The Refs and this “rigged” league

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, The Wiz said:

I said in the "around the league" thread, if you can bet money on it, someone is on the take. 

 

Everyone always says, it's too easy to find out if someone is shaving points or calling the game unfair or x, y and z.  But for some reason, it seems to happen a lot.

 
All of which doesn’t mean to me the League is “rigged “ … that would mean the people running the sport are orchestrating outcomes 

 

 

 

[folz]

Welcome to the WWE-era of NFL football. 

 

Enjoy the stories, athleticism, and entertainment, but do not expect fair, competitive sport (at least not consistently)...you'll be much happier that way.

 

 

[Chandler#81]

Tom Brady bashes refs following Pats* win

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02Veqa51J55kYrJTux5rMLAgGgCx682ADfMK5rgNtDksr5EXqwvXGDmWDceqxMUwrel&id=61581063090018

[Not at the table Karlos]

19 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I actually have never seen a crew nit pick the oline like that ever. The interior holding calls were not holds. None of them. Even the illegal procedure and false starts were not good calls. 
 

they called the pats for that one false start on 3rd and inches, and their lineman didn’t even move. It was like he was taking a breath and they called it. 

The lineman on the 3rd and inches definitely moved. Some of the interior holds were definitely holds. The issue with the holds is the patriots were doing them too with no calls. 

[Kirby Jackson]

I don’t believe that any leagues are fixed. Basically, I don’t believe that the leagues are trying to influence the outcomes of games to steer officiating to one side. 
 

I do believe that it’s easy to have shady back door dealings where you can “buy a flag.” For the right number, it wouldn’t be impossible to believe some random back judge would throw a timely flag.

 

I also believe that a much bigger problem, in all sports, is inconsistency. With technology we should be beyond “the human element” in most cases. One of the most frustrating things when watching baseball, is when they say, “____ has a hitter/pitcher friendly strike zone.” What the hell does that mean?!? The strike zone is the strike zone. It isn’t meant to be interpreted by old guy. In football we see, this crew “calls the most presnap penalties in the league.” We need to get to a point when every crew calls the exact same presnap penalties. They are either a penalty or they are not!! 

[colin]

Everytime someone brings up using tech to eliminate bad ref work, we are told "it will eliminate the human element".  As if these flag tossing goofs are some how something anyone cares about.

 

We don't use "a human element" to keep time, we have replay because of bad calls, we need to go all the way tech and have all calls reviewed, or at least in high leverage situations 

[Kirby Jackson]

15 minutes ago, colin said:

Everytime someone brings up using tech to eliminate bad ref work, we are told "it will eliminate the human element".  As if these flag tossing goofs are some how something anyone cares about.

 

We don't use "a human element" to keep time, we have replay because of bad calls, we need to go all the way tech and have all calls reviewed, or at least in high leverage situations 

Great post!!

 

I always think about tennis. In 10 seconds, they can figure out, if a tennis ball, hit at 120 MPH, caught the line by a millimeter. The NFL, still, can’t decide what’s a first down. 🤦🏻‍♂️ Why do we have a bunch of old men running in and putting their foot where the think the ball goes? It’s 2025!!!

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, colin said:

Everytime someone brings up using tech to eliminate bad ref work, we are told "it will eliminate the human element".  As if these flag tossing goofs are some how something anyone cares about.

 

We don't use "a human element" to keep time, we have replay because of bad calls, we need to go all the way tech and have all calls reviewed, or at least in high leverage situations 

The other problem with this idea is that there will be a flag on almost every play and the flow of the game will be ruined.  
 

I’ve been lobbying to add more technological methods that will help the game be called more fairly for 15 years.  My one fear is that there would be 30 penalties a game and the game would be 🗑️ 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

The other problem with this idea is that there will be a flag on almost every play and the flow of the game will be ruined.  
 

I’ve been lobbying to add more technological methods that will help the game be called more fairly for 15 years.  My one fear is that there would be 30 penalties a game and the game would be 🗑️ 

I think that would happen for a little while. They always say, “there’s holding on every play.” What will happen over time though is the process of a penalty being assessed will be much quicker. You won’t have some old guy running 50 yards in to have a discussion with another old guy about what they thought they saw. It “is” or “isn’t.”
 

Also, teams will adapt and we will see teams evolve to commit less penalties. The ones that will be called will be way more consistent. There will be some lumps for a couple of years but after that, it’ll flow fine. 

[thenorthremembers]

Its beyond me to try and understand how and why refs do or dont call penalties.  Offensive lineman have the worst job in the league.  Pancake blocks are irrelevant because the ref is just going to call holding whether you did or not.   Some team's secondaries can manhandle wideouts and other teams cant.  You cant run rub routes unless you can.   Just get rid of the frickin one yard beyond the line of scrimmage rule.   A rub route is a rub route.  

 

The NFL has overcomplicated its games to a point where the referees play way too big a part in its outcome. 

Edited 3 hours ago by thenorthremembers

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Its beyond me to try and understand how and why refs do or dont call penalties.  Offensive lineman have the worst job in the league.  Pancake blocks are irrelevant because the ref is just going to call holding whether you did or not.   Some team's secondaries can manhandle wideouts and other teams cant.  You cant run rub routes unless you can.   Just get rid of the frickin one yard beyond the line of scrimmage.   A rub route is a rub route.  

 

The NFL has overcomplicated its games to a point where the referees play way too big a part in its outcome. 

For me it comes down to calling the game consistently from start to finish and the need for the league to eliminate huge differences in how different crews call a game through the season. When I saw which crew was assigned to this game I knew the Bills were going to have a rough night.

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

11 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

For me it comes down to calling the game consistently from start to finish and the need for the league to eliminate huge differences in how different crews call a game through the season. When I saw which crew was assigned to this game I knew the Bills were going to have a rough night.

 

 

 

Agree fully.  There are 14 referee crews in the NFL.   I dont know most of their names.   That said, if we get Houchuli, Hussey, Vinovich, Cheffers, or Blakeman I know there is a chance for tomfoolery.  

[JP51]

34 minutes ago, NewEra said:

The other problem with this idea is that there will be a flag on almost every play and the flow of the game will be ruined.  
 

I’ve been lobbying to add more technological methods that will help the game be called more fairly for 15 years.  My one fear is that there would be 30 penalties a game and the game would be 🗑️ 

This is so true... literally you cannot watch a Hochuli officiated game any more ticky tack BS followed up by gross inefficiency and inconsistency...  its like he believes HE and his crew ARE the game... right down to his Mansplaining of the calls... 

[PastaJoe]

47 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Great post!!

 

I always think about tennis. In 10 seconds, they can figure out, if a tennis ball, hit at 120 MPH, caught the line by a millimeter. The NFL, still, can’t decide what’s a first down. 🤦🏻‍♂️ Why do we have a bunch of old men running in and putting their foot where the think the ball goes? It’s 2025!!!

There are no visual obstructions on a tennis court blocking sight lines, or people holding the ball as it hits the line.

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, PastaJoe said:

There are no visual obstructions on a tennis court blocking sight lines, or people holding the ball as it hits the line.

I’d like to think, in 2025, a company that generates over $23B a year, could spot the ball accurately. There is absolutely technology available that’s far superior to an old guy running out with his foot. You could also develop technology better than what we already have (which again is way better than the current process). Maybe an old guy running in and putting his foot where he thinks that the ball goes will remain for West Senca East vs. Williamsville North but that’s not good enough for the NFL.

[LabattBlue]

20 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’d like to think, in 2025, a company that generates over $23B a year, could spot the ball accurately. There is absolutely technology available that’s far superior to an old guy running out with his foot. You could also develop technology better than what we already have (which again is way better than the current process). Maybe an old guy running in and putting his foot where he thinks that the ball goes will remain for West Senca East vs. Williamsville North but that’s not good enough for the NFL.

You can put sensors in the ball, but what technology is going to figure out when forward progress is stopped or when a player’s body part is “down”?

[Livinginthepast]

30 minutes ago, PastaJoe said:

There are no visual obstructions on a tennis court blocking sight lines, or people holding the ball as it hits the line.

True but a chip in the ball would always determine where it was on the field hidden or not by players bodies. Last night the Jags got a first down where Lawrence was a yard past the line yet he was marked as getting the ball so the tip just touched the line, this was with no obstructions. The video assist staff did not buzz down for a respot of the ball either. It didnt matter in the end because he got the first down. The play where Lawrence tried to reach over the goaline and had it slapped out would also have been solved very quickly had the NFL used this same possible technology. For the record, I dont think he broke the plain of the goal line, but a high tech look would have been nice.

[BVBILLS]

The Kraft NBC connection is real!! I bet he went to Love you long time massage parlor before and after the game.

[JP51]

All I know is that non PI call on the KC interception was as bad as the non PI call in that Saints playoff games several years ago... like right out in the open... where the play was going... how do you not call that... 

[Cash]

8 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

You can put sensors in the ball, but what technology is going to figure out when forward progress is stopped or when a player’s body part is “down”?

This is the hard part. Hawkeye-style tech should be able to tells us exactly where the ball is at any given point. But I don’t think we’re at a point (yet) where it can tell you when the player is down - particularly since “down” can also include having forward progress stopped, as well as starting the process of a slide. 
 

That’s not to say that we couldn’t have a significant improvement with better tech, though. Maybe just for reviews of really close calls or something. Maybe the reviewer identifies a given timestamp as “down” and the system spits out the exact position of the ball at that time.