Let’s rank the starting QBs in 2025

[frostbitmic]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Who the heck is Shough?

Thank you for using all last names.

The Saints drafted Shough back in April.

[Kirby Jackson]

23 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Over the last 3 yrs Mahomes has also knocked those 3 guys from the title game. That’s gotta count for something. 

I get it and think the world of Mahomes. I just think they’ve been better. Hurts eliminated Mahomes last year but I still think Mahomes is better.

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 hour ago, julian said:

Allen

Lamar

Burrow

Mahomes

 

these are the only currently elite QBs… once you get to 5-10 it’s all about preferences and projection.

It's crazy and depressing that only 1 of those qbs has a Lombardi, yet the NFL continues to give most of the favors to the one who's team has multiple.

[Alphadawg7]

56 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Fair and figured that would be controversial. Over the last 2 years, all 3 have been better IMO. It was so hard for me to put him there but those guys have Ben better for 2 years. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

But have they really been better QB's or just guys who got better stats because Mahomes has had arguably the least to work with weapon wise due to injuries or personnel decisions?  Burrow hasn't even made the playoffs the past 2 years as his team notoriously starts each season off in a hole and Lamar hasn't been as good in the post season as he has been in the regular season over his career.

 

Its all in the eye of the beholder, so no wrong answers, just I can get behind the debate of Allen or Mahomes, but Burrow and Lamar over Mahomes just feels like a reach.  

 

Here is an interesting question - Who are you going to give the ball too in the postseason with the game on the line and one final drive to win it?  NOTE:  Saw a wild stat that Mahomes is the only QB in history with a 100% success rate doing that and no one else in history is even at 50% and Mahomes has done it 7 out 7 times I believe it said.  

 

Edited Monday at 07:34 PM by Alphadawg7

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But have they really been better QB's or just guys who got better stats because Mahomes has had arguably the least to work with weapon wise due to injuries or personnel decisions?  Burrow hasn't even made the playoffs the past 2 years as his team notoriously starts each season off in a hole and Lamar hasn't been as good in the post season as he has been in the regular season over his career.

 

Its all in the eye of the beholder, so no wrong answers, just I can get behind the debate of Allen or Mahomes, but Burrow and Lamar over Mahomes just feels like a reach.  

 

Here is an interesting question - Who are you going to give the ball too in the postseason with the game on the line and one final drive to win it?  NOTE:  Saw a wild stat that Mahomes is the only QB in history with a 100% success rate doing that and no one else in history is even at 50% and Mahomes has done it 7 out 7 times I believe it said.  

 

 

 

 

 

Mahomes would be my answer because he’s been so clutch. Along the same argument though, you’d pick Hurts over Lamar or Burrow in the same situation. He’s been more clutch. I wouldn’t take Hurts over either of those 2 (and I’m higher on Hurts than most). I try to look at it as if, “every QB was in the exact same situation what would happen?” There are so many other factors. I know Mahomes is clutch. I know Hurts is clutch. It doesn’t mean that I think either is better than Lamar each week in 2025. It depends on how you define best I guess. 

[Alphadawg7]

41 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Actually Mahomes being #4 is not so controversial. Because it's based on how they're playing right now, not their career achievements. Chris Simms ranked Mahomes #4 in his list, Joe Marino did a QB ranking recently and also had Mahomes #4.

 

I mean lots of people have opinions in sports media, but I bet Chris Simms saying he is 4th would be in the minority - and Marino is a youtuber.  I would bet you if you polled every coach, GM, and player in the NFL that Mahomes would not come in as low as 4 and would probably be first.  

 

41 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's kind of undeniable that the other top 3 are playing at least at his level or higher. For me Allen and Jackson clearly were the two best QBs last year, Burrow and Mahomes I could place in either order. I gave Mahomes the edge because he has that uncanny ability to pull out a close game at the end. But his overall play last year would have lost more games for both the Ravens and Bills IMO.

 

Stats are not a function of just ability, but also the personnel around him.  What Mahomes had to work with compared to Burrow and Lamar last year is not even comparable.  Mahomes is in his prime, its not like he is 35 and maybe isn't as good as he once was.  As I said, Allen and Mahomes debate has some validity to it, but Burrow cant even get his team to the playoffs and starts in a hole every year and Lamar doesn't have the same post season success as he does in the regular season.  Meanwhile, Mahomes wins games and comes through in the clutch moments despite not having the same level of weapons Burrow has had or what Lamar had last year.  

[Don Otreply]

1) Josh Allen 

 

then all the other losers 

[GunnerBill]

Tier 1 - the elite

1. Mahomes

2. Allen

3. Burrow

4. Jackson

- - -

Tier 2 - the franchise

5. Hurts

6. Herbert

7. Prescott

8. Daniels

9. Goff

10. Love

11. Mayfield

12. Stafford

13. Stroud

- - -

Tier 3 - the starter

14. Tagovailoa

15. Purdy

16. Nix

17. Smith

18. Lawrence

19. Murray

- - - 

Tier 4 - the question mark

20. Rodgers

21. Darnold

22. Maye

23. Williams

24. Young

- - - 

Tier 5 - the bridge

25. Fields

26. Wilson

27. Richardson

28. Flacco

- - -

Tier 6 - the unknown

UR. Penix

UR. McCarthy

UR. Ward

UR. Shough

 

Edited Monday at 08:50 PM by GunnerBill

[RobbRiddick]

56 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

 

Chiefs fans will be wailing into the abyss at this. "Disrespect", "how many rings do the other 3 have", "more motivation for Pat" etc.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Mahomes would be my answer because he’s been so clutch. Along the same argument though, you’d pick Hurts over Lamar or Burrow in the same situation. He’s been more clutch. I wouldn’t take Hurts over either of those 2 (and I’m higher on Hurts than most). I try to look at it as if, “every QB was in the exact same situation what would happen?” There are so many other factors. I know Mahomes is clutch. I know Hurts is clutch. It doesn’t mean that I think either is better than Lamar each week in 2025. It depends on how you define best I guess. 

 

I get what you are saying about Hurts and "clutch" stuff...But Mahomes isn't just clutch, hes proved elite QB play and statistical dominance, and more single season dominance than even Allen, Lamar, or Burrow has shown in their best seasons, when he had legit weapons in different seasons.  But since Hill was traded, Kelce has slowed down some with age, his WR's have been mostly trash or hurt, and he has had a mediocre run game and meh OL the past 3 years.  Still - 3 straight SB's and 2 rings.  

 

Burrow has missed the playoffs 2 straight years throwing to Chase and Higgins.  Lamar had better weapons and Henry who had one of the best RB seasons ever yet didn't last long enough to even face Mahomes in the AFCCG.  

 

It's all subjective, so really no wrong answers here - but IMHO I think you are weighing recent stats a bit too much over talent/ability and not giving the difference in personnel enough consideration into why the stats favor the others more recently.  

 

[HappyDays]

50 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

IMHO I think you are weighing recent stats a bit too much over talent/ability and not giving the difference in personnel enough consideration into why the stats favor the others more recently.  

 

I'm really not looking at stats at all. And I am taking the supporting cast into account, that's why I have the most recent Super Bowl champion at #11 on my list. Mahomes just hasn't played at the highest level over the past two seasons. Allen, Jackson, and Burrow all got MVP hype last year. The QB of the 15-1 team got no MVP hype at all. That tells you where the national perception is at right now. Part of it is people recognizing that their defense and special teams was the primary engine to that record. And those parts of the team definitely gave him some leeway that the other top 3 QBs did not have, even accounting for his middling supporting cast.

 

I hear you on the clutch factor. I just don't think you can weigh it so heavily that you ignore the QB's play for the other 58 minutes of a football game. If you were weighing playoff football heavier then Jackson might be #4 on the list, maybe even out of the top 4 entirely. But I'm just looking at their play on the whole over the entire season.

 

Edited Monday at 08:43 PM by HappyDays

[mushypeaches]

I think it’s interesting that there’s only 6 active QB’s that have SB rings as starters, and 4 of them might not be in the league next year

 

Hurts

Mahomes

Stafford

Flacco

Rodgers

Wilson

 

 

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

39 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm really not looking at stats at all. And I am taking the supporting cast into account, that's why I have the most recent Super Bowl champion at #11 on my list. Mahomes just hasn't played at the highest level over the past two seasons. Allen, Jackson, and Burrow all got MVP hype last year. The QB of the 15-1 team got no MVP hype at all. That tells you where the national perception is at right now. Part of it is people recognizing that their defense and special teams was the primary engine to that record. And those parts of the team definitely gave him some leeway that the other top 3 QBs did not have, even accounting for his middling supporting cast.

 

I hear you on the clutch factor. I just don't think you can weigh it so heavily that you ignore the QB's play for the other 58 minutes of a football game. If you were weighing playoff football heavier then Jackson might be #4 on the list, maybe even out of the top 4 entirely. But I'm just looking at their play on the whole over the entire season.

 

 

First...let me just say, this is all subjective, no wrong answers here  

 

Mahomes is more than just clutch though.  When he had proper weapons he was setting NFL records.  With bad weapons his personal stats have taken a little hit...but it doesn't change the fact they still win, and win a lot and because of him.  

 

Mahomes has been a starter for 7 years and gone to the AFCCG or more in all 7 season consecutive seasons and was the #1 seed 4 times.  He has 5 SB appearances in those 7 years with 3 Rings to go along with multiple MVPs and SB MVP's.  And he was the main reason for all that success, not like he was coasting behind a dominant team where he wasn't leaned on.  

 

Fun question:  Do the Chiefs reach 3 straight Super Bowls if Lamar is there instead of Mahomes?  What about Burrow instead of Mahomes?  I don't think they reach any Super Bowls the past 3 years with either guy over Mahomes personally and Josh probably was 1 or 2 under his belt instead.  

 

So for me, a QB who hasn't made the playoffs since 2022 and another who hasn't been able to perform at the same levels in the postseason are not leap frogging a guy who just went to his 3rd straight SB despite an inferior cast around him for the past 3 years and has a 100% success rate of reaching the AFCCG every year as a starter for all 7 seasons.

 

NOTE:  I do think playoff performance means more than regular season performance too as you can only be a champion winning in the post season when the pressure and level of opposition are all higher.  

 

 

Edited Monday at 09:23 PM by Alphadawg7

[julian]

The 4 elite QBs all being in the AFC is madness, it makes the Chiefs 3 titles even more impressive.

 

 Just getting one title outta the AFC field during this era will be looked back upon as monumental.

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

It doesn't have to count for anything. QBs have a lower impact on single game wins than most fans think. They're probably worth like 30% or less of the team's overall success. Which of course makes them by far the most important player on the team, but the rest of the team taken as a whole is still more impactful. This is the same line of thinking that makes a lot of Eagles fans argue to the death that Hurts is a top 5 QB, but when you watch him play there is a clear drop off.

It doesn’t have to but it does. The #1 priority for any NFL team to win in this era is an elite qb. This isn’t even a debatable fact. A team with an elite qb and mediocre teammates would have a better chance than a team with a mediocre qb and superior teammates. It’s the most important position on the team so it would count for a lot if the same qb keeps leading his team past the other qbs to get to the superbowl. 

[dave mcbride]

23 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

NOTE:  I do think playoff performance means more than regular season performance too as you can only be a champion winning in the post season when the pressure and level of opposition are all higher.  

 

 

Excellent point. Note the following: In 21 postseason games, his teams are 17-4 against top competition. He has 46 passing TDs, 10 INTs, 8.2 YPA,  67.7% completion rate, a 105.4 rating and 7 rushing TDs. No other QB compares. Plus he didn't just win 3 SBs; he has 3 SB MVPs. And this past season, his postseason QB rating was 101.4.

 

[HappyDays]

45 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

When he had proper weapons he was setting NFL records.  With bad weapons his personal stats have taken a little hit...

 

I think he was also just playing better two seasons ago though. 2022 for my money was the most impressive season of his career, right after trading Tyreek Hill he had to play a new brand of football and immediately delivered an elite performance. Not sure what happened after that season, maybe just fatigue from a lot of deep playoff runs, but he is not playing that well these days. And again I'm not talking about stats, just actual play on the field based on the eye test. So I have to rank based on how these QBs are performing now, not on what they were doing over two years ago.

 

I could see an argument to arrange the top 4 any way you'd like. It depends on what factors you're weighing, how far back you're analyzing, what play style you prefer, etc. I would expect any fan of one of those 4 teams to rank their QB #1 and I would respect it. There are solid counterarguments for all of them too. That's what makes the conversation interesting.

 

Edited Monday at 10:03 PM by HappyDays

[Mikie2times]

5 hours ago, boyst said:

Let me mall over this but my first reaction is tua is a lot better than giving credit for when he is healthy. 

I think he's a franchise killer. 2-13 his last 15 games vs winning teams. Sure it's a team game, but no top 10 QB is producing that record in those situations. System QB, can't perform vs elevated competition (this with elite weapons). That is all when fully healthy and forgetting that any team who invests in him basically has a time bomb on the entire season that can go off at anytime. I would rather take developmental QB's or be QB less in draft mode than have Tua. 

Edited Monday at 10:07 PM by Mikie2times

[Billl]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm really not looking at stats at all. And I am taking the supporting cast into account, that's why I have the most recent Super Bowl champion at #11 on my list. Mahomes just hasn't played at the highest level over the past two seasons. Allen, Jackson, and Burrow all got MVP hype last year. The QB of the 15-1 team got no MVP hype at all. That tells you where the national perception is at right now. Part of it is people recognizing that their defense and special teams was the primary engine to that record. And those parts of the team definitely gave him some leeway that the other top 3 QBs did not have, even accounting for his middling supporting cast.

 

I hear you on the clutch factor. I just don't think you can weigh it so heavily that you ignore the QB's play for the other 58 minutes of a football game. If you were weighing playoff football heavier then Jackson might be #4 on the list, maybe even out of the top 4 entirely. But I'm just looking at their play on the whole over the entire season.

 

So Mahomes isn’t as good because he doesn’t pad his stats during garbage time?  He’s won 17 straight one-score games.  When it matters most, he’s the best by a comfortable margin.

[The Jokeman]

6 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Over the last 3 yrs Mahomes has also knocked those 3 guys from the title game. That’s gotta count for something. 

Did Mahomes do it or did his team's defense? Just asking.