Bills cuts discussion

[Max Fischer]

2 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

He is not average. He is bad and slow. But he is the best we have.

 

He's average, or slightly below average, with some flashes of above average to good. Hamlin's problem is that at any one time, he's likely the weakest link on the Defense, which naturally means teams will target him, further exposing his play. This happens on every team, but especially those that have good talent elsewhere. See: Rasual Douglas (2024), Dane Jackson, Levi Wallace, etc. 

[Captain_Quint]

7 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Looks like Strong makes it and is safety #5? Rapp, Bishop, Hamlin, Lewis, Strong? 

Probably Hancock, the other rookie from OSU. 

[thurst44]

Just now, RoscoeParrish said:

The defense was such a mess last year, we spent a whole offseason trying to fix it.

In 2022, they had the number 2 defense and he started 13 games. As most people who study the film will attest, Hamlin's a quality backup who can play adequately if need be. 

 

He's not there b/c of "charity" or "character," but because he is a solid backup who is a veteran in the system and this idea that he wouldn't be on any other roster is downright silly.

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Just now, Captain_Quint said:

Probably Hancock, the other rookie from OSU. 

Thought he was primarily working at CB. I'm easily confused...

[Logic]

5 minutes ago, appoo said:

I still don't get why people get so mad about Damar Hamlin. It's like if he DIDN'T almost die, then the majoriuty of the opinion would be: average player, pretty good in the run game, can struggle in space, needs to be smart in coverage to overcome a lack of speed in the 2nd level of the secondary

 

1 minute ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I think many of us don't feel he is an average player. Many of us feel if he wasn't on the Bills roster he wouldn't be on any roster, thus far below an average player. And lastly many of us are worried that his story clouds the judgement on his ability. 

Im happy for him. Its a great story. Hopefully Bishop plays well and he hardly sees the field. 

I'm with Appoo. Hamlin gets way too much scrutiny because of his health scare.

Every team in the NFL -- EVERY SINGLE TEAM -- has backup and special teams level players. That's what Hamlin is. Do you want him starting for your team most weeks? Nope. Is he an NFL caliber player? Absolutely.

I mean...hell...he started the majority of the season last year for a team that went to the AFC Championship game and had the 12th ranked scoring defense in the league. And people wanna say he doesn't even belong on an NFL roster? It's silly.

As convinced as some people are that the emotional factor around Hamlin clouds the coaches' judgement with regard to his level of play, I'm JUST AS convinced that its THOSE FANS whose judgement of said player is clouded by the emotional factor. I'm convinced that people are way harder on him (for reasons I can guess at, but need not spiral off into and derail this thread) because of what he went through than they'd be otherwise.

 

[Matt_In_NH]

Just now, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Thought he was primarily working at CB. I'm easily confused...

I thought Hancock was running as safety almost exclusively and Strong at CB exclusively.

[Special K]

Looks like they are saving the WR and DT cuts for last.......tough decisions in those two position groups

[The Jokeman]

7 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

That is big news for Lundt in not a good way.  Either that or they are trading RVD. Can’t see them keeping 10 this year. Big news though for IOL depth since I was a bit worried about that because Grable/RVD haven’t played it in the NFL and Lundy struggled there in Preseason 

Personally Lundt showed me more than RVD, I'd prefer the moved him than Lundt. 

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, appoo said:

I still don't get why people get so mad about Damar Hamlin. It's like if he DIDN'T almost die, then the majoriuty of the opinion would be: average player, pretty good in the run game, can struggle in space, needs to be smart in coverage to overcome a lack of speed in the 2nd level of the secondary

 

Hamlin is a replacement level player, nothing more, nothing less. Every team has replacement level players at the bottom of their roster. It is better than having a player who is a complete liability, and it's just the safety position so not a huge deal. Seems like Bishop has won the job which is great but if we have to go back to Hamlin for any reason we'll manage.

[Trust The Process]

8 minutes ago, jwhit34 said:

Agree with other people on:

• Epenesa - not a wasted pick, he got a 2nd contract and is a productive player.
• Singletary - was a good player for Bills and continues to play in the league.
• The Douglas trade was a 3rd for Douglas and a 5th. Don't remember who they got with the 5th. Douglas was good, he was a player rental for '23 and that worked out well. His play fell off last year but that was a "trade for now".
• Cooper - Everyone loved it at the time, maybe it didn't work out as planned but also a trade for now and they did get to the AFC Championship game. 

Basham didn't pan out, Moss either but in 7 drafts if you have 14 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds (they may have had more) there's only 2 that didn't really work out (and Moss has played 4 years in the league) that's a very good track record. 

 

And there have been some really good ones: James Cook, Spencer Brown, Terrell Bernard, O'Cyrus Torrence, Dawson Knox, and the McDermott year it was Dion Dawkins. All core players. 

 

You and I obviously disagree on the definition of what a ''good player and productive player'' is. In my opinion, a ''good player'' is a starter or deserves to start.

A ''productive player'' is a backup or role player.

 

Having said that, from 2018-2024, Brandon Beane drafted 15 players in rounds 2 and 3, and traded away an additional two 3rd round picks for Rasul Douglas and Amari Cooper, which makes it a subtotal of 17 picks.

 

2018: Harrison Phillips

2019: Cody Ford, Devin Singletary, Dawson Knox

2020: A.J. Epenesa, Zack Moss

2021: Boogie Basham, Spencer Brown

2022: James Cook, Terrel Bernard

2023: O’Cyrus Torrence, Dorian Williams

2024: Keon Coleman, Cole Bishop, DeWayne Carter

 

In my opinion, 5 of the highlighted names above of the 15 total names drafted by Brandon Beane are wasted draft picks because they didn't live up to expectations from premium 2nd and 3rd round draft picks.

 

As far as the 2024 draft goes, it's too early to determine whether or not Coleman, Bishop and Carter are worth 2nd and 3rd round picks, but as of today Bishop and much more so Carter, aren't looking good which could very well end up being a total of 7 bad premium draft picks we didn't get a good return on investment on.

 

I changed my mind and listed Rasul Douglas as worthy of giving up a 3rd round pick because he gave us 2 good years as CB2. 

We drafted Edefuan Ulofoshio with the 5th round pick we received from the Packers in the Rasul Douglas trade. Ulofoshio is a failure and just got released.

 

Amari Cooper on other hand is a wasted 3rd round pick because the return on investment was a pathetic 1 year rental who played a total of 8 games and only got 20 receptions for 297 yards and 2 TD's, and in addition was a ghost in the AFC Championship game when we needed him the most had only 4 catches for 33 yards.

 

By my count, Ford, Singletary, Epenesa, Moss, Basham, and giving up a 3rd round pick in a trade for Amari Cooper, makes it a minimum of 6 wasted draft picks out of 12 from 2018 to 2023.

 

There's a very good odds that it'll end up being 8 wasted draft picks IF Bishop and Carter continues to struggle and not live up to expectations. 

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Matt_In_NH said:

I thought Hancock was running as safety almost exclusively and Strong at CB exclusively.

You're correct. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, RoscoeParrish said:

The defense was such a mess last year, we spent a whole offseason trying to fix it.

 

Hamlin was not good last year - but there was a number of factors on the defense last year.

 

Douglas losing a step and looking nothing like the 2023 version. 

TJ missing some time and Cam lewis being an inadequate replacement

Williams replacing an injured milano and struggling in pass coverage to the point they used Lewis and Ingram 3rd down dime packages frequently

Spector playing almost 300 snaps.  Elam playing almost 300 snaps.  

[PonyBoy]

18 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

was he an old guy? I have noticed old people aren’t big “go bills” reply people. 

 

Eaaasy with the old jokes there Danialson!! 😃

 

[RoscoeParrish]

Just now, Max Fischer said:

 

He's average, or slightly below average, with some flashes of above average to good. Hamlin's problem is that at any one time, he's likely the weakest link on the Defense, which naturally means teams will target him, further exposing his play. This happens on every team, but especially those that have good talent elsewhere. See: Rasual Douglas (2024), Dane Jackson, Levi Wallace, etc. 

no man.

 

if Hamlin is the weakest link on the 2024 defense and “average,” the defense wouldn’t have been mediocre in most stats and terrible in a couple.

 

Despite having 2 INTs, he allowed a 103 rating in coverage.

 

Despite playing nearly every snap last year, he crawled back to the Bills for a near vet minimum deal. He is the 63rd highest paid S in the league in an FA market. He’s bottom of the barrel. He’s not average.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Hamlin is a replacement level player, nothing more, nothing less. Every team has replacement level players at the bottom of their roster. It is better than having a player who is a complete liability, and it's just the safety position so not a huge deal. Seems like Bishop has won the job which is great but if we have to go back to Hamlin for any reason we'll manage.

 

Yep - knows the system too, played special teams for us before and can again.  Whenever i see other teams giving up wide open TDs it's usually when there's inexperience in the back end.  

[stevewin]

27 minutes ago, chris heff said:

This has nothing to do with this thread, I’m just annoyed. I ran into a guy wearing a Bills hat this morning, I said “go Bills”, he replied, “thanks”. The response to “go Bills” is “go Bills”, not “thanks” not “yeah I think we will be good this year”, not “my mother-in-law is from Buffalo she bought me the hat”. The correct and only response to “go Bills” is “go Bills”. Got it? Good!

One time I was at the airport wearing something Bills and this guy passes me and instead of just saying Go BIlls he sings the shout song *Hey ey ey ey" and then stops and stares like I think expecting me to sing it back?  Wtf  I gave him a quixk Go Bills and got the hell out of there

[Max Fischer]

1 minute ago, Trust The Process said:

 

You and I obviously disagree on the definition of what a ''good player and productive player'' is. In my opinion, a ''good player'' is a starter or deserves to start.

A ''productive player'' is a backup or role player.

 

Having said that, from 2018-2024, Brandon Beane drafted 15 players in rounds 2 and 3, and traded away an additional two 3rd round picks for Rasul Douglas and Amari Cooper, which makes it a subtotal of 17 picks.

 

2018: Harrison Phillips

2019: Cody Ford, Devin Singletary, Dawson Knox

2020: A.J. Epenesa, Zack Moss

2021: Boogie Basham, Spencer Brown

2022: James Cook, Terrel Bernard

2023: O’Cyrus Torrence, Dorian Williams

2024: Keon Coleman, Cole Bishop, DeWayne Carter

 

In my opinion, 5 of the highlighted names above of the 15 total names drafted by Brandon Beane are wasted draft picks because they didn't live up to expectations from premium 2nd and 3rd round draft picks.

 

As far as the 2024 draft goes, it's too early to determine whether or not Coleman, Bishop and Carter are worth 2nd and 3rd round picks, but as of today Bishop and much more so Carter, aren't looking good which could very well end up being a total of 7 bad premium draft picks we didn't get a good return on investment on.

 

I changed my mind and listed Rasul Douglas as worthy of giving up a 3rd round pick because he gave us 2 good years as CB2. 

We drafted Edefuan Ulofoshio with the 5th round pick we received from the Packers in the Rasul Douglas trade. Ulofoshio is a failure and just got released.

 

Amari Cooper on other hand is a wasted 3rd round pick because the return on investment was a pathetic 1 year rental who played a total of 8 games and only got 20 receptions for 297 yards and 2 TD's, and in addition was a ghost in the AFC Championship game when we needed him the most had only 4 catches for 33 yards.

 

By my count, Ford, Singletary, Epenesa, Moss, Basham, and giving up a 3rd round pick in a trade for Amari Cooper, makes it a minimum of 6 wasted draft picks out of 12 from 2018 to 2023.

 

There's a very good odds that it'll end up being 8 wasted draft picks IF Bishop and Carter continues to struggle and not live up to expectations. 

 

You put a lot of work into this. But you're still dead wrong. 

[gonzo1105]

Just now, The Jokeman said:

Personally Lundt showed me more than RVD, I'd prefer the moved him than Lundt. 

I just think it makes sense to trade him for business purposes if you think Lundt can develop. You get Lundt on 4 years of cheap contract. Acquire a draft pick for RVD and avoid giving him the RFA tag that is like 3.5 million now in addition to the extra 3 years of team control you would get vs RVD.  From a business perspective it makes sense to move him 

[Matt_In_NH]

2 minutes ago, Trust The Process said:

In my opinion, 5 of the highlighted names above of the 15 total names drafted by Brandon Beane are wasted draft picks because they didn't live up to expectations from premium 2nd and 3rd round draft picks.

your expectations don't align with reality.  You don't seem to understand how drafting and performance actually works.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, RoscoeParrish said:

no man.

 

if Hamlin is the weakest link on the 2024 defense and “average,” the defense wouldn’t have been mediocre in most stats and terrible in a couple.

 

Despite having 2 INTs, he allowed a 103 rating in coverage.

 

Despite playing nearly every snap last year, he crawled back to the Bills for a near vet minimum deal. He is the 63rd highest paid S in the league in an FA market. He’s bottom of the barrel. He’s not average.

 

Umm... Rasul Douglas.  I'd argue Dorian Williams at times.  Cam Lewis.  Kaiir Elam.