Ranking the 15 greatest Bills ever

[GASabresIUFan]

If you are making a list of all-time great Bills you have to start with the guys in the HOF.  There are 7 HOFer who were primarily Bills - Smith, Kelly, Thomas, Reed, OJ, Joe D, and Billy Shaw.  

 

In addition to the HOFers you have the following:

 

From the AFL Bills you have Dubenion, Edgerson, Kemp, Sestak, Stratton (LB), Saimes, Byrd and Gilchrest

 

From the Kelly ERA Bills you have Bennett, Talley, Tasker, Ritcher and Hull

 

From the recent Bills you have Poyer, Hyde, Dawkins, Spencer Brown, Diggs and of course Allen

 

From other eras you have Smerlas, Wood, Hansen, Moulds, Rueben Brown, Kyle Williams and maybe some others.

 

1. Bruce Smith

2. OJ Simpson

3. Billy Shaw

4. Kelly

5. Joe D

6. Josh Allen

7. Thomas

8. Reed

9. Hull

10. Kemp

11. Sestak

12. K Williams

13. Talley

14. Moulds

15. R Brown

 

Others - Ritcher, Smerlas, Dawkins, Bennett, Gilchrest, and Tasker. 

 

Edited Monday at 01:47 AM by GASabresIUFan

[Bullfrog]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

If you are making a list of all-time great Bills you have to start with the guys in the HOF.  There are 7 primarily Bills in the HOF - Smith, Kelly, Thomas, Reed, OJ, Joe D, and Billy Shaw.  

 

From the AFL Bills you have Dubenion, Edgerson, Kemp, Sestak, Stratton (LB), Saimes, Byrd and Gilchrest

 

From the Kelly ERA Bills you have Bennett, Talley, Tasker, Ritcher and Hull

 

From the recent Bills you have Poyer, Hyde, Dawkins, Spencer Brown, Diggs and of course Allen

 

From other eras you have Smerlas, Wood, Hansen, Moulds, Rueben Brown, Kyle Williams and maybe some others.

 

1. Bruce Smith

2. OJ Simpson

3. Billy Shaw

4. Kelly

5. Joe D

6. Josh Allen

7. Thomas

8. Reed

9. Hull

10. Kemp

11. Sestak

12. K Williams

13. Talley

14. Moulds

15. R Brown

 

Others - Ritcher, Smerlas, Dawkins, Bennett, Gilchrest, and Tasker. 

 

Very fair list. Some of these guys I was too young to appreciate but I agree that Bruce is hands down the best on the field player ever. A dominant 3-4 DE that was a nightmare for a whole OL. I am very critical of our DE today but I was spoiled too learn and watch the game with such an elite player.

[eball]

11 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So Trent Dilfer is better than Allen? Jalen Hurts? Brad Johnson? Nick Foles? Jeff Hostetler? Those guys must be better than Kelly too because they WON Super Bowls. That’s the dumbest argument ever made. 
 

Someone said throw the deep ball earlier and that’s fair. Kelly was also elite calling the game. We haven’t seen that from Allen. 

When I compare players, I compare them vs. their contemporaries to avoid the “game was different back then” argument. Josh Allen is the MVP of the league. He’s been a top 3 QB and top 10 overall player for 5 straight years. Jim Kelly wasn’t that in his era. He was, and people hate this, a lot like Hurts is now. He was in the next tier of QBs and had the best roster in football. He was the right guy for them. If Josh Allen quarterbacked those early 90’s team they have AT LEAST 2 Super Bowls. If Jim Kelly quarterbacked these Bills teams they would look a lot like Bucs do now. 

 

Steve, the guys defending Kelly right now are the same ones who wanted him benched for Reich back in the day.

 

Kelly’s a legit HOFer and his teams went to four consecutive SBs.  He’s on the list.  But the Bills have won so many games because of Josh Allen and I find it hard to recall telling myself that back in the 90s about Kelly.  Usually I was thinking about how great Bruce was, or Thurman, or how Reed just ran away from people after catching a short pass.  Folks just don’t really remember how freaking talented those rosters were.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

27 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Steve, the guys defending Kelly right now are the same ones who wanted him benched for Reich back in the day.

 

Kelly’s a legit HOFer and his teams went to four consecutive SBs.  He’s on the list.  But the Bills have won so many games because of Josh Allen and I find it hard to recall telling myself that back in the 90s about Kelly.  Usually I was thinking about how great Bruce was, or Thurman, or how Reed just ran away from people after catching a short pass.  Folks just don’t really remember how freaking talented those rosters were.

 

Exactly!! Kelly in hindsight is much better than Kelly at the time. Eli Manning may be a fair comp for Kelly. He was, in his era, like Kelly was in his. The Giants didn’t win as consistently as the early 90’s Bills but they managed to win the 2 big ones (that happened to be against Brady). Eli was always considered a very good QB. He was never considered Brady or Brees or Peyton or Rodgers.

 

Kelly belongs in the HOF. I said earlier that  he is like Mike Mussina in the HOF as opposed to Willie Mays in the HOF. That felt like a decent way to articulate it. He was a great player in his time but was never considered to be one of the top few players during his era. That’s Josh. Josh has been in the top tier for at least 5+ years. Kelly wasn’t ever in that top tier. That was Montana, Elway and Marino. Later in his career Favre and Young were there. Kelly was in the Warren Moon tier. 

Edited Sunday at 11:21 AM by Kirby Jackson

[frostbitmic]

1. Bruce Smith

2. Jim Kelly - Led the tam to 4 straight AFC titles

3. 0J Simpson

4. Thurman Thomas

5. Andre Reed

6. Josh Allen - A Super Bowl win moves him to #1 ... Top 5 are in the HOF Josh isn't there yet.

7 - 15 include  Bennett, Talley, Smerlas, Hull, Joe D, Gilchrist, Kemp, Shaw, Byrd

 

If they had played here longer - Jason Peters, Chris Spielman, Bryce Paup

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1. Bruce Smith

2. OJ Simpson

3. Josh Allen

4. Thurman Thomas

5. Andre Reed*

6. Jim Kelly

7. Joe D

8. Billy Shaw

9. Eric Moulds 

10. Cornelius Bennett 

11. Cookie Gilchrist 

12. Butch Byrd

13. Fred Smerlas

14. Ruben Brown

15. Kyle Williams

 

*I've argued Moulds is a better WR than Reed. Talent wise he is but you can't discount the production Reed had.

 

Allen is a far better QB than Kelly but that does not mean Kelly is not a HOF all time great QB. Both can be true. Allen is just that talented. Not his fault he has not been to multiple SuperBowls. 

[Kirby Jackson]

I was thinking about this differently. I was thinking, “what would my all-time, Bills starting lineup be?” The late 80’s is as far back as my memory goes. I’ve included HOFers before my time but not savvy enough to know if Sestak/Byrd/Edgerson/Cookie belong. I’ve also made some executive decisions because WR & RB have been better than TE. This is ONLY for their time as Bills (sorry TO) here it goes:

 

QB - Allen

RB: OJ

RB: Thurman

WR1: Andre

WR2: Moulds

Slot: Diggs

LT: Dion

LG: Joe D

C Kent Hull

RG: Shaw

RT: House Ballard

 

DE: Bruce

DE: Mario Williams

DT: Ted Washington

DT: Kyle Williams

OLB: Takeo

OLB: Biscuit

MLB: Talley

CB: Winfield

CB: Clemens

S: Jones

S: Poyer

 

KR: McGee

ST: Tasker

K: Christie

P: Moorman

 

HC: Marv

OC: Marchibroda

DC: Schwartz

Edited Sunday at 05:20 PM by Kirby Jackson

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I was thinking about this differently. I was thinking, “what would my all-time, Bills starting lineup be?” The late 80’s is as far back as my memory goes. I’ve included HOFers before my time but not savvy enough to know if Sestak/Byrd/Edgerson/Cookie belong. I’ve also made some executive decisions because WR & RB have been better than TE. This is ONLY for their time as Bills (sorry TO) here it goes:

 

QB - Allen

RB: OJ

RB: Thurman

WR1: Andre

WR2: Moulds

Slot: Diggs

LT: Dion

LG: Joe D

C Kent Hull

RG: Shaw

RT: House Ballard

 

DE: Bruce

DE: Mario Williams

DT: Ted Washington

DT: Kyle Williams

OLB: Takeo

OLB: Biscuit

MLB: Talley

CB: Winfield

CB: Clemens

S: Jones

S: Poyer

 

KR: McGee

ST: Tasker

K: Christie

P: Moorman

 

HC: Marv

OC: Marchibroda

DC: Schwartz

Great idea.  Being one of the old guys, I’d make a couple suggestions:

1.  I would think about Jerry Butler vs, Moulds at WR.  His career was cut short by injury but he was something else.

2.  I’d reverse Reed and Diggs; to me Andre almost invented slot receiver.

3.  You don’t have a TE so I’d throw Ernie Warlick in there.

4.  DT I’d have Tom Sestak.  He was a great player.

5.  DE:  Could make a case for Ron McDole

6.  OLB Mike Stratton was great.  And MLB I might put London Fletcher, or Jim Haslett.  Talley was really more an OLB.

7.  CBs for me would be Robert James and Butch Byrd.  I personally liked Egerson as much as Byrd James to me is the best CB to ever put on a Bills uniform.  Could also put White here. 
8.  At S you could throw in Saimes and/or Tony Greene.  Saimes was a mainstay of the great AFL defenses. 

 

[NewEra]

Josh will be the best while Bruce is currently the best.  The torch will be passed before Josh is complete. 

[Old Coot]

Don't forget Jack Kemp. he QB'd the Bills to two AFL championships in 1964 and 65. In 1966 he led the Bills to their third consecutive appearance in the AFL championship game, losing to KC, for the right to play Green Bay in Superbowl I.

 

Should Daryl Lamonica (aka the Mad Bomber) be on the list?

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Great idea.  Being one of the old guys, I’d make a couple suggestions:

1.  I would think about Jerry Butler vs, Moulds at WR.  His career was cut short by injury but he was something else.

2.  I’d reverse Reed and Diggs; to me Andre almost invented slot receiver.

3.  You don’t have a TE so I’d throw Ernie Warlick in there.

4.  DT I’d have Tom Sestak.  He was a great player.

5.  DE:  Could make a case for Ron McDole

6.  OLB Mike Stratton was great.  And MLB I might put London Fletcher, or Jim Haslett.  Talley was really more an OLB.

7.  CBs for me would be Robert James and Butch Byrd.  I personally liked Egerson as much as Byrd James to me is the best CB to ever put on a Bills uniform.  Could also put White here. 
8.  At S you could throw in Saimes and/or Tony Greene.  Saimes was a mainstay of the great AFL defenses. 

 

 

Why do you need a TE? This isn't a team we are fielding, it's a list of best players, and assuredly Warlick is not on it.

[oldmanfan]

26 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Why do you need a TE? This isn't a team we are fielding, it's a list of best players, and assuredly Warlick is not on it.

Kirby asked for a starting lineup.  TEs are usually included.  

[Kirby Jackson]

49 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Kirby asked for a starting lineup.  TEs are usually included.  

Yeah, I intentionally left of a TE because it would have had to leave off Thurman or one of those WRs. I just didn’t feel right about it as they were all better players. Warlick would have been my choice even though he was before my time. The Bills haven’t had good TEs in their history. 

Edited Sunday at 11:23 PM by Kirby Jackson

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yeah, I intentionally left of a TE because it would have had to left off Thurman or one of those WRs. I just didn’t feel right about it as they were all better players. Warlick would have been my choice even though he was before my time. The Bills haven’t had good TEs in their history. 

TE has been lacking to be sure.  You also didn’t have a FB, but if you wanted to include one I’d add Cookie.  Braxton was also really good.

[Kirby Jackson]

16 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

TE has been lacking to be sure.  You also didn’t have a FB, but if you wanted to include one I’d add Cookie.  Braxton was also really good.

Cookie would have been the guy for sure. He too was before my time but feel like it would have passed the sniff test. I tried to limit the guys before my time to the HOFers (OJ, Shaw, Joe D). That’s not ideal but felt it was the fairest way for me. I’m always interested to hear from you guys that have been here from the start. 

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Cookie would have been the guy for sure. He too was before my time but feel like it would have passed the sniff test. I tried to limit the guys before my time to the HOFers (OJ, Shaw, Joe D). That’s not ideal but felt it was the fairest way for me. I’m always interested to hear from you guys that have been here from the start. 

Appreciate the opportunity

[Ethan in Cleveland]

On 6/13/2025 at 8:17 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

All fair and it’s not denigrating Kelly in anyway (at least it isn’t intended to). He is a HOFer and he belongs there. He just a HOFer in the same way that Mike Mussina is a HOFer not in the way that Willie Mays is a HOFer.
 

I’d argue, that he was the Jalen Hurts of his era. Hurts has been a Pro Bowler. Hurts has been an all pro. Hurts has led an elite roster to the Super Bowl multiple times. Hurts has consistently been one of the better QBs in the league but never considered at the top. The biggest difference is that Hurts has been elite in the Super Bowl. They are a lot more alike than people want to admit. If Hurts wins another, which he may, we are in for some tough conversations around here.
 

Kelly in retrospect is much better than Kelly in actuality. The nostalgia of those teams have clouded the reality that Kelly was a very good QB and Marv a pretty good coach. Bruce was the guy. Thurman was next. Andre and Kelly were similar. The role players were outstanding and they were really good at the LOS. Those teams were so good. Much in the way though that Eagles fans want Hurts in the conversation with Burrow/Allen/Lamar/Mahomes, Bills fans want Kelly in the conversation with Marino/Elway/Montana and then Young/Favre. 

There is no way to sugar coat this. Kelly was absolute trash in the playoffs. QB rating of 73 with 28 INT against only 21 TDs

Allen's rating is 101.7 with 25 TD and 4 INT.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

There is no way to sugar coat this. Kelly was absolute trash in the playoffs. QB rating of 73 with 28 INT against only 21 TDs

Allen's rating is 101.7 with 25 TD and 4 INT.

Yup, compared to Josh I have to agree.  You take away 1990 and Jim's playoff stats are pretty bad. With 1990 included,  his rating is still a terrible 72.3....not to mention Jim was surrounded by HOFers. Josh is flying solo in some regards.

[Big Curt]

OJ Simpson has to be #1 or 2 hands down. I understand he was a POS off the field, but he was one of the greatest NFL players in not just Bills history, but NFL history. Bruce is either #1 or #2; He's top 2 or 3 of defensive ends in NFL history.  Jim Kelly leading us to 4 SB'd as QB is #3.  Josh Allen is #4 because every year we're going the playoffs because of his otherworldly talent. #5 is Thurman Thomas because of is MVP. Leading the NFL in yards from scrimmage. 

[SoMAn]

On 6/13/2025 at 4:22 AM, AverageAllensSuspensor said:

1. Scott Norwood

2. Aaron Maybin

3. EJ Manuel

4. J.P. Losman

5. Mike Williams

6. Sammy Watkins

7. Cierre Wood

8. Tom Cusineau

9. John McCargo

10. T.J. Graham

11. James Hardy

12. Lodis McKelvin

13. Trent Edwards

14. Ron Edwards

15. Erik Flowers

I get that this was posted with tongue in cheek, but a reminder that before Norwood was targeted as the bad guy in Super Bowl XXV (he wasn't)*, he had been a dependable pro bowl kicker.

Cousineau never amounted to much in the NFL after a stint in Canada, but the rights the Bills held to him were subsequently packaged to acquire the 1983 first round draft pick that became Jim Kelly.

 

* Norwood's missed kick is too often given as the reason for the Bills' loss to the Giants.  It's not the reason, just the most memorable moment.

The reality is that Parcells and Belichick outsmarted the Bills, letting the Kelly offense get cold while the Giants slowing controlled the ball after halftime. The Bills defense missed about 7 tackles on Mark Ingram on a 3rd and 11, keeping the Giant's drive alive to score. That was a bigger factor in the outcome.

On the other side, when Belichick deployed 7 DBs to counter the no-huddle, the Bills should have run Thurman down their throats all game long.  Time of possession was a key.