Joe Montana said if he had to choose a QB to start a franchise with, it's JA17

[MJS]

46 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

Personally, I disagree.  Allen's moves post pocket are relatively designed - it's either a designed RPO w/ Allen Run, designed Allen run from shotgun, Allen dropback and strafe right.  Very rarely does he turn his back to the play to circle out of the pocket - which Mahomes (and Lamar) do often.  Mahomes also will strafe either left or right and then stop, reset, and then strafe further.  I dont see Allen doing that as much.

 

I think Allen's rollout right is in a way designed.  I dont see that as often with Mahomes' movements.  Just my opinion of course.

Allen extends the play ALL the time. The receivers know that they have to get into scramble drill rules ALL the time. Allen evades a rusher and extends the play very often. Yes, sometimes Allen rolls out as part of the design, but not all that often.

 

Mahomes used to be more off script, but their offense has changed. He has turned into a quick release, timing QB more often than not. He doesn't go deep very often any more. Part of it has been adjusting to poor oline play and less talented receivers for them. Yeah, he still extends plays and goes off script quite a lot, but I still think Allen does that more.

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

Is this just for active players or can retired players be included. For me its Brady. Seven Super Bowl championships. He comes through in the clutch when the pressure is on in the biggest moments. Active players its Mahomes for the same reasons I would choose Brady.

It’s for active players. Brady was asked a similar question in a different way. He had a very thoughtful answer. 

[Cray51]

33 minutes ago, MJS said:

Allen extends the play ALL the time. The receivers know that they have to get into scramble drill rules ALL the time. Allen evades a rusher and extends the play very often. Yes, sometimes Allen rolls out as part of the design, but not all that often.

 

Mahomes used to be more off script, but their offense has changed. He has turned into a quick release, timing QB more often than not. He doesn't go deep very often any more. Part of it has been adjusting to poor oline play and less talented receivers for them. Yeah, he still extends plays and goes off script quite a lot, but I still think Allen does that more.

I understand what you are saying, I'm more pointing to the fact that if something is known (Allen will roll right and push to the boundary often), is it truly "off script?"  To me, because Allen does that specific move so frequently, it's not an off-script situation where players dont know where to go.  Compared to Mahomes, who will (and you are right, he doesn't do it as much as he used to, but he still does it) turn his back on the play, drop his eyes off the field entirely, and then reset and go off-script to try to find an option.  To me, that's a more "off-script" approach compared to Allen.

 

we may just agree to disagree, but I feel when I watch Mahomes I watch a guy who will go "off-script" more frequently than Allen

[zow2]

I saw this the other day, kinda' rough to see Joe have trouble pulling the QB names.  He was awesome.  Aging is undefeated. 

[Chicken Boo]

For their scrambling ability alone, it would be Josh or Lamar. 

 

Current trajectory has Jayden Daniels creeping into that conversation.  We'll see what the season brings.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Give me Bill Walsh in this era and that team wins with 28 of the 32 starting QBs in the league right now....

 

Lets see if that blows this thread up...

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Give me Bill Walsh in this era and that team wins with 28 of the 32 starting QBs in the league right now....

 

Lets see if that blows this thread up...

 

Defenses are way more complex today than when Walsh was coaching. He would have a lot of adjusting and catching up to do.

[Sojourner]

There’s a guy who is a huge soccer fan I know and made a parallel to Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo in their primes for Josh and Mahomes. 
 

2 of the best ever. 
 

If you’re finishing a team you take Mahomes (Ronaldo).

If you’re starting with little to work with, you take Josh (Messi). 
 

I guess that quote by Montana reminded me of that. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Sojourner said:

There’s a guy who is a huge soccer fan I know and made a parallel to Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo in their primes for Josh and Mahomes. 
 

2 of the best ever. 
 

If you’re finishing a team you take Mahomes (Ronaldo).

If you’re starting with little to work with, you take Josh (Messi). 
 

I guess that quote by Montana reminded me of that. 

Right players wrong analogy

[Sojourner]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Right players wrong analogy

It wasn’t mine, I’ll let him know lol

[Victory Formation]

If I had to choose one ex-QB whose opinion I could trust it would be Joe Montana. He’s the reason I even played football as a kid.

[Harold Jackson]

Brady said basically the same thing.

So the guy that ran his division and the guy who's first team is hosting the SB and Montana's second team that's been a thorn - is saying he's the guy.

 

 

[BigDingus]

I mean, I would've thought that was a really cool honor until I saw his list.

 

1. Josh Allen

2. Joe Burrow

3. Justin Herbert

4. Jalen Hurts

 

The fact that it's missing Patrick Mahomes now makes me think he's just a hater. Either that, or he likes QBs whose names start with 'J' just like his own...

 

Even if he had put Mahomes at 3, I would've accepted it. But seeing Justin Herbert or Jalen Hurts above Mahomes throws the whole list into question.

[Sojourner]

39 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

I mean, I would've thought that was a really cool honor until I saw his list.

 

1. Josh Allen

2. Joe Burrow

3. Justin Herbert

4. Jalen Hurts

 

The fact that it's missing Patrick Mahomes now makes me think he's just a hater. Either that, or he likes QBs whose names start with 'J' just like his own...

 

Even if he had put Mahomes at 3, I would've accepted it. But seeing Justin Herbert or Jalen Hurts above Mahomes throws the whole list into question.

Agree completely. I could get on board with the list entirely if it even had Lamar instead of Herbert but the fact it omits Patrick and Lamar is it for me. Has to be one or the other instead. Hurts you can make a case for given his play in the playoffs for Philly if you chose, none for Justin imo. 

[90sBills]

7 hours ago, Sojourner said:

Agree completely. I could get on board with the list entirely if it even had Lamar instead of Herbert but the fact it omits Patrick and Lamar is it for me. Has to be one or the other instead. Hurts you can make a case for given his play in the playoffs for Philly if you chose, none for Justin imo. 

And the reasoning for that omission was very telling. Maybe he’s still sore about the two recent Super Bowls Niners lost. 

[BillsFan130]

On 9/4/2025 at 9:52 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

Too many hits for ol Joe.

 

No one is starting a franchise with Herbert over Mahomes...

Ya that is straight up just a horrible list lol. Doesn't even have Mahomes Or Lamar in his top 4..

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 9/3/2025 at 10:11 PM, Big Turk said:

Montana was on the Pat McAfee show and Bruce Arians asked him the question...

 

That's some pretty high praise coming from one of the best to ever do it and who some still consider the GOAT.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/article/joe-montana-lists-current-qbs-185746071.html

 

 

 

I feel like people who have played the game really get just how otherworldly his talent is. 

[Mikie2times]

When you jump into the debate of who is best, one thing is clear, Allen is responsible for more output than anybody. His off schedule plays are a significant amount of our production offensively. I can't imagine anybody in NFL history has generated more production off schedule than Allen. Which isn't ideal all the time, but when we value the contributions of #17 I think it extends a little further than a conversation of what an elite QB is worth to a team. I don't believe this offense can work without out him. Which you might be able to say about several others, but the decline would be so significant even with an average QB.  Which is really saying something given it was one of the franchises most productive offenses ever last year. 

Edited September 5 by Mikie2times

[NoSaint]

On 9/4/2025 at 12:14 PM, Cray51 said:

I understand what you are saying, I'm more pointing to the fact that if something is known (Allen will roll right and push to the boundary often), is it truly "off script?"  To me, because Allen does that specific move so frequently, it's not an off-script situation where players dont know where to go.  Compared to Mahomes, who will (and you are right, he doesn't do it as much as he used to, but he still does it) turn his back on the play, drop his eyes off the field entirely, and then reset and go off-script to try to find an option.  To me, that's a more "off-script" approach compared to Allen.

 

we may just agree to disagree, but I feel when I watch Mahomes I watch a guy who will go "off-script" more frequently than Allen

I feel like you are just saying he’s more chaotic while Allen knows he’s strengths and still plays to them even when things breakdown 

On 9/4/2025 at 5:16 PM, Chicken Boo said:

For their scrambling ability alone, it would be Josh or Lamar. 

 

Current trajectory has Jayden Daniels creeping into that conversation.  We'll see what the season brings.  

That’s so incredibly early for Daniels

 

right now it’s Josh as a clear 1 as most complete qb in the league (very likely in league history). 
 

It has long been my issue with reconciling my confidence in that fact with also justifying that both beane and McDermott deserve ongoing chances. With perhaps the greatest qb in the history of the game - how are there no Super Bowl appearances? Either there’s an issue in team construction, or game day strategy.

[Mikie2times]

On 9/4/2025 at 1:14 PM, Cray51 said:

I understand what you are saying, I'm more pointing to the fact that if something is known (Allen will roll right and push to the boundary often), is it truly "off script?"  To me, because Allen does that specific move so frequently, it's not an off-script situation where players dont know where to go.  Compared to Mahomes, who will (and you are right, he doesn't do it as much as he used to, but he still does it) turn his back on the play, drop his eyes off the field entirely, and then reset and go off-script to try to find an option.  To me, that's a more "off-script" approach compared to Allen.

 

we may just agree to disagree, but I feel when I watch Mahomes I watch a guy who will go "off-script" more frequently than Allen

Off script is outside the called route structure. It doesn't matter if everybody under the sun knows what tends to happen when structure is broken. You can't time that sort of thing and you can't cover a guy for 5 seconds. Its outside of the play, at which point Brady didn't contribute, most QB's aren't able to do it. It's all Allen and it's a big, sometimes, depressingly big, part of our offense. It's not a positive thing to be off script as often as we are offensively. It doesn't produce consistency in the ways traditional, on time passes do. But it's not like I blame Allen, how many match up winners do we have outside that allow him to be on time?

11 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

With perhaps the greatest qb in the history of the game - how are there no Super Bowl appearances? Either there’s an issue in team construction, or game day strategy.

From a pure production stand point, he is likely the best in the history of the sport. I think that stats back that up. He is an entire offense himself. An entire style that is unique to defensive coordinators to play against and yes, one that I will keep doubling down on as far as covering massive warts elsewhere. 

Edited September 5 by Mikie2times