RB and WR markets are actually insane.

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

You keep wanting to ignore the wildly productive part of the Diggs story while using the bad part as one of your main bricks. It doesn't work that way in fair arguments. He was here for four years, not one

Holy smokes.

 

YOU brought up Diggs.

 

I never said Diggs was a bad trade. Not once.

 

I never said Diggs wasn’t anything but a great trade. But that’s what he was, a TRADE, not a free agent.

 

A player of Diggs quality at 26 or 27 years old doesn’t hit FA. You don’t get a chance at that type of player, WITHOUT TRADING FOR HIM, unless you draft him yourself. You get chances at Brown’s, Beasley’s, and more recently, Samuel’s, Hollins’ and Palmers’.

 

No one is saying the Bills are doing it all wrong, or that the offense sucks or whatever arguments you are dreaming up. You didn’t just make 2 mistakes. You make a mistake every post because you don’t understand the discussion and are just trying to win argument with yourself lol.

[Sierra Foothills]

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

"Dramatically"? Please...Ty Johnson has made some of the craziest catches for a RB that I have ever seen in my life over the past few years down field, including multiple ones in the Lions game and perhaps the best catch for an RB I have ever seen in my life in the Bronco playoff game sliding across the back of the end zone on 4th down to make an almost impossible catch that 95% of the WRs in the NFL likely would not have made.

 

The Bills offense is a machine that averages over 30 points a game last year and set franchise records for points and touchdowns and was the most efficient in the history of the NFL.

 

Exactly how would you "dramatically" improve on the best offense in team history and one of the most efficient offense in NFL history?

 

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

That might be the craziest post in this thread.

 

All feels, no common sense.

 

You don't early-extend a RB AND pay him top of the market on the basis that you assume he will:

 

-Go from a liability in pass pro to very good

-Become a much better pass receiver

-Prove he can handle a much greater workload like the other top paid RB's

-And not fall completely off the cliff a couple years from now like Dalvin did in his 3.2 ypc age 28 season.

 

Those are the reasons why you AT LEAST wait to pay him until he proves he can improve.

 

Top of the market is still going to be there.   What are you risking by making him prove it?

 

And I mean Ty Johnson put up a greater ypc at 5.2 versus 4.9 and his ridiculous 15.8 yards per reception was almost twice that of Cook(8.1).

 

And Johnson can actually pass block.

 

That's why Allen could call him the best 3rd down back in the NFL and have a strong case.

 

That being the case the only way the offense could "dramatically" improve on third downs is if Cook is better than those gaudy numbers.   Even if Johnson falls off a cliff now,  the standard for the RB position for the Bills on 3rd down is astronomically high.

 

Hilariously crazy takes by you.

 

I'm not gonna go in circles on this... I have much better things to do. Just as a minor, parting rejoinder,

• I never said "top of the market"... don't put words in my mouth.
• As I said upthread, this conversation is pointless unless we discuss actual, real numbers... but there is a deal out there that would satisfy both sides well.
• Ty Johnson? I like the 3 team, 6 season journeyman as much as anyone. He's an excellent player. He put up nice numbers with his 58 touches last year and it was great of Josh to puff him up like that. James Cook has the highest yards per touch of any NFL back in the last 2 years and possibly even the last 3 years. He has 630 career touches.

As ALWAYS @BADOLBILZ, the last word is yours.

 

Enjoy the carousel guys.

 

[Richard Noggin]

9 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

You and others here are making lots of assumptions about James Cook, basically that he'll never improve as a player:

• Pass protection is below par
• Pass catching is inconsistent
• Cannot handle a heavier workload
• His career curve will be no better than his brother's

I don't make these assumptions. By all accounts James is a diligent and competitive player. He's 25 years old.

 

Last year he asked for and received goal-line responsibilities and knocked that one out of the park. He was the best goal-line back that anyone following the Bills can remember.

 

Many here seem to believe that were he to take snaps away from Ty Johnson that the Bills offense would be worse for it.

 

I feel the complete opposite. I believe the Bills offense would improve dramatically.

 

I also believe that Cook's best years are ahead of him. JMO.

 

 

It's all super fair to consider, but by your own admission is an unknown level of improvement across multiple points, and the Bills obviously are not BANKING on Cook making all of these improvements suddenly entering year 4. So...he kinda should NOT get his number until he proves he's already somehow made these strides. Right? He's not asking for a team-friendly number, so the Bills shouldn't be willing to gamble on a few vital areas of growth that they apparently haven't seen signs of, imho. 

[Mikie2times]

I was sold to extend Cook after the 4th down TD run in the AFC championship game. That run is at the center of the debate in my opinion. We blame coaching a lot around here but we also blame top end talent. That is an example of top end talent and what it means. Ray Davis or Ty Johnson and it’s a turnover on downs. That was one of the best runs a Bills player has EVER made IMO. So what are we talking about between what we thought he would cost and what it looks like it will cost for him to be happy? About 5 million dollars? Well, for 5 million dollars I would rather have an impact player vs a replacement level player and another back DL or DB. That is what people here are trying to protect for us. A back up level player. 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

I'm not gonna go in circles on this... I have much better things to do. Just as a minor, parting rejoinder,

• I never said "top of the market"... don't put words in my mouth.
• As I said upthread, this conversation is pointless unless we discuss actual, real numbers... but there is a deal out there that would satisfy both sides well.
• Ty Johnson? I like the 3 team, 6 season journeyman as much as anyone. He's an excellent player. He put up nice numbers with his 58 touches last year and it was great of Josh to puff him up like that. James Cook has the highest yards per touch of any NFL back in the last 2 years and possibly even the last 3 years. He has 630 career touches.

As ALWAYS @BADOLBILZ, the last word is yours.

 

Enjoy the carousel guys.

 

 

Oh here we go with the peace-outs when you don't want to defend your nonsense. 

 

As a teenager my aunt was visiting and asked me how summer work was going and I complained to her about a lack of systems in place in the family business.   

 

She asked me what I would do about it.  

 

I said I didn't know, and that it was basically outta my pay/experience grade, but there had to be a better way.  

 

The equivalent of your vague "there is a deal that would satisfy both sides as well".   

 

She told me you will need to learn that if you don't have a solution to offer then you should just "shut the f#ck up".  

 

That's where you went wrong here.   You lowered the bar of the argument for a Cook extension by voicing vague, nonsensical complaints that you clearly hadn't thought thru and then didn't offer anything remotely resembling a solution.   You sound like a real job-site instigator.  😂

[ganesh]

I feel James wants to play somewhere else like Florida or Texas without state income tax as well as being warm weather. That is probably why he is asking for $20M per year to stay back in Buffalo.  He is hoping for a trade by the Bills to one of the warmer weather teams. 
 

the bills can deny all that for him and force him to play out his contract which would mean you are going to have an unhappy player in your locker room. That may force Bills to trade him 

[BullBuchanan]

On 6/14/2025 at 2:03 AM, Sierra Foothills said:

Final thought... there are plenty of posters here who want to go "all-in" to win a Super Bowl and cite actions such as trading for DJ Metcalf etc. If you want to go all-in to win a Super Bowl, how about simply paying James Cook a few more million dollars?

 

so you're supporting paying a guy 6-8 x more than hes making right now, when he's not contributing enough to put us over the edge on a sub $3M deal? That just makes it harder to take the next step. there are 15-20 guys that could give us what James Cook is giving us. Here's good - very good even, but he isn't special. He's replaceable, and I'd sooner draft another couple guys + bring in some UDFAs and find fresh legs than pay a hefty second contract to an RB. There are far bigger priorities.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

so you're supporting paying a guy 6-8 x more than hes making right now, when he's not contributing enough to put us over the edge on a sub $3M deal? That just makes it harder to take the next step. there are 15-20 guys that could give us what James Cook is giving us. Here's good - very good even, but he isn't special. He's replaceable, and I'd sooner draft another couple guys + bring in some UDFAs and find fresh legs than pay a hefty second contract to an RB. There are far bigger priorities.

Mostly agree...if James was a true 3 down back with better blocking skills and the project-ability to be a 1500 yd rushing rb, then yes give him $15/yr on a 3 or extension.  There are not 15-20 guys out there that can give you 18 tds in a season.  But realistically he ranks around 5-7 in NFL Rb's.  And based on current salaries, that puts him in the $10-12/yr range. 

 

That KC play (TD) did show an unbelievable level of heart. Obviously I'm very torn over this issue.  I want him payed fairly based on his production. But not over-payed at the risk of losing that cap $ toward an actual capable pass rusher.

Edited Monday at 08:20 PM by LABILLBACKER

[Orlando Buffalo]

I think part of the reason that WR make so much more money is they can be great with an average offensive line whereas a RB needs a good offensive line. I honestly can only name one good RB in the past 40 years who did it with a poor offensive line, and that is Barry Sanders. I might be missing one but I know plenty of great receivers with poor lines and mediocre QBs. 

[Mikie2times]

4 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

so you're supporting paying a guy 6-8 x more than hes making right now, when he's not contributing enough to put us over the edge on a sub $3M deal? That just makes it harder to take the next step. there are 15-20 guys that could give us what James Cook is giving us. Here's good - very good even, but he isn't special. He's replaceable, and I'd sooner draft another couple guys + bring in some UDFAs and find fresh legs than pay a hefty second contract to an RB. There are far bigger priorities.

 

What 15-20 running backs are going to make this play? Is Devin Singletary going to do it? Zack Moss? That is what replacement level is. If you don't pay him what will you do with the money? Go get a 10 million dollar RB and a back up corner? How about we scrap that plan and target a WR with all of that. Josh Palmer is about what we can get. 

 

If you trust Beane to land an offensive difference maker with that money so be it, but to replace him with a replacement level back (which Davis and Johnson are) then assume your money lands you a difference maker that is even close to what he did for us last year is fools gold. 

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

5 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

 

What 15-20 running backs are going to make this play? Is Devin Singletary going to do it? Zack Moss? That is what replacement level is. If you don't pay him what will you do with the money? Go get a 10 million dollar RB and a back up corner? How about we scrap that plan and target a WR with all of that. Josh Palmer is about what we can get. 

 

If you trust Beane to land an offensive difference maker with that money so be it, but to replace him with a replacement level back (which Davis and Johnson are) then assume your money lands you a difference maker that is even close to what he did for us last year is fools gold. 

 

What is it about that play that distinctly James Cook? It's a great football play, but I don't think there's any particularly unique skill that he has that enabled him to do that. It's not like it's a signature move. Could I see Singletary or Moss making that play? Absolutely. I could see Ty Johnson making it too. Derick Henry? Probably not. He'd just run straight through the guy instead.

There are a lot of ways RBs can add value above replacement without having to replicate a given play, too. Maybe Barkley scores on 1st down, so you don't even need to have a hero pitch. If you look at the top 15 backs int he league, there's a ton of talent there. I don't think Cook does anything terribly special to stand atop most os them. There's also a new crop of rookies that will likely insert themselves in that group too.

As for what I'd do with the money, I'd spend it on basically any other position but RB or special teams. We'll likely need to make a serious investment at safety next year, whether that's in the 1st/2nd round or FA. The same goes for EDGE, and possibly WR. Maybe Elijah Moore resurrects his career and we want to keep him? The only way I'm giving a RB $15M a year is if he can carry the entire team on his back with Trubisky under center.

[Mikie2times]

33 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

What is it about that play that distinctly James Cook? It's a great football play, but I don't think there's any particularly unique skill that he has that enabled him to do that. It's not like it's a signature move. Could I see Singletary or Moss making that play? Absolutely. I could see Ty Johnson making it too. Derick Henry? Probably not. He'd just run straight through the guy instead.

There are a lot of ways RBs can add value above replacement without having to replicate a given play, too. Maybe Barkley scores on 1st down, so you don't even need to have a hero pitch. If you look at the top 15 backs int he league, there's a ton of talent there. I don't think Cook does anything terribly special to stand atop most os them. There's also a new crop of rookies that will likely insert themselves in that group too.

As for what I'd do with the money, I'd spend it on basically any other position but RB or special teams. We'll likely need to make a serious investment at safety next year, whether that's in the 1st/2nd round or FA. The same goes for EDGE, and possibly WR. Maybe Elijah Moore resurrects his career and we want to keep him? The only way I'm giving a RB $15M a year is if he can carry the entire team on his back with Trubisky under center.

His athleticism is what allowed the play to happen. For 15 million dollars this team will not find a player that will make as big of an impact as Cook will. If you don't agree with that statement I get it. That's how these things go. I think he's a 12 million dollar guy and not 15. But I keep getting stuck on reflecting on my own financial situations over time. A lot of the time 10% would have secured my highest motivation as it showed a belief in me. I have gotten it at times and not in others. In the end the cost to the employer was a very dedicated high performing employee over a fraction of what the likely replacement and training costs would be. I see the gap from 10 to 15 million with Cook as a fairly similar situation which is where I really wonder just how much more we would get with 5 million dollars? 

Edited yesterday at 03:59 AM by Mikie2times

[GunnerBill]

On 6/16/2025 at 10:09 AM, ganesh said:

I feel James wants to play somewhere else like Florida or Texas without state income tax as well as being warm weather. That is probably why he is asking for $20M per year to stay back in Buffalo.  He is hoping for a trade by the Bills to one of the warmer weather teams. 
 

the bills can deny all that for him and force him to play out his contract which would mean you are going to have an unhappy player in your locker room. That may force Bills to trade him 

 

The Bills are not trading him at this point. Save for like a Saquan type guy going down in camp and the Eagles deciding they gotta make a move and overpaying. There was a point where a trade was on the table between the parties as an option but that has passed. 

 

And Cook is going to be here and play.

13 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 Could I see Singletary or Moss making that play? Absolutely. 

 

Zero point zero point zero per cent chance.

[HappyDays]

14 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Could I see Singletary or Moss making that play? Absolutely. I could see Ty Johnson making it too.

 

I mean this is just stretching to find reasons not to compliment the player. KC's defense had the play sniffed out and perfectly covered. None of the RBs you mentioned would come close to making that play.

 

There is a phenomenon happening amongst certain Bills fans where they're making the jump from "we shouldn't pay Cook" to "Cook isn't that good." There are plenty of reasonable arguments for why Cook shouldn't be extended - his position, his snap count, his 3rd down %, etc. You can make those arguments without making irrational comparisons to Singletary and the like. Any discussion about extending Cook should acknowledge the fact that if you don't extend him you are losing some of the great individual plays he made last year.

[GASabresIUFan]

On 6/16/2025 at 1:07 PM, BullBuchanan said:

so you're supporting paying a guy 6-8 x more than hes making right now

What?  You do realize he is making 5+ this season?

 

 

[T master]

Let me start by saying that ALL these contracts are a bit insane !! I believe some of the lowest paid players mostly rookies get paid starting at some $840K per year to play a game & does nothing but go up from there IMHO that's a bit insane .

 

With that being said it use to be that RB's were among the highest paid in the league and once again IMHO for good reason, every single time they get the ball they have some other dude looking to decapitate them or at the very lest lay a lick on them to knock the ball lose or they have to block a guy lets say 50Lbs heavier than them to protect their QB .

 

SO I'd say they are pretty much justified in wanting more money & then if you put in what Cook did last year and maybe just the effort alone that he put forth on that goal line TD in the play off game I'd say he's proven hs worth to this team and should get paid !! 

 

There are very few plays that the RB's get to just take a play off but there are some players that may just run a route and never get touched for multiple plays like the WR's just to draw attention away from others yet they still get payed much more money and are believed to be more valuable to a teams success .

 

And if you have a "Go To Guy" that you absolutely know no matter where you put the ball near him in any situation that he's going to come down with it 99% of the time then he deserves to get paid but so do the really good backs like Jimbo ... JMHO !!! 

[BullBuchanan]

36 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

What?  You do realize he is making 5+ this season?

 

 

You do realize the whole discussion is about him asking for $15M and us talking about if the Bills should give him that?

56 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I mean this is just stretching to find reasons not to compliment the player. KC's defense had the play sniffed out and perfectly covered. None of the RBs you mentioned would come close to making that play.

 

There is a phenomenon happening amongst certain Bills fans where they're making the jump from "we shouldn't pay Cook" to "Cook isn't that good." There are plenty of reasonable arguments for why Cook shouldn't be extended - his position, his snap count, his 3rd down %, etc. You can make those arguments without making irrational comparisons to Singletary and the like. Any discussion about extending Cook should acknowledge the fact that if you don't extend him you are losing some of the great individual plays he made last year.

No, it isn't each of those players are capable of amazing plays and monster games and have done so. I'm not taking a thing away from Cook. It was a great football play, but that's exactly what is was - a football play. It wasn't a "James Cook" play the way that Derrick Henry stiff arming someone into oblivion is.

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Bills are not trading him at this point. Save for like a Saquan type guy going down in camp and the Eagles deciding they gotta make a move and overpaying. There was a point where a trade was on the table between the parties as an option but that has passed. 

 

And Cook is going to be here and play.

 

Zero point zero point zero per cent chance.

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/devin-singletary-s-best-plays-from-his-two-touchdown-game-wild-card-weekend

 

His two touchdown plays were great here. Maybe people think that James cook play was more special than I do. It wouldn't crack my top 50 and I'm not certain it would crack my top 100 runs of the year across the league. If I'm not a Bills fan, it's just a nice play assisted by the safety dropping his head.

14 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

His athleticism is what allowed the play to happen. For 15 million dollars this team will not find a player that will make as big of an impact as Cook will. If you don't agree with that statement I get it. That's how these things go. I think he's a 12 million dollar guy and not 15. But I keep getting stuck on reflecting on my own financial situations over time. A lot of the time 10% would have secured my highest motivation as it showed a belief in me. I have gotten it at times and not in others. In the end the cost to the employer was a very dedicated high performing employee over a fraction of what the likely replacement and training costs would be. I see the gap from 10 to 15 million with Cook as a fairly similar situation which is where I really wonder just how much more we would get with 5 million dollars? 

See, i don't even advocate paying him 10 when you can get that talent on a rookie deal for $1-2M. A lot of folks around here believe that we would have wont he SB in 2021 had we beaten KC. if that had come to pass, Devin Singletary would have been our starting RB. having James Cook hasn't been the thing that put us over the edge. He's not that big of a difference by himself.

Edited 9 hours ago by BullBuchanan

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/devin-singletary-s-best-plays-from-his-two-touchdown-game-wild-card-weekend

 

His two touchdown plays were great here. Maybe people think that James cook play was more special than I do. It wouldn't crack my top 50 and I'm not certain it would crack my top 100 runs of the year across the league. If I'm not a Bills fan, it's just a nice play assisted by the safety dropping his head.

 

 

Singletary doesn't have the vision or change of direction of Cook. There is zero chance he makes that play. Zero.

[GASabresIUFan]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

You do realize the whole discussion is about him asking for $15M and us talking about if the Bills should give him that?

Yes, I realize that and 3x $5 mill is a great deal different that 6-8x 5 mill.  Math does matter.

 

As to someone earning a huge raise, (which Cook has), what do you think Shakir is getting or Benford or Benard?  Shakir's raise for 2026 is nearly 3x his 2025 and his 2027 cap hit is over 5x his 2025.  Benford's 2026 is 3x his 2025 and his 2027 is nearly 8x his 2025.  Bernard?  2.5x in 2026 and 4.5X in 2027.

 

Obviously paying Cook a 3x raise is similar to the other similarly situated players on the Bills.  

 

We all understand that you don't want to pay Cook.  We get it.  However once you start saying Singletary is a reasonable substitute for Cook your credibility suffers.