The final play to Shakir. Samuel was wide open for easy TD

[KOKBILLS]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

i think it's more testament to how crazy our expectations are from the QB spot that we look at a wideout 10seconds after snap 30+ yards away opposite side endzone from QB scramble and think 'hey that guy's open'

Totally fair

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The fact that people still call this guy a meathead, not only after watching his well-coached teams, but after watching Belichik trust his smarts enough to use him in about 16 different roles is ........... something.

Vrabel IS a meathead AND a great coach.

[Murdox]

8 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I disagree.

The Pats pushed them around a bit very early but once they quickly settled in they were rock solid.

I actually thought it was one of the few games where they were better in passpro than they were in the run game.

 

From what I saw, Allen's mobility got better in the second half as he began to be more familiar with the defensive schemes being run by the Pats.  The OL looked overmatched by the Pats DL for most of the game.  It was the worst game period for our OL this year.  I do believe that has something to do with Vrabel's somewhat complex schemes and the Bills coaching staff not adapting early.

 

That said, we can have different views.  Perhaps I'm a bit jaded because I see far too much "Josh Allen" this and that on these boards.  And if people think Allen was the main cause of this loss, I disagree.  The team needs to play better as a whole.

Edited 2 hours ago by Murdox

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Vrabel IS a meathead AND a great coach.

 

Just because he's a big guy that used to play football doesn't make him a meathead.

Do you seriously think Bill Belichick would have trusted him in so many different roles on both sides of the ball if he wasn't really, really smart?

[FireChans]

Just now, Simon said:

 

Just because he's a big guy that used to play football doesn't make him a meathead.

Do you seriously think Bill Belichick would have trusted him in so many different roles on both sides of the ball if he wasn't really, really smart?

I'm sure he's super smart guy and a heckuva coach.

 

I'm also sure he tries to break every other coach's hand in the handshake line.

[Simon]

7 minutes ago, Murdox said:

The OL looked overmatched by the Pats DL for most of the game.

 

They got to him with a couple blitzes out of the secondary but the Pats DL only got to Allen 2-3 times in 30+ dropbacks.

[Lionel Hutz]

Allen couldn't find his receivers because the all-white uniforms blended in with the whiteout in the crowd. 

[Einstein]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Thats not accurate, Allen is still in his drop back when the window to hit Samuel is opening

 

Absolutely not. That is an INT all day long and twice on Sunday if Allen throws at that point. The safety had plenty of time as did the up DB.

 

Samuel becomes wide open as Allen moves to his right and the defense shifts to the right to follow him.

20 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The fact that people still call this guy a meathead, not only after watching his well-coached teams, but after watching Belichik trust his smarts enough to use him in about 16 different roles is ........... something.

 

Yes!

 

I mentioned it earlier, but the Pats defensive end played the option perfectly as well.

 

People blamed Allen for not handing it off, but the DE remained completely neutral and didn’t crash in either direction (toward Ty or Allen). 

 

That is a well coached team.

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

Calm down. We all love Josh and know how great he is and wouldnt trade him for anything. That doesnt mean hes always perfect or we arent allowed to discuss mistakes.  You guys are so sensitive.

 

Wanted to come back to this real quick. Yes we should discuss Allen's mistakes, post-game analysis and diagnosing why a play went wrong is part of what makes this board great. But that doesn't mean we should invent mistakes or create narratives that never happened. "Diggs got in Allen's head." "Allen reverted to hero ball." These are not proper descriptors of his game from last night. It's ironic that people are saying Allen was forcing too many throws and playing hero ball, in a thread where the primary subject is "Allen should have played hero ball by forcing this throw." And I get it, everyone is mad so we're looking for reasons to be angry, but the reasons some people are finding are not consistent and/or don't match up with the tape.

 

My live reaction watching the game was that Allen was playing masterfully in the pocket and was hitting perfect throw after perfect throw when they were available to be made. The INT was a gut punch because until then I thought he had been just about flawless. I was actually wrong about the INT live, I thought Allen hadn't seen the undercutting defender. In his post game presser he said the cause of the INT was that he left the ball too far inside. This surprised me but the all-22 reveals he was correct:

 

His throw here was identical to a throw he made to Shakir on the 1st drive of the Broncos wildcard game. That time he stuck it right on Shakir's hands outside, this time it was a tick too far inside which let the CB undercut it. He didn't miss any better options, everybody else is blanketed too, but if you're going to make this throw it has to be perfect and it wasn't.

 

So my reaction to the game was that Allen played mostly great but had that one really bad play. Imagine my surprise when I come to the board and the conversation is about how Allen played too much hero ball and missed open targets. I just don't think the tape is supporting that narrative at all.

 

The more all-22 I watch from last night the more I think we either need a better OC or we need better receiving talent. Brady is perfectly fine but his concepts are simple and he isn't enough of a schematic genius to make up for a lack of talent. He keeps trying to add new wrinkles beyond the 5 things that we do well and he just hasn't been capable of it. Since Brady isn't going anywhere we're going to need to add a legit WR that can just get open all on his own without any assistance from the scheme because right now we don't have that guy. So when we inevitably get into these spots in a game where we absolutely have to throw the ball downfield, like in the 4th quarter of the AFCCG, we just aren't consistently capable of it.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Wanted to come back to this real quick. Yes we should discuss Allen's mistakes, post-game analysis and diagnosing why a play went wrong is part of what makes this board great. But that doesn't mean we should invent mistakes or create narratives that never happened. "Diggs got in Allen's head." "Allen reverted to hero ball." These are not proper descriptors of his game from last night. It's ironic that people are saying Allen was forcing too many throws and playing hero ball, in a thread where the primary subject is "Allen should have played hero ball by forcing this throw." And I get it, everyone is mad so we're looking for reasons to be angry, but the reasons some people are finding are not consistent and/or don't match up with the tape.

 

My live reaction watching the game was that Allen was playing masterfully in the pocket and was hitting perfect throw after perfect throw when they were available to be made. The INT was a gut punch because until then I thought he had been just about flawless. I was actually wrong about the INT live, I thought Allen hadn't seen the undercutting defender. In his post game presser he said the cause of the INT was that he left the ball too far inside. This surprised me but the all-22 reveals he was correct:

 

His throw here was identical to a throw he made to Shakir on the 1st drive of the Broncos wildcard game. That time he stuck it right on Shakir's hands outside, this time it was a tick too far inside which let the CB undercut it. He didn't miss any better options, everybody else is blanketed too, but if you're going to make this throw it has to be perfect and it wasn't.

 

So my reaction to the game was that Allen played mostly great but had that one really bad play. Imagine my surprise when I come to the board and the conversation is about how Allen played too much hero ball and missed open targets. I just don't think the tape is supporting that narrative at all.

 

The more all-22 I watch from last night the more I think we either need a better OC or we need better receiving talent. Brady is perfectly fine but his concepts are simple and he isn't enough of a schematic genius to make up for a lack of talent. He keeps trying to add new wrinkles beyond the 5 things that we do well and he just hasn't been capable of it. Since Brady isn't going anywhere we're going to need to add a legit WR that can just get open all on his own without any assistance from the scheme because right now we don't have that guy. So when we inevitably get into these spots in a game where we absolutely have to throw the ball downfield, like in the 4th quarter of the AFCCG, we just aren't consistently capable of it.

Do we see Shakir slowing up considerably here with bracketed coverage?

 

I'm no WR coach, but when running a crosser like that, wouldn't the correct move to try to...out run the guy trailing you?

 

Honest question because I don't know. 

[Simon]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

My live reaction watching the game was that Allen was playing masterfully in the pocket and was hitting perfect throw after perfect throw when they were available to be made. The INT was a gut punch because until then I thought he had been just about flawless....

So my reaction to the game was that Allen played mostly great but had that one really bad play. Imagine my surprise when I come to the board and the conversation is about how Allen played too much hero ball and missed open targets. I just don't think the tape is supporting that narrative at all.

 

I had the exact same reaction; just gobsmacked that people could be trying to hang this loss on him.

As for the pick, I just though he was a half-second late on the throw; he probably held that one a touch too long before he let it go between the hashes.

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Do we see Shakir slowing up considerably here with bracketed coverage?

 

I'm no WR coach, but when running a crosser like that, wouldn't the correct move to try to...out run the guy trailing you?

 

Honest question because I don't know. 

 

I don't think his route break was sharp enough to cleanly separate. I'm not gonna get on Shakir too much for it, that's not the strength of his game. But yeah that is the problem when you don't have any legit separators in your WR room, these sorts of throws in man coverage are always going to be crazy tight windows and the QB will need to be perfect.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I had the exact same reaction; just gobsmacked that people could be trying to hang this loss on him.

As for the pick, I just though he was a half-second late on the throw; he probably held that one a touch too long before he let it go between the hashes.

I think there is a difference in saying Josh didn’t play great vs. hanging the loss in him.  There was plenty of blame to be spread around to be sure.

[Simon]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

I think there is a difference in saying Josh didn’t play great vs. hanging the loss in him.

 

It feels like I've seen a ton of posts saying how badly he played, coming from posters who haven't really commented on anything else.

I've been just taking it as a sign of how spoiled we've become.

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Allen was off all night. But I give him the benefit of the doubt. No QB is going to be great every single game. Sometimes it's going to be a struggle. I expect him to continue to play at an MVP level. 

 

The defense....different story. Sometimes you need a D to step up and help a struggling offense. If one guy needs to be perfect to win games, this team will never win a SB. 

Our D forced 4 punts and caused a TO.  The Pats were 3/9 on 3rd down conversions.  Our D sucks, yes, but it wasn’t the problem last night. The inability to hold onto the ball, lack of a running game and penalties did us in. Not the defense that gave up 23 after Keon gave the pats a TD with his fumble and had 2 more turnover.  
 

 

[GoBills808]

16 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Do we see Shakir slowing up considerably here with bracketed coverage?

 

I'm no WR coach, but when running a crosser like that, wouldn't the correct move to try to...out run the guy trailing you?

 

Honest question because I don't know. 

not necessarily outrun

 

but in lower level football (full disclosure i did not play in the nfl 😂😂) they teach wrs to gain leverage on your man by working slightly back toward the throw and shakir keeps his route pretty flat there

 

which makes it a lot easier for a db playing trail to come over the top...if you work back toward the throw he has to go through you

[Ga boy]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Allen moves on from Samuel because #0 on the Pats is getting depth after the snap. That would have been an easy INT if Allen continued staring down Samuel and threw that ball. #0 also ends up taking away the short crossing route to Shakir so Allen bails right because that's where his options are going to be and there's no contain player on that side.

 

I'm not a fan of the concept on the left side of the field. If you want to put #0 in conflict you have to make him declare sooner. Have Kincaid run a whip route for example and force #0 to commit to him which opens up Samuel's deep route. Because #0 isn't put into conflict until Shakir crosses the field he is able to put himself into position to take both routes away. This is where Brady's lack of experience gets us into trouble.

 

Spot on Happy.  Mail resume to One Bills Drive now!

[Murdox]

37 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

They got to him with a couple blitzes out of the secondary but the Pats DL only got to Allen 2-3 times in 30+ dropbacks.

 

I'm looking more at the pressure.  Allen felt more pressure and had messier pockets with linemen routinely getting pushed back in his lanes.  Vrabel had clearly looked at the tape and Allen's tendencies and he wanted to make him uncomfortable.  It wasn't about the sacks as it was about getting in Allen's head to make him feel rushed.  Pressure on the ends with the tackles sliding into gaps where Allen often likes to step up and run.  Occasional stunts, secondary blitzes, etc.  They did a good job.  And our receivers don't scare folks.

 

On the flip side, we got to Maye a few times, but he had very clean pockets for much of the night that allowed him to complete fairly easy passes.  This was based on my second watching of the game where I was specifically looking at how our line performed.  it was kind of feast or famine for the Bills pass rush, where the Pats kept up a steady, physical presence on their DL.

Edited 1 hour ago by Murdox

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Murdox said:

Pressure on the ends with the tackles sliding into gaps where Allen often likes to step up and run.

 

Now this I totally agree with; I thought their DT's did a great job of taking away those lanes where he likes to bolt for key pickups.

[Process]

I feel like I watched a different game than some people. If you want to criticize the final pay, fine ( I don't agree). The interception, yeah. Otherwise I thought Allen played great.

 

People comparing it to the Houston game last year, saying he played like crap for most of the game, I honestly don't know what you were watching.