Allen vs Mahomes, is this a controversial take?

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I've never said we don't have good football players 

 

In fact I'm usually one of the only people here defending McDermott and saying we have enough talent to win a super bowl 

 

We are never healthy in January and February... We had 11 players on the injury report going into our playoff game last year you're not going into Arrowhead and winning with 11 players on the injury report 

 

The talent margin is way too small... That's it 

 

If the Chiefs playoffs without their starting safety and number one corner we're going to beat them by a lot more than three in the playoffs

They played all year without their best wr and a LG at LT. If we gave Cook the ball more, maybe we win. Personally, I hate hypotheticals because they are just empty, 

 

my hope is all the resources they have invested in the d line finally playoffs off. I also think the Chiefs have a much better on paper offense this year but they have to be feeling burnt out and are playing in a much tougher division. I genuinely believe this is the bills year. 

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They played all year without their best wr and a LG at LT. If we gave Cook the ball more, maybe we win. Personally, I hate hypotheticals because they are just empty, 

 

my hope is all the resources they have invested in the d line finally playoffs off. I also think the Chiefs have a much better on paper offense this year but they have to be feeling burnt out and are playing in a much tougher division. I genuinely believe this is the bills year. 

There's a difference between losing your best wide receiver in week 5 and losing guys 6 days before a playoff game 

 

There's a reason why I never mentioned people like von Miller in the injuries because he was done so early and we are a professional team and we adjust 

 

The Chiefs had weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks to adjust for all of their injuries 

 

We literally got them on the fly in the Ravens and had to go to Kansas City in 6 days 

 

They're not comparable.. if the bills had 10 weeks of the roster they would have a better grasp.. that's actually a fact and we still barely lost 

 

Their injuries happened with a long time for them to adjust as a professional team we had six days

 

When they lost a starting safety and a starting corner versus us Gabe Davis looked like Jerry Rice.. that's what happens when you lose them and you don't have weeks of preparation time for a win or take all game

 

They lost two guys Gabe Davis look like Jerry Rice... We are always playing them without two or three or four starters and we are losing field goal games

 

When Benford went down we were without our best safety and best corner and 5 other key defenseman nursing injuries

Edited August 28 by Buffalo716

[RoscoeParrish]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

maybe you would

 

but most people w brains would see a guy dragging his team along while steadily compiling the most impressive statistical playoff profile in league history and realize calling that qb a loser is just a bad take

Think you’re overestimating the home crowd.

 

the guaranteed prevailing opinion in KC is that there’s a gap between Mahomes and Allen at 2.

 

if the situations were reversed, I think our prevailing opinion would be the same.

[BillytheKid]

8 hours ago, Billl said:

Since Allen has been in the league, the Bills have averaged allowing 19 PPG in the 9 postseason games when they aren’t playing the Chiefs.  They have averaged allowing 33 PPG in the 4 games when they are.  Is it just a giant coincidence that the Bills only forget how to play defense against the Chiefs, or could it possibly be that Mahomes and company are just on another level when the season is on the line?

 

It’s that the Bills defense sucks and It’s not because of Mahomes. It’s because of Andy Reid. Mahomes has played well but he isn’t nearly as amazing as people think he is. 
 

Most of his passes are dump offs of like 2 to 4 yards and he gets his RB/WR/TE to run for a lot of yards after the catch. Also his defense is a lot better than Buffalo’s. 
 

Mahomes also has wide open receivers compared to what Allen has to do against the Chiefs defense. 
 

Don’t believe me? Watch this video. He breaks this down very well. 
 

 

[BigDingus]

I don't think Allen is much better as a downfield passer. 

 

He rarely hits anyone in stride, and most years he hasn't been very accurate on deep balls. 

 

Sure, Mahomes isn't throwing downfield much either, but I would say neither are very good in that area lately.

 

Mahomes has that Brady pocket presence, where he's extremely elusive & has great awareness. Only difference is he can also scramble when he needs to. 

 

Josh is better as a legit run threat, and I think he's also better at making the best of broken plays. The biggest advantage Mahomes has is 1) Andy Reid & 2) he's great at the dink & dunk, finding the open guy who can then take a short pass into a long gain. 

 

I do think it's a bit silly how much people downplay Mahomes though. He's not putting up the numbers he used to, but despite that, he's still putting up basically the exact same passing numbers as Josh is. From a passing perspective, his "down years" are basically identical to Josh.

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

10 hours ago, Special K said:

This is not meant to be a slight at McDermott, but if you take Andy Reid away from Mahomes and give him to Josh Allen, the Bills would likely be the ones with 3 Super Bowl titles right now.

 

I truly think Andy Reid is the difference in these two very closely matched QB's and teams in general.

 

I think Andy would need his entire roster, GM and staff as well and even then nothing is certain.  

 

Mahomes is special and fans need to stop downplaying that.  

[BullBuchanan]

Mahomes is the better passer and the better overall QB. For all the power Josh has, he's not a very good deep ball thrower, and if I need to pick a player in the league to make one play, it's unquestionably Mahomes. Mahomes throws a better ball to Kincaid, and makes the right read on that incompletion to Shakir.

[Thrivefourfive]

12 hours ago, zow2 said:

Yeah, I kind of need a little break from roster talk.

 

I think at this stage of their careers, Allen is the better downfield passer and clearly the better runner (although Pat is a good scrambler when he needs to be and certainly has a good downfield arm when he uses it)..  However, I think many of us have seen that Mahomes is the better dink and dunker.  He's always been.   At the end of those close playoff games when KC needs a critical TD or FG, it's the dink and dunk plus Andy Reid play call mastery that gives KC a slight edge.  We've had two seasons in a row end with the ball in our hands, and the Bills can't take what the D gives and execute a short dump off to get the needed yardage.  I'm just wondering if the Bills start working on that more this season,,, or maybe they keep some plays in their back pocket for critical playoff moments.

The Bills always make it look hard. Big plays, a lot of times they’re broken plays and Allen scrambles to throw or scrambles to run (someone over). What I’d love to see is the Bills get more creative in the element of short yardage passing designs tobe called in RB running play situations. Know what I mean? The screen game to anyone but Shakir is weak to the point of completely counterproductive. We know they used to be good at tight end play designs.. where those been?? Have the play callers.. Dorsey and Brady.. been to Josh dependent on what they are signaling in and not working hard to be innovative and expansive?
 

Imagine if Josh had an experienced master play designer and game day caller. How about a defensive coordinator that knew how to screw up an opposing QB’s afternoon in the playoffs.. Because bottom line is he has not had any of that so far. 

[reddogblitz]

12 hours ago, RobbRiddick said:

Mahomes is obviously a fantastic QB with an insane will to win but I still maintain if Andy Reid retired tomorrow he would be royally screwed and all the talk about him being potentially the best of all time would become laughable 

 

Depends on who they got to replace Andy. 

 

I could see a new coach come in and keep the same playbook and let Pat do his thing and not mess anything up.  Sort of like Barry Switzer did with Troy Aikmen and the Cowboys. 

Edited August 28 by reddogblitz

[RobbRiddick]

49 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Depends on who they got to replace Andy. 

 

I could see a new coach come in and keep the same playbook and let Pat do his thing and not mess anything up.  Sort of like Barry Switzer did with Troy Aikmen and the Cowboys. 

Thing is with Reid and why he's arguably the greatest offensive play caller of all time, if teams find a way to stop what they're doing he'll eventually figure something out with the pieces he has on offense. He's like the offensive version of Belichick in that way. All those times the Pats lost players on D and would start the season conceding a lot of points, people would say"this is it for the Patriots dynasty" and then by mid season he'd figured out a way for the defense to play based on the personnel they had available.

 

Reid is the same with the offense. I always go back to a couple of years ago when the Chiefs had been struggling on offense all season. When they played the Bills in the playoffs Kelce was WIDE OPEN, I mean he couldn't have got more wide open. Mahomes simply tossed the ball to him and the announcers immediately started shouting "THAT'S the Mahomes we know!" No, that's Reid scheming people open. I really think if you look at Mahomes' best plays on YouTube, so many of them are him throwing to guys who are wide open, or throwing a little screen to Hill who then burned past everyone. Watch Allen's best plays and he's doing stuff completely off script and just making an insane play. I know Mahomes has hose plays too but I feel Allen has more because he's had to have more, because there's nothing mind blowing about the plays being called.

[sunshynman]

9 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Mahomes is the better passer and the better overall QB. For all the power Josh has, he's not a very good deep ball thrower, and if I need to pick a player in the league to make one play, it's unquestionably Mahomes. Mahomes throws a better ball to Kincaid, and makes the right read on that incompletion to Shakir.

You act like he had all day to just lob a pass to Kincaid. He was under pressure that whole snap.

[SaulGoodman]

The reality is that respect for Andy Reid increased about 1000% after Mahomes arrived. 5 years earlier, he was FIRED by his previous franchise. He drew a ton of criticism as a choker and poor clock manager throughout his career in PHI and his first 5 years in KC. 

 

Another reality is that the Chiefs had won one playoff game in 25 years before Mahomes, with zero Super Bowl appearances and only one AFCC appearance since 1969. They now have 17 playoff wins in 7 years, and Mahomes' worst season is a loss in OT of the AFCC. And as a green player in his first season, Mahomes doubled the stats of the QB he replaced, who had put up career numbers the year before. 

 

I think it's ludicrous to say that the difference between Reid and Brady/Daboll is 5 Super Bowl appearances in 6 years. 

 

Edited August 28 by SaulGoodman

[C.Biscuit97]

10 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Mahomes is the better passer and the better overall QB. For all the power Josh has, he's not a very good deep ball thrower, and if I need to pick a player in the league to make one play, it's unquestionably Mahomes. Mahomes throws a better ball to Kincaid, and makes the right read on that incompletion to Shakir.

The idea that we have a qb with maybe the strongest arm ever and we act like a dink and dunk offense is kinda wild. Offense was very successful in the regular season but it catches up in the playoffs. You need explosive plays and we don’t get them enough in our passing game. Part of it is the lack of explosive WRs and part of it is the design of the offense. But playmakers on the d line and receiving core is a major development we need to see this year so we can finally take the next step. 

[GoBills808]

11 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Mahomes is the better passer and the better overall QB. For all the power Josh has, he's not a very good deep ball thrower, and if I need to pick a player in the league to make one play, it's unquestionably Mahomes. Mahomes throws a better ball to Kincaid, and makes the right read on that incompletion to Shakir.

😂😂Mahomes doesn't even get that ball to Kincaid

[90sBills]

8 hours ago, RobbRiddick said:

 

When they played the Bills in the playoffs Kelce was WIDE OPEN, I mean he couldn't have got more wide open. Mahomes simply tossed the ball to him and the announcers immediately started shouting "THAT'S the Mahomes we know!" No, that's Reid scheming people open.

That was more of a busted play by the Bills secondary than any play design. You’re also undervaluing Kelce’s ability to get open. Kelce has said this on his podcast many times. He would change routes depending on what the defense is playing. That would leave him open in a lot of cases. The amazing thing is Mahomes seeing the same thing and knowing exactly where Kelce would be to throw with anticipation. So it would look wide open on TV. Kelce said he has done this since Alex Smith was there. Alex Smith just wasn’t on the level of Mahomes to take advantage of it. 

[zow2]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The idea that we have a qb with maybe the strongest arm ever and we act like a dink and dunk offense is kinda wild. Offense was very successful in the regular season but it catches up in the playoffs. You need explosive plays and we don’t get them enough in our passing game. Part of it is the lack of explosive WRs and part of it is the design of the offense. But playmakers on the d line and receiving core is a major development we need to see this year so we can finally take the next step. 

 

All i ask is when the game is on the line and it's first down or bust, having some easy dink & dunk plays in your arsenal to convert is nice to have...Like Mr. Andy Reid calls quite often.  We don't need a frozen rope down the field into a tiny window., or a drop back that needs 4-5 seconds of pass protection.