I'd say it, but I miss Diggs.

He just reminded us what it means to have a true elite receiver.

[CincyBillsFan]

22 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

The problem isn't the "everybody eats" mentality.  I think offenses work better when the QB isn't forcing it to one player, and it creates a win-first attitude amongst the offensive players.  The problem is that we need to strike a better balance between conservative/efficient and aggressive/reckless.  We can't just go weeks on end without challenging a defense downfield.

 

Ken Dorsey's offense was about aggressively attacking downfield with the passing game, and often forcing the ball to Stefon Diggs.  Yes, we were among the top scoring teams in the league, but struggled with efficiency and turnovers.  Most games we had 3-4 great touchdown drives.  The other 6-7 drives were a complete mess.

 

Joe Brady is basically the opposite philosophy, but it's turning out similar results.  Very balanced run/pass.  Mostly short passes.  Avoiding turnovers.  Just getting the ball to whoever is open.  It's statistically much more "efficient".  But it's also lacks explosive plays.  Now we are stalling 6-7 drives a game, because it's hard to consistently finish long drives (especially when it requires overcoming penalties).

 

In my opinion, we really need to find ways to attack more downfield.  We don't need a superstar outside receiver to do that.  Even if we don't have a burner on the roster, guys like Curtis Samuel and Elijah Moore do have some speed.  Keon Coleman needs to get better at the jump-balls and back-shoulder throws.  Khalil Shakir can be used more than just on screens.  Our Tight Ends can also challenge down the seems on deeper passes.  Josh Palmer can do more.

 

And the other problem with depending entirely on long, 8+ play drives is that as we saw Sunday night you increase the chances for TO's and penalty's.  

[QCity]

5 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Knox and Kincaid are on the field to do different things. 
 

I guarantee you Knox is NOT running more routes than Kincaid, and he certainly isn't getting more targets. 

 

I never said he was.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

If you’re looking at Weeks 1-4, I’d agree.  Although there were times the offense was stagnant for stretches, in the end they put up 30+ with few turnovers

 

But last Sunday the offense was a big reason why the lost.  We’ll see what happened next Monday

The problem is the offense started taking penalties and turned the ball over all of which hurt our chances to win but as talked about already we had our chance still but failed to step up. I'm not overly concerned as it wasn't the norm we've seen the past two and a half years under Brady.