The final play to Shakir. Samuel was wide open for easy TD

[NoSaint]

In a game with that many flags that was a hell of a play to not throw one

[Buffalo4Life01]

Most Definitely not a good game overall by Allen and well below his standard.  I think the film will show that as well.  At least to me, it almost seems like he is so used to his receivers not gaining any separation once he gets to the top of his drop, he knows he most likely will have to hold the ball and wait for someone to 'get open'.  He had happy feet last night and bailed way too early multiple times.  Poor play by Allen but I get it.  No one is getting open off the line and he's having to buy time for any little bit of separation and he's pressing because of that and bailing early.  I think Allen has to shoulder part of the blame from last night as do the receivers. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Because he played like crap for at least two thirds of the game.

By what measure?  Was Allen committing offensive pass interference and holding?  Last season Allen had a crappy game against Houston.  But last night was not a crappy game by any reasonable standard.  Was it one of Allen's better games?  No, but it's insane to say he played like crap.

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

23 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Allen moves on from Samuel because #0 on the Pats is getting depth after the snap. That would have been an easy INT if Allen continued staring down Samuel and threw that ball. #0 also ends up taking away the short crossing route to Palmer so Allen bails right because that's where his options are going to be and there's no contain player on that side.

 

I'm not a fan of the concept on the left side of the field. If you want to put #0 in conflict you have to make him declare sooner. Have Kincaid run a whip route for example and force #0 to commit to him which opens up Samuel's deep route. Because #0 isn't put into conflict until Palmer crosses the field he is able to put himself into position to take both routes away. This is where Brady's lack of experience gets us into trouble.

 

#0 is Gonzalez the Pats #1 CB and one of the best in the NFL my opinion only so any play against him won’t be easy.. As he just broke up the play before by making sure if the ball was caught it was going be out of bounds.. 
He just came back last week after missing the first 3 games usually teams avoid throwing at him, at least last year.. (but the D had more holes than Swiss cheese last year) 

[MikePJ76]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

In a game with that many flags that was a hell of a play to not throw one

Yes, this is the main point here.  They called holding on mcgovern when it appeared his left hand was open and just grazed the linemans chest.  That call was really tightly called and then to ignore the obvious one there was bizzare.

[bouds]

Kincaid was on fire all night and only got 6 targets, played only 60% of the snaps.

 

I'm honestly tired of the rotating wheel at WR, pick your 3 best and roll them out.  I don't need Shavers getting snaps when he's just run blocking.  Ride your best players, felt that they made too big of a deal with Cook getting too much of the workload and he barely touched the ball early in last night's game.  Ride your best players.

Edited 2 hours ago by bouds

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, bouds said:

Kincaid was on fire all night and only got 6 targets, played only 60% of the snaps.

 

I'm honestly tired of the rotating wheel at WR, pick your 3 best and roll them out.  I don't need Shavers getting snaps when he's just run blocking.  Ride your best players, felt that they made too big of a deal with Cook and he barely touched the ball early in that game.  Ride your best players.

This is a great point and is 100% on Brady.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

8 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

If Allen wasn't QBing the Bills last night they lose 23 - 6 or worse.  See the Ravens versus Texans game.  Allen made some great throws and great runs. This nitpicking of Allen in the face of the obvious shortcomings that lost last nights game is bizarre to me.

 

 

More than one thing can be true.  As you said, without Allen they lose by a much wider margin. But he made some bad decisions last night.  The worst was the Read-Option.  If he hands that to Johnson it is an easy first down. The INT was a terrible throw.  He went hero mode in the 4th quarter for sure.  

 

[DapperCam]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

Because he played like crap for at least two thirds of the game.

At halftime Allen had 9+ YPA, a 90% completion percentage and was the team’s leading rusher with 7 YPC.

 

Allen actually played pretty well other than the interception (which was a big mistake, but at least partially caused by a BS offensive pass interference penalty). His receivers could not get open, and he had to buy time/create all game. That’s probably part of why his internal clock got screwed up and he bailed in a clean pocket here.

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well, yeah, you stare a guy down and he'll draw coverage. But if Josh looks off and then back, man, Samuel has a huge honey hole there after he flattens the route, and Shakir was coming across the middle to #0's zone to force him to keep short.

 

Fair point maybe about making #0 declare earlier, but this play could have worked if Josh had sat in the very clear pocket.

 

Allen did bail a clean pocket, I don't dispute that. But we need to be realistic about how quick these decisions are made and how fast defensive positioning can change. Allen feels pressure from his left and has to decide in an instant if he trusts Dawkins to sustain that block. I don't blame him at all for bailing right and trying to create since there is no contain player on that side. And in fact the decision works out exactly as it should, with Allen buying time until his WR works open. The only problem is that Gonzalez is allowed to commit a penalty that erases the throw. Tip your cap to the officials and move on, I guess.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 minutes ago, bouds said:

Kincaid was on fire all night and only got 6 targets, played only 60% of the snaps.

 

I'm honestly tired of the rotating wheel at WR, pick your 3 best and roll them out.  I don't need Shavers getting snaps when he's just run blocking.  Ride your best players, felt that they made too big of a deal with Cook getting too much of the workload and he barely touched the ball early in last night's game.  Ride your best players.

100% agree.  Cook, Kincaid, and Shakir should be getting 80% of the targets.  Leave the scraps for the others.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

CS1 wasn't wide open for an easy TD? You can see the safety over the top, he would have had plenty of time to react to the pass to get into position?

[yall]

15 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

If Allen wasn't QBing the Bills last night they lose 23 - 6 or worse.  See the Ravens versus Texans game.  Allen made some great throws and great runs. This nitpicking of Allen in the face of the obvious shortcomings that lost last nights game is bizarre to me.

 

 

He missed some reads, threw a pick, fumbled, and at times bailed on the pocket too early. I think that can qualify as a poor game by his standards.

 

 

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

In a game with that many flags that was a hell of a play to not throw one

 

Yeah and I'm not one to complain about 50/50 flags. Like plays where the WR and CB are hand fighting all the way down the field, I'm fine with the officials letting those play out. But this was textbook interference. He is slamming into Shakir's back before the ball gets there which was obvious even on the live broadcast.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, yall said:

He missed some reads, threw a pick, fumbled, and at times bailed on the pocket too early. I think that can qualify as a poor game by his standards.

 

 

Disagree, Allen played a good but not great game. If the Bills can't win games against decent teams, and yes NE is decent, when Allen only plays good then they are not a SB contender.  

[DCofNC]

31 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Josh didn’t have the laser-like focus last night. Still made plays to win the game, but Drake made more. Pats deserved the win.
 

I don’t know why Allen has gone back to bailing out of clean pockets. He’s done that a few times in the last couple weeks. Wish he was more like Mahomes and Jackson from that standpoint - run around like a squirrel in the pocket until something breaks downfield, but he’s leaving clean protection which shortens the field and invites the rush. 

 

I agree with everything you said and to that last point, Josh has looked off the last few weeks.  I see what you are seeing, he looks like he’s losing patience with the scheme and wants to make something happen rather than “take what they give you”.   Peyton Manning said it best, Josh has all the talent in the world, he has to be ok playing boring football if they are going to win.  
 

We know Josh is not stupid, he has to see the flaws of the team.  It also looks like he doesn’t trust Samuel for some reason.  He seems like a last resort even when he’s open.  I could be dead wrong about that, but it looks to me like he’s gone back to forcing the ball to his primary guy, come hell or high water.  He wants the ball to Shakir or Kincaid, other times he gets fixated on 0 and tries to push it to him.  No offense to Keon, but he looks to be exactly what a lot of people here feared, which is to say, just a jump ball guy.   I don’t know anything for sure, but I don’t think Josh trusts Brady as the play caller and at this point, I  think that’s justified.   Some of these plays have zero shot in hell of working and they always seem to come right when they kill momentum.  I know some people think he’s amazing, I personally feel he has zero feel for the game.

[NoSaint]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah and I'm not one to complain about 50/50 flags. Like plays where the WR and CB are hand fighting all the way down the field, I'm fine with the officials letting those play out. But this was textbook interference. He is slamming into Shakir's back before the ball gets there which was obvious even on the live broadcast.

agreed. 
 

i tend to accept the human element in bang bang plays, or that refs sometimes have weird angles…. But haven’t really figured how this one went sideways. 
 

It wasn’t particularly close. 

[yall]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

Disagree, Allen played a good but not great game. If the Bills can't win games against decent teams, and yes NE is decent, when Allen only plays good then they are not a SB contender.  

Oh, I agree. 

 

They aren't a Superbowl contender.

[Einstein]

25 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah you're just wrong about this.

 

The number of idiotic posters coming out of the woodwork is mind boggling.

 

Samuel only appears open because Allen is scrambling to his right (where he is very dangerous), and that shifts the defense to the side the QB is scrambling to.

 

Why? Because defenses know that QB’s don’t throw 60 yards across their body. So they let those WR’s run free.

 

What we have now is a bunch of fat old men in their mother’s basement criticizing everything the greatest QB in Bills history does…. only because we lost. Had we won, the minutea they are nitpicking would never come up.

 

He had a bad game they say? What!? He was 71% passing, had over 300 yards, and 2 TD’s. And he would have had more if Coleman knew how to catch a back shoulder fade, or didn’t fumble the ball in the open field, or if Brady didn’t want to hand the ball off to Dawson freaking Knox.

 

None of these people deserve Allen.

[MJS]

11 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

By what measure?  Was Allen committing offensive pass interference and holding?  Last season Allen had a crappy game against Houston.  But last night was not a crappy game by any reasonable standard.  Was it one of Allen's better games?  No, but it's insane to say he played like crap.

He turned the ball over twice. Both were his fault completely. He was bailing from clean pockets. He was missing open receivers. He decides to scramble too much and was tackled after a short gain or sacked because of it. This was a bad game by Allen.