Cole Bishop Toughness

[Simon]

57 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Nice to be arbitrary, but.......He hasn’t shown anything and his stats on tackles, breakups and assists bear it out. You want to ignore what’s plain to see, that’s ok.

 

My thoughts on what the OP was asking are solely based on what Bishop does on multiple snaps during a game.

If you want to rely on postgame statistics for your opinion on his physicality, that's ok.

The rest of us will just watch him actually play.

 

As for you ragging on him vs KC, that's a good time for you to now start ignoring stats since he actually led the entire defense in tackles.

Yeah, what a shrinking violet 

 

 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

He was undeniably tentative in the first half of the season after missing so much time early. No confidence in his reads, flat-footed because he didn't trust himself, bad angles as a result of hesitation. But by the latter part of the year he was definitely showing the willingness to come downhill hard and attack ballcarriers. He was still making the occasional mistake because he was so dialed in on his assignment that he didn't have the confidence to play the whole field, but there was no lack of aggression in his game. He is absolutely willing to stick his face in the fan.

 

 

I have. Multiple times.

It was cool.

Sorry you missed it. 

I wish people understood this and could see it the way someone who "gets it" sees it. It's so apparent when players are at their limits of ability with the mental aspect and this is a strong indication of their ceiling. Dorian Williams had issues with this in 23. Pozlukazaknee had them for a while, too. 

 

Someone who didn't but was a mess - albeit fun to watch - McKelvin. That guy got himself burned and in the wrong spot so many times and overcame it with such a pure out of this world level of athletic talent that it's a shame he never developed the rest of his playing abilities further. 

1 hour ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I have a Coy Wire bobblehead mista

I bet that's a site to see. Is that guy still doing sports media??? I know he tried hard to make it in the media world. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

15 minutes ago, boyst said:

I wish people understood this and could see it the way someone who "gets it" sees it. It's so apparent when players are at their limits of ability with the mental aspect and this is a strong indication of their ceiling. Dorian Williams had issues with this in 23. Pozlukazaknee had them for a while, too. 

 

Someone who didn't but was a mess - albeit fun to watch - McKelvin. That guy got himself burned and in the wrong spot so many times and overcame it with such a pure out of this world level of athletic talent that it's a shame he never developed the rest of his playing abilities further. 

I bet that's a site to see. Is that guy still doing sports media??? I know he tried hard to make it in the media world. 

no idea

[Mister Defense]

7 hours ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

I feel a need to be reassured by the board.  I get a creeping fear - which can only be based on some weird, deep-seated prejudice -- that Cole Bishop may well lack the toughness to be an NFL strong safety.  Maybe he looks a little bit too much like a choirboy.  Maybe he is too handsome and I am secretly jealous.  I am 100% rooting for him.  I know he has the height, weight and speed.  But I look at him and think "likely to be scheme sound."  No, please!  I want to look at him and say "geez, I would sure hate to be a running back and see that animal flying downhill at me.  Snot flying, drool dripping, that dude is going to wreck someone."  I want to think - wide receiver over the middle?  Not worried about it, Bishop will get there and lay the MoFo out.  They may complete one, but it will be VERY expensive for them.  

 

Tell me I am stupid, a hater or just off base.  I really liked the pick when they made it, I am hoping he grows into a silent assassin on the back-end.  Even if he is scheme sound too (and I know he wasn't always that last year either).  Let's go Cole - cheering for you, and want to feel stupid for doubting you.  I may have to buy a Bishop jersey just to exorcise my doubts.  Thoughts?

 

 

 

This year we should see a different Cole Bishop, like we saw a different Terrel Bernard in his2nd year, and in Benford's 2nd and 3rd years, as Bishop has the physical tools, skills and intelligence.

 

Like them he just needed to learn how the NFL game works, so his skills can shine through. And with that the toughness you speak of.

 

If he is good the Bills defense is good, and if he is very good, the defense may be very good.

 

To me the quality of Bishop's play this summer and in the regular season may go a long way in transforming the defense.

 

I think he comes through and is considered a very good NFL safety by the end of the season,  a player who got better and better as the season progressed

 

 

 

[Sargent Hulka]

7 hours ago, boyst said:

Cole Bishop = Coy Wire at best

Coy Wire carved out a nice career as a CNN sports reporter.

[Simon]

4 hours ago, boyst said:

Someone who didn't but was a mess - albeit fun to watch - McKelvin. That guy got himself burned and in the wrong spot so many times and overcame it with such a pure out of this world level of athletic talent that it's a shame he never developed the rest of his playing abilities further. 

 

About 10 years ago I had some passes and was walking around on the Bills sideline before a game. At one point I was standing near Leodis McKelvin who was warming up with a drill where he'd stand by the sideline, jump up in the air, reach OB for a ball somebody was tossing up and then come back down with it.

That mf was in full pads, literally about 12+' in the air, plucking balls with one hand that were 4-5' OB and then repeatedly coming down in bounds with them like he was casually loosening up with some jumping jacks.

I've been around some pretty impressive athletes at times but I have never seen any shlt like that in my life.

It was like watching a galdanged circus act that you couldn't quite convince yourself was real.

[BillsFanForever19]

9 hours ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

I feel a need to be reassured by the board.  I get a creeping fear - which can only be based on some weird, deep-seated prejudice -- that Cole Bishop may well lack the toughness to be an NFL strong safety.  Maybe he looks a little bit too much like a choirboy.  Maybe he is too handsome and I am secretly jealous.  I am 100% rooting for him.  I know he has the height, weight and speed.  But I look at him and think "likely to be scheme sound."  No, please!  I want to look at him and say "geez, I would sure hate to be a running back and see that animal flying downhill at me.  Snot flying, drool dripping, that dude is going to wreck someone."  I want to think - wide receiver over the middle?  Not worried about it, Bishop will get there and lay the MoFo out.  They may complete one, but it will be VERY expensive for them.  

 

Tell me I am stupid, a hater or just off base.  I really liked the pick when they made it, I am hoping he grows into a silent assassin on the back-end.  Even if he is scheme sound too (and I know he wasn't always that last year either).  Let's go Cole - cheering for you, and want to feel stupid for doubting you.  I may have to buy a Bishop jersey just to exorcise my doubts.  Thoughts?

 

I mean, I'm not going to call you stupid - but I think it's pretty ridiculous to judge how tough or how good of a Safety he could be based on the fact that he's pretty.

 

There's plenty of "snot flying, drool dripping" dudes who are straight up trash on the field. If you look at when we had Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde, Poyer was a pretty boy (bagging a literal super model) and Hyde was a pretty unassuming every day looking kind of guy with an easy going demeanor himself. Neither one of them were scary looking cavemen. And in their prime, they were incredible.

 

We'll see what becomes of Cole Bishop. He missed pretty much all of his Rookie Training Camp and Pre-Season, which had him behind the 8 ball and on roller skates trying to catch up all season. On top of that because he missed that very important time for a Rookie, it made McDermott much more conservative with him - when he's pretty conservative with Rookies as is.

 

I'm pretty much giving him a clean slate this season. And him looking like a New York Yankee under George Steinbrenner shouldn't weigh an ounce on your mind. Good Football players come in all shapes, sizes, and looks.

Edited yesterday at 02:13 AM by BillsFanForever19

[Dablitzkrieg]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Yeah, what a shrinking violet 

 

 

Had to Google that, had never heard that term

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Had to Google that, had never heard that term

 

Occasionally I forget that not everybody else is also older than some dirt. 

[Thurman#1]

There's a guy lives near my house looks mean as hell. Snot's always flying, drool's dripping.

 

Turns out he's just a messy eater without great hygiene. Runs away when threatened by little girls.

 

That stuff means nothing. It's kind of a nice add-on in that it can put a bit of a chill down your enemy's spine, but that's about it.

 

From what I saw, Bishop looked like a good tackler who wasn't yet sure where he was supposed to be. Once he does, IMO he'll be fine.

[Thrivefourfive]

12 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Oh cool, another one of these "the guy didn't play well his rookie year so he's never going to be good" threads.  Can we, for the love of God, ever actually give these guys a chance before we go all doom and gloom on them?  

Why? Hairston can’t tackle 🍿

[BigDingus]

I mean, I'm not seeing anything that's suggesting he's going to be a great starting safety, but I'm not giving up on him either.

 

McDermott has no problem starting whoever he thinks is best suited for the job, so if Cole looks like the best option, I'm sure he'll become the starter. That said, he didn't show anything last year that makes me think that'll be the case, but my confidence isn't important.

Edited 20 hours ago by BigDingus

[Puckman5]

15 hours ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

I feel a need to be reassured by the board.  I get a creeping fear - which can only be based on some weird, deep-seated prejudice -- that Cole Bishop may well lack the toughness to be an NFL strong safety.  Maybe he looks a little bit too much like a choirboy.  Maybe he is too handsome and I am secretly jealous.  I am 100% rooting for him.  I know he has the height, weight and speed.  But I look at him and think "likely to be scheme sound."  No, please!  I want to look at him and say "geez, I would sure hate to be a running back and see that animal flying downhill at me.  Snot flying, drool dripping, that dude is going to wreck someone."  I want to think - wide receiver over the middle?  Not worried about it, Bishop will get there and lay the MoFo out.  They may complete one, but it will be VERY expensive for them.  

 

Tell me I am stupid, a hater or just off base.  I really liked the pick when they made it, I am hoping he grows into a silent assassin on the back-end.  Even if he is scheme sound too (and I know he wasn't always that last year either).  Let's go Cole - cheering for you, and want to feel stupid for doubting you.  I may have to buy a Bishop jersey just to exorcise my doubts.  Thoughts?

 

 

We have a man card revocation situation developing here.   

[boyst]

10 hours ago, Sargent Hulka said:

Coy Wire carved out a nice career as a CNN sports reporter.

 

11 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

no idea

see above. i knew he did something sports related. i don't have cable or watch news networks so i didn't know he was on CNN. either way, good for him.

[blacklabel]

17 hours ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Take Spender Brown - clean cut, but a real bastard from day one.  Wanted to put defenders though the turf.  Was always obvious.  Same for our extra-lineman dude whose name I forget at the moment.  Mean.

 

Alec Anderson, who the team apparently loves. Dude gets everyone hyped up. Before he was dressing for every game he was the guy on the sidelines constantly whoopin' it up. 

I also think Bishop will be fine. Hopefully he's 100% from the injury now, can lock in and just focus on his jorb. 

[boyst]

10 hours ago, Simon said:

 

About 10 years ago I had some passes and was walking around on the Bills sideline before a game. At one point I was standing near Leodis McKelvin who was warming up with a drill where he'd stand by the sideline, jump up in the air, reach OB for a ball somebody was tossing up and then come back down with it.

That mf was in full pads, literally about 12+' in the air, plucking balls with one hand that were 4-5' OB and then repeatedly coming down in bounds with them like he was casually loosening up with some jumping jacks.

I've been around some pretty impressive athletes at times but I have never seen any shlt like that in my life.

It was like watching a galdanged circus act that you couldn't quite convince yourself was real.

isn't it amazing that some average joes think they can compete against athletes like this?  sure, they stand a chance but the level of exceptionalism in these elite athletes is something most people have not witnessed.

 

when you've been around enough athletes you recognize the special ones. when you see them in person you can recognize the stars. two examples of this in my life i have seen personally: Cael Sanderson as a senior in HS wrestling at Iowa (not ISU) during the summer offseason for training against a former NCAA champ while Dan Gable worked with them & Charles Woodson in high school ( i was at 8th grade)

[BillsPride12]

17 hours ago, transient said:

Before the OP's height of offseason TBD "gift", I guess I never really saw Cole Bishop's face before... dude is going to have a harder time finally growing a beard than Allen did. What a baby face... let's hope it's the baby face of an assassin. 

Babyface assassin would be an awesome nickname for Cole if he pans out!  

[Captain Hindsight]

14 minutes ago, boyst said:

isn't it amazing that some average joes think they can compete against athletes like this?  sure, they stand a chance but the level of exceptionalism in these elite athletes is something most people have not witnessed.

 

 

When I was in college, I was selected to come out onto the field at halftime to catch punts. I, while quite drunk, thought this was an excellent idea and was very confident walking down to the field. 

 

When I got to the field, the Pitt QB scored a TD right in front of me. He was huge and I suddenly felt like the smallest dude, freaked out and proceeded to drop every single punt in front of the entire stadium. 

 

 

[stevewin]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

isn't it amazing that some average joes think they can compete against athletes like this?  sure, they stand a chance but the level of exceptionalism in these elite athletes is something most people have not witnessed.

 

when you've been around enough athletes you recognize the special ones. when you see them in person you can recognize the stars. two examples of this in my life i have seen personally: Cael Sanderson as a senior in HS wrestling at Iowa (not ISU) during the summer offseason for training against a former NCAA champ while Dan Gable worked with them & Charles Woodson in high school ( i was at 8th grade)

I had this experience after HS playing pickup basketball at Lancaster Boy's Club one college break and Don 'Majik Man' Majkowski was playing with us.  I played against him in HS and in pickup games back then (and he was a great HS multi-sport athlete) but by this time he was playing at W Va and holy crap had his athleticism reached grown-ass-man levels.  When the  dude came down and tomahawked a slam dunk like white chocolate thunder we all kind of just stood there like "OK".  He took it easy on us the rest of the way :p.  You know all these guys are great athletes but sometimes seeing it first hand and up close can take your breath away

Edited 15 hours ago by stevewin

[MarlinTheMagician]

12 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

 

This year we should see a different Cole Bishop, like we saw a different Terrel Bernard in his2nd year, and in Benford's 2nd and 3rd years, as Bishop has the physical tools, skills and intelligence.

 

Like them he just needed to learn how the NFL game works, so his skills can shine through. And with that the toughness you speak of.

 

If he is good the Bills defense is good, and if he is very good, the defense may be very good.

 

To me the quality of Bishop's play this summer and in the regular season may go a long way in transforming the defense.

 

I think he comes through and is considered a very good NFL safety by the end of the season,  a player who got better and better as the season progressed

 

 

 

I think this is a distinct possibility, but I think it is coin flip.  Thus my concern.  As other posters stated, he was undeniably tentative, at least in the first half of the year.  Could be he didn't trust what he did see and didn't see enough - rookie problem that will clear.  There was some improvement in the second half, but I did not see it as dramatic.  I think he has a lot to prove this year to justify his draft status - he will either emerge or fade.  He definitely does not seem to have the quicks to be a plus  FS.  I think his path is SS and to capture that opportunity he is going to have to assert himself more physically.  Certainly could happen, but he has not proven it yet or showed enough flashes that I feel comfortable.  Utah is over.  Don't care about any insults, he is a big variable in the D - if he is a plus NFL starter our D looks a lot better than if he can't break into the lineup.  Given apparent coverage limitations he needs to do that with physicality.