Do The Bills Have A Passing Game Problem?

[wjag]

Idk.  That pass Josh threw to Kincaid in the end zone was exquisite. Too bad the Fins broke it up.  

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I want Keon to succeed as much as anyone, but he's just is so damn slow and his physicality is inconsistent.  Can we continue to win with five WR3's?...yes, but eventually you're going to need 1 guy to stretch the field.  We did a lot of dink n dunk tonight. 

 

 

"Can we win with five WR3s," you ask?

 

The question's irrelevant. We don't have five WR3s. 

 

Keon's a borderline #1. His stats so far this year are top 20 or so. Not a "true number one," of course, but an overall #1. He seems very likely to be able to go over a thousand this year. If you don't want to accept him as a #1, fair enough but he's certainly performing this year so far like a very high end #2. Not a "true number one," of course, but an overall #1.

 

Shakir's no #3 either.

 

Kincaid is a weapon as well.

 

KC is the latest to prove that you can win Lombardis without a #1, but the Pats did it for years as well. Not coincidentally with TEs being a major factor for both, and for us as well.

[UKBillFan]

5 minutes ago, wjag said:

Idk.  That pass Josh threw to Kincaid in the end zone was exquisite. Too bad the Fins broke it up.  

 

That was superb play on both sides of the ball.

[BananaB]

6 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"Can we win with five WR3s," you ask?

 

The question's irrelevant. We don't have five WR3s. 

 

Keon's a borderline #1. His stats so far this year are top 20 or so. Not a "true number one," of course, but an overall #1. He seems very likely to be able to go over a thousand this year. If you don't want to accept him as a #1, fair enough but he's certainly performing this year so far like a very high end #2. Not a "true number one," of course, but an overall #1.

 

Shakir's no #3 either.

 

Kincaid is a weapon as well.

 

KC is the latest to prove that you can win Lombardis without a #1, but the Pats did it for years as well. Not coincidentally with TEs being a major factor for both, and for us as well.

Coleman ain’t a borderline #1. Has a lot to prove, consistency is not there. And he won’t be top 20 by the end of week 3

Edited September 19 by BananaB

[nuklz2594]

[The Cincinnati Kid]

6 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

28 pass attempts (plus the 4 Josh scrambles) for 213 yards is pretty mediocre, just saying 

The Bills pass protection tonight was almost exclusively big on big, meaning the OLman had the DLman or blitzer across from them *no matter where they went.* Stunt, move with your man. Slant? Move with your man. Etc.

 

The Bills also almost never had an extra back or TE in the protection scheme. So, those two factors, paired with the Dolphins above average pass rush meant Josh was going to throw quickly and underneath. At one point during the game the Primecast said Josh had the quickest release of his career in the game. 
 

All of that to say this: IT WAS THE GAMEPLAN. Make sure to call into WGR with your thoughts.

 

And who cares if it was Palmer or Coleman being exceptional or Jaire beinh horrible? They *checks notes* got open, made the catches and won the game in moments where they had to get open and make the catches. 
 

This is like rage fandom. “My team won, but I can’t find happiness so they suck!”

 

Kick rocks.

[ganesh]

24 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"Can we win with five WR3s," you ask?

 

The question's irrelevant. We don't have five WR3s. 

 

Keon's a borderline #1. His stats so far this year are top 20 or so. Not a "true number one," of course, but an overall #1. He seems very likely to be able to go over a thousand this year. If you don't want to accept him as a #1, fair enough but he's certainly performing this year so far like a very high end #2. Not a "true number one," of course, but an overall #1.

 

Shakir's no #3 either.

 

Kincaid is a weapon as well.

 

KC is the latest to prove that you can win Lombardis without a #1, but the Pats did it for years as well. Not coincidentally with TEs being a major factor for both, and for us as well.

and we are yet to use Cook in that passing game with his blazing speed.  We are winning now and need to keep those under wraps for the playoffs.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

The drives I see stalling are the ones that have a Cook first down run for no gain

 

Throwing the ball is just more efficient offense. It's a double shame we don't want to lean into it considering we have Allen

 

 

If the drives you see are the ones that have a Cook first down run for no gain, you've got a perception problem.

 

A quick look at the box scores shows that the final first down of each failed drive looks like this.

 

In the Baltimore game there were four drives that ended with punts. Here's what the final first down of each drive looked like:

 

9 yard Cook run

Incomplete pass

2 yard Davis run

Incomplete pass

 

In the Jets game, there were three of those, not counting kneeldowns.

 

Allen sacked

-1 yard Davis run

4 yard Davis run

 

In the Dolphins game there were three drives that didn't result in scores. But the first was a missed FG. I'll include it anyway.

 

2 yard pass

1 yard Cook run

Incomplete pass

 

So, that's a perception problem. Our stalled drives had a real mix of first down play results, specifically three incomplete passes, a completed short pass, a sack, two successful runs of nine and four yards respectively. And three unsuccessful runs of two yards or less.

 

More attempted passes than unsuccessful runs.

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

sorry if already posted.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

Many of the comments here extend what has been a Bills fan issue for as long as I’ve been a fan (66 years).  There has always been a kind of pesssimistic fear about the fortunes of the team.  Even when we were doing great in the Super Bowl years there was a Chicken Littleness in the minds of some.

 

We don’t have a passing problem, what we have are two things: an offensive coordinator that has put together a truly balanced offense, and an all-world QB that has matured in his approach to the game.  Brady runs what he thinks will work; the last two games defenses have been susceptible to the run so he beat them over the head with it.  If and when they are more susceptible to the pass I fully expect us to attack that way.  Josh has matured into the type of QB that will take the easy yards vs. try and force the ball downfield.  He doesn’t have to worry about force feeding Diggs anymore, and uses the everyone eats philosophy to success.

 

I suspect at the end of week 3 we will be among the top rated offenses in the league.  Good for them.

[Thurman#1]

51 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Coleman ain’t a borderline #1. Has a lot to prove, consistency is not there. And he won’t be top 20 by the end of week 3

 

 

Well, that is certainly one opinion. Not a fact, though.

 

You're right that he won't be top 20 by the end of week 3. Best guess is he will be top 30 - 40, though, which equates to, oh yeah, a borderline number one. Extended over the course of a season, his current production would have had him in last year's WR stats as 29th (yards) and 19th (receptions). In other words, a borderline number one.

 

Has a lot to prove? Hey, yeah, no argument there. I mean, he's a second-year guy, so of course. But it's fair.

 

Consistency isn't there for anybody, when it comes to receivers, outside a few true #1s. Numbers go up and down, but when uninjured, his aggregate performance was about borderline #1 level, I'd argue.

 

After his first three games as a rookie, he started to find his footing. And from that point on until he got injured, he was putting up numbers that would have got him close to a thousand, and that's terrific as a rookie. Especially in an attack where the keywords are that everybody eats. Looking good again this year.

 

 

Edited September 19 by Thurman#1

[Billsfan1972]

McD apologists refuse to admit it, but he wants an offense to keep his D off the field.  Yes I'm worried what will happen in tighter games against great offenses.

 

The Bills were at home on a Thursday and again appeared sluggish at times.  70 yards total from Shakir and Coleman is not good.

 

With Allen 250 yards/gm should be a floor.

[PaattMaann]

no

[SoonerBillsFan]

7 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

At the end of the day the bills passing attack has been pretty mediocre outside of a couple quarters in 3 total games.

 

I think it's a combination of the receivers not creating enough separation, and Joe Brady not doing a good enough job of scheming them open. (Example, more play action on 1st downs)

 

What do you guys think?

Yes.  The play calling is not good, they wait until "break glass in case of emergency " time to let Allen loose.

 

2nd, we have no real speed, and no deep threat at all.

41 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

sorry if already posted.

 

 

This is sickening. 

24 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Many of the comments here extend what has been a Bills fan issue for as long as I’ve been a fan (66 years).  There has always been a kind of pesssimistic fear about the fortunes of the team.  Even when we were doing great in the Super Bowl years there was a Chicken Littleness in the minds of some.

 

We don’t have a passing problem, what we have are two things: an offensive coordinator that has put together a truly balanced offense, and an all-world QB that has matured in his approach to the game.  Brady runs what he thinks will work; the last two games defenses have been susceptible to the run so he beat them over the head with it.  If and when they are more susceptible to the pass I fully expect us to attack that way.  Josh has matured into the type of QB that will take the easy yards vs. try and force the ball downfield.  He doesn’t have to worry about force feeding Diggs anymore, and uses the everyone eats philosophy to success.

 

I suspect at the end of week 3 we will be among the top rated offenses in the league.  Good for them.

We still need to be able to attack all aspects of the field, and we cant seem to do that.  4 injuries to the Dolphins DB'S and we dont attack?

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Yes.  The play calling is not good, they wait until "break glass in case of emergency " time to let Allen loose.

 

2nd, we have no real speed, and no deep threat at all.

This is sickening. 

We still need to be able to attack all aspects of the field, and we cant seem to do that.  4 injuries to the Dolphins DB'S and we dont attack?

We didn’t attack down the field likely because Brady and Josh saw more effective ways to attack.  I think people are too obsessed with “down the field”.  Does that mean long bomb type attacks?  Because the last time I looked at data in that those kinds of passes accounted for about 1-2% of pass plays.

 

Right now the run and short passing game are working well.  When teams try to take that away you’ll see what happens. Right now we have a very effective offense.

[SoonerBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

We didn’t attack down the field likely because Brady and Josh saw more effective ways to attack.  I think people are too obsessed with “down the field”.  Does that mean long bomb type attacks?  Because the last time I looked at data in that those kinds of passes accounted for about 1-2% of pass plays.

 

Right now the run and short passing game are working well.  When teams try to take that away you’ll see what happens. Right now we have a very effective offense.

 

 

😁

[kkim0904]

8 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Comments like this frustrate me. Do you watch the games and have context , or do you just look at the box score?

 

You do know Miami let up 30+ plus points against Daniel jones and Drake Maye , and that the bills got 28 points with the last 7 being off a roughing the punter call, right?

It is our defense, not offense.  Our running defense is mediocre and Miami converted 10/15 Third down.. 

[Kirby Jackson]

I posted it in the game thread but this is why some of us have been screaming for a top WR for 2 years. Josh had time. Nobody could get open. The tape is not going to be kind to the WRs. That’s why he only threw one ball 10+ air yards. When everything happens within 10 yards of the LOS the defenses will adjust. It will become harder to run and those windows tighter. You have to be able to stretch the field vertically to open everything up!! You can get away with that against Miami and New Orleans. When you’re battling KC/Baltimore in January, you can’t have Josh drop back, have time, and no one to throw to. The margin for error is miniscule in those big games.

 

You need a dude on the outside. Shakir is a nice player but not a dude. Coleman still can’t get open. Kincaid is developing into a good TE but not a dude. Josh is incredible and the OL elite. The TEs are good, Cook is turning into a star and the WRs are bad. So the Bills can still score points but they are also limited. Both statements are true.

Edited September 19 by Kirby Jackson

[Behindenemylines]

This all reminds me of when Josh didn’t have a 300yrd game yet and people were losing their minds. 
 

why do we need to fully open the rain coat during a game each week. A win is a win.  
 

nobody knows why we scheme what we do or why the plays called are why they are called because as fans we are missing lots of vital info.  We see only what’s in front of us in real time. 
 

enjoy the week knowing we won and have an exciting season ahead of us and hopefully some hardware to show at the end. 

[twoandfourteen]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

KC is the latest to prove that you can win Lombardis without a #1, but the Pats did it for years as well. Not coincidentally with TEs being a major factor for both, and for us as well.

 

You neglected to mention that they had a Hall of Fame Tight End out there — one of the best to ever play the position. 

 

Allen doesn’t have anyone to ride shotgun with him.