Training Camp 8/6

[34-78-83]

3 hours ago, NickelCity said:

I'm somewhat surprised, I thought he was the toast of camp for the first few days. Maybe I'm misremembering.

Moore has, at times through camp so far, been far more impressive than this guy leads on. It makes sense though that he said this after looking at his overall narrative on X. I can tell you that Moore has looked extremely explosive in short area space. No where near close to being cut-worthy at this point either. Mike is full of crap.

Edited August 6 by 34-78-83

[QLBillsFan]

30 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I'm not saying he isn't a good player, or maybe even in that top 10-15 tier.  I just don't agree with a graph, that is trying to tell me he's as good as Patrick Surtain, and way better than Stingley. That's all.

 

But as I said in the post, I do acknowledge that he's improved a little bit each year, and is having his best camp to date.  Hopefully this is the year. 

 

All that being said, our biggest issue has been the lack of pressure by our dline, especially in the playoffs against inferior olines.   

Benford is elite .. Surtain was a non factor vs Bills in playoff game. No shut downs in NFL as that’s a joke. Benford is in the same conversation as Surtain.. had he been a first rounder the comparison would be constant. 

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Benford  isn’t listed in the snap counts so apparently didn’t play in the playoff game, anyway. 

 

Didn't he know you can't stop Chase on the couch?

[Allen2Moulds]

4 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Benford is elite .. Surtain was a non factor vs Bills in playoff game. No shut downs in NFL as that’s a joke. Benford is in the same conversation as Surtain.. had he been a first rounder the comparison would be constant. 

We'll have to agree to disagree. As the season plays out, I certainly hope your right. That being said, availability is becoming a concern. Left early in the KC game last year, and missed the 23 game against KC, and 22 playoff game against Cincy. Maybe he can finish this year, and be the difference in the game.

[HappyDays]

 

[FLFan]

26 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Moore has, at times through camp so far, been far more impressive than this guy leads on. It makes sense though that he said this after looking at his overall narrative on X. I can tell you that Moore has looked extremely explosive in short area space. No where near close to being cut-worthy at this point either. Mike is full of crap.

Way too much angst over a random tweet from some nobody. I will wait for credible sources and my own eyes on Saturday. 

[BuffaloMatt]

Who is Mike Rose? Seems like a tool bag. 

 

 

 

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I would swap Dawkins and Benford. I think without a doubt, Deon has been one of the best and most consistent LT in the league.

Feel free to flame away, but I believe that we overrate Benford here. He's a top tier zone CB, but I have yet to see the man skills to shut down any of the top guys. If we're calling him a superstar CB, that has to be part of the equation for me. 

Iirc Benford rates quite high in man coverage as well, 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I thought there was a chance things might be different in training camp, but virtually every report I've heard is that when all are healthy is Palmer and Coleman on the outside and Shakir in the slot

 

Curious if not Palmer and Coleman, who else did you think might take one of those spots over?  For me it was always going to be those 2 and Shakir in the slot, and then Samuel and Moore would mix in and around.  

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

Hold out is no reporting to camp, no contact with team.

Hold in is when they show up still but dont participate

Every day of non participation is another two- hundred & fifty thousand off his new deal, if I’m Beane…,  he’s out 1/2 a million already…, 

Edited August 6 by Don Otreply

[34-78-83]

My double take "who is that guy again?" WR of camp so far in the 3 I've been to is Jalen Virgil. He's small but compact with speed and very good overall skills at the position.

[HappyDays]

49 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Moore has, at times through camp so far, been far more impressive than this guy leads on. It makes sense though that he said this after looking at his overall narrative on X. I can tell you that Moore has looked extremely explosive in short area space. No where near close to being cut-worthy at this point either. Mike is full of crap.

 

I don't think anyone disputes that Moore looks explosive as a route runner and on the run. It's his ability to apply those traits in live reps that is in question. All the other nuances of the position - reading coverages, presenting himself as an available target to his QB, etc. - are what he's been missing throughout his career.

 

FWIW I don't believe he'll be cut either, even if Samuel was completely healthy. I don't think he's a roster lock either though. He's a former draft bust that didn't sign with a team until May and he hasn't made a big impact at camp. I won't be totally shocked if Shavers makes the roster over him, if we keep 5 WRs as usual.

[Sojourner]

1 hour ago, QLBillsFan said:

Benford is elite .. Surtain was a non factor vs Bills in playoff game. No shut downs in NFL as that’s a joke. Benford is in the same conversation as Surtain.. had he been a first rounder the comparison would be constant. 

That whole defense had a bad game… Surtain is easily the better player however Benford isn’t that far off from elite statistics. 
 

The Bills put a whooping on them, offensively and defensively. 

Look at Revis when the Jets made the playoffs. Several players was causing him all types of trouble. 
 

The same for Primetime. Michael Irvin took him to the woodshed in the 90s severs times. 
 

 

Sometimes the best have bad games, even worse if it’s the playoffs. 

Edited August 6 by Sojourner

[34-78-83]

28 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't think anyone disputes that Moore looks explosive as a route runner and on the run. It's his ability to apply those traits in live reps that is in question. All the other nuances of the position - reading coverages, presenting himself as an available target to his QB, etc. - are what he's been missing throughout his career.

 

FWIW I don't believe he'll be cut either, even if Samuel was completely healthy. I don't think he's a roster lock either though. He's a former draft bust that didn't sign with a team until May and he hasn't made a big impact at camp. I won't be totally shocked if Shavers makes the roster over him, if we keep 5 WRs as usual.

I don't disagree with much of that. I was really just responding to "incredibly underwhelming" which is just not true when he's been out there.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

 

Beane needs to make his Mid season trade for a WR NOW instead of mid season.

Why does he need to do it now?

2 hours ago, balln said:

He’s gonna be a non factor this year and likely his ceiling is AJe / washed Trent Murphy 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I'm not saying he isn't a good player, or maybe even in that top 10-15 tier.  I just don't agree with a graph, that is trying to tell me he's as good as Patrick Surtain, and way better than Stingley. That's all.

 

But as I said in the post, I do acknowledge that he's improved a little bit each year, and is having his best camp to date.  Hopefully this is the year. 

 

All that being said, our biggest issue has been the lack of pressure by our dline, especially in the playoffs against inferior olines.   

AND not having Benford out there.  

[K-9]

What makes Benford’s season even more impressive last year is that he excelled on a very average defense, at best. Then again, opposing OCs had other weaknesses to exploit and chose them instead of testing Benford. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

They ask like 10 different ways "how does Cook being out change how you prepare?"

 

 

On a side note, can someone explain to me what a "hold in" is? I've only ever heard it be called a hold out.

Hold in means you show up and dont participate, but you don't get fined. If you hold out there is a substantial penalty for each day held out. And im pretty sure it is in the CBA that once fined the club can't just waive the fines like they did in the past. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

Benford is elite .. Surtain was a non factor vs Bills in playoff game. No shut downs in NFL as that’s a joke. Benford is in the same conversation as Surtain.. had he been a first rounder the comparison would be constant. 

I think Benford is mildly overvalued by Bills fans and severely undervalued by national media. To not even get a single mention in the national anonymous GM pole was eye opening. Makes you question what we are seeing. Benford by no measure is in Surtain's class, but he is probably no worse than 12th best starter in NFL.

[Augie]

56 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Why does he need to do it now?

 

 

The natives are restless, apparently. They must be appeased!  

 

😊