Ross Tucker interview of Michael Hoecht

[Mr. WEO]

20 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Hoecht said he put his faith in someone who didn't have his best interest at heart.  What if that's a true statement?  What's the problem with articulating that?  He also said (multiple times) that it was his mistake.  

 

Without evidence to the contrary, I chose to take him at his word.  

 

I agree about Tucker, though.  He looks small.

 

Then he's the dumbest guy in the NFL and shouldn't be on the roster for that reason.

 

Everyone who has gotten caught the past 10 years has claimed this.  For this reason, it's just not a credible defense.  No player would simply take something some trainer or what not handed him and said, "don't worry, it's ok".  Most of these guys can read, so, if they were really not sure what was in the drugs they were given, they could easily find out.  Why would they leave their fate in the hands of some pusher?   Accepting responsibility isn't accomplished by blaming someone else (who is this person he's blaming anyway?). 

 

It's just not believable he didn't know what he put in his body.  Zero point zero chance.

[Mike in Horseheads]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Then he's the dumbest guy in the NFL and shouldn't be on the roster for that reason.

 

Everyone who has gotten caught the past 10 years has claimed this.  For this reason, it's just not a credible defense.  No player would simply take something some trainer or what not handed him and said, "don't worry, it's ok".  Most of these guys can read, so, if they were really not sure what was in the drugs they were given, they could easily find out.  Why would they leave their fate in the hands of some pusher?   Accepting responsibility isn't accomplished by blaming someone else (who is this person he's blaming anyway?). 

 

It's just not believable he didn't know what he put in his body.  Zero point zero chance.

That might be a reach that most of them can read !   Agree on the trainer defense,  ya never see them getting fired  when these things come out

Edited Saturday at 06:09 AM by Mike in Horseheads

[dave mcbride]

18 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Then he's the dumbest guy in the NFL and shouldn't be on the roster for that reason.

 

Everyone who has gotten caught the past 10 years has claimed this.  For this reason, it's just not a credible defense.  No player would simply take something some trainer or what not handed him and said, "don't worry, it's ok".  Most of these guys can read, so, if they were really not sure what was in the drugs they were given, they could easily find out.  Why would they leave their fate in the hands of some pusher?   Accepting responsibility isn't accomplished by blaming someone else (who is this person he's blaming anyway?). 

 

It's just not believable he didn't know what he put in his body.  Zero point zero chance.

Hoecht can certainly read: https://brownbears.com/sports/football/roster/michael-hoecht/9698

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Hoecht can certainly read: https://brownbears.com/sports/football/roster/michael-hoecht/9698

 

no doubt--that only leaves that he's a liar in blaming someone else.  But he's not a very good one.  Brown couldn't teach him to be more clever it seems.

[Don Otreply]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

no doubt--that only leaves that he's a liar in blaming someone else.  But he's not a very good one.  Brown couldn't teach him to be more clever it seems.

Nah, he just fuh ked up his micro dosing scheme, so he goes through the league endorsed apology routine, he’ll be back at the pharmacy in no time, nothing to see here, move along…, 

[hondo in seattle]

On 5/30/2025 at 10:12 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

Then he's the dumbest guy in the NFL and shouldn't be on the roster for that reason.

 

Everyone who has gotten caught the past 10 years has claimed this.  For this reason, it's just not a credible defense.  No player would simply take something some trainer or what not handed him and said, "don't worry, it's ok".  Most of these guys can read, so, if they were really not sure what was in the drugs they were given, they could easily find out.  Why would they leave their fate in the hands of some pusher?   Accepting responsibility isn't accomplished by blaming someone else (who is this person he's blaming anyway?). 

 

It's just not believable he didn't know what he put in his body.  Zero point zero chance.

 

Three things...

First, we should never underestimate the gullibility of football players.  Remember when Manti Te'o of Notre Dame said on national TV that his girlfriend died on the same day as his grandma?  But later it was discovered poor Manti was the victim of a catfishing scam and his online gf never existed?  Players believe dumb things sometimes. 

Second, I believe in the America value of the presumption of innocence.   The reason everyone caught doping says they didn't know is because it's plausible.  Some athletes don't know; some pretend they didn't know.   Maybe a respected trainer or older veteran (not a sneaky lowlife "pusher") gave Hoecht some supps.  In any case, I've seen so many people suffer from false accusations that I choose to give people the benefit of the doubt when there is no/little track record of misbehavior.  

 

Third, many supps include unlisted ingredients.  You suggest that Hoecht should have read the label.   But one published study found that of 3,132 dietary supplements examined, 875 (28%) had undeclared substances including anabolic steroids. and sibutramine.  

 

 pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9054437/  

[Richard Noggin]

On 5/29/2025 at 11:45 AM, BarleyNY said:

This was MANY years ago when I was in college. A friend, who was absolutely jacked, told me how he used to power lift, then tried body building. He went to his first BB competition and saw a bunch of the competitors juicing in the locker room. He wasn’t going to do that so he gave it up. 

 

What would they be "juicing" in the locker room immediately before a contest? I'm assuming "juicing" means "injecting"? Are/were injectable anabolic steroids "fast-acting"? Sounds a little cliched. More about extreme diet and water restrictions in the immediate leadup to a show, to my understanding. The "juicing" is more of a training thing than a gameday thing, innit? (Sure there's something to contradict my take, so let's have it.)

 

On 5/29/2025 at 11:59 AM, MikePJ76 said:

I remember in high school trying desperately to gain weight for baseball.  I worked my tail off.  I just could not gained weight.  I was way too  active.  
 

I went to my doctor because my parents made me, to see which weight gain supplement and creatine he would recommend to help me add weight with my lifting routine.  He was a younger doctor and a former college athlete, he looked right at me and said never put that stuff in your body, ever especially the creatine.  That was that.  
 

he really didn’t appreciate my joke about buying the one called the Russian bear at GNC which was 4000 calories per shake.  That was a real product.

 

anyway, multiple high school friends took both and made huge gains.  Meanwhile my 5”10 skinny azz worked like a dog to get to 160 pounds.

 

that was a 90’s thing and the current thing is testosterone products.  Anything that advertises like four times on an hour on sports radio stations should be avoided at all costs.

 

anyway,  hoecht is just a guy and he is going to have a hard time living down the ped thing without an abnormally high productive season.

 

I don't think creatine has documented long term side effects, when used reasonably? Also, you don't share a single actual downside to its use, so is your argument that: just because some square Doc way back when said NO, and listening to that Doc resulted in minimal growth for you, we should abstain?

 

(My 5'11" azz, who was maybe 5'8" as a high school junior, gained like 30 lbs throughout that spring and following summer, fall, and winter, while participating selectively in an alleged Soviet olympic weight training pyramid routine for just the bench press LOL. I played soccer and ran track but my bench press buddy was a big friendly giant of a sophomore offensive lineman who I drove to school sometimes. Neither of us supplemented beyond protein, but wow was it easy to get stronger and bigger with puberty's tailwind. I know other somatypes, like you, need "additional assistance" to add considerable mass. I need extreme discipline and/or "assistance" to get very lean, on the contrary.)

 

On 5/30/2025 at 1:12 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

Then he's the dumbest guy in the NFL and shouldn't be on the roster for that reason.

 

Everyone who has gotten caught the past 10 years has claimed this.  For this reason, it's just not a credible defense.  No player would simply take something some trainer or what not handed him and said, "don't worry, it's ok".  Most of these guys can read, so, if they were really not sure what was in the drugs they were given, they could easily find out.  Why would they leave their fate in the hands of some pusher?   Accepting responsibility isn't accomplished by blaming someone else (who is this person he's blaming anyway?). 

 

It's just not believable he didn't know what he put in his body.  Zero point zero chance.

 

They don't claim ignorance/betrayal because they mean it. What is the professional/monetary advantage to publicly "accepting responsibility"? They all say the same thing because that's the broadly accepted, legally/commercially advisable messaging.

 

To be honest, there should probably be guidelines/allowances for responsible and monitored HGH use in a gladiator sport like football. Not much downside in legalizing something with multiple, valuable benefits and minimal side effects. 

 

[BarleyNY]

5 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

What would they be "juicing" in the locker room immediately before a contest? I'm assuming "juicing" means "injecting"? Are/were injectable anabolic steroids "fast-acting"? Sounds a little cliched. More about extreme diet and water restrictions in the immediate leadup to a show, to my understanding. The "juicing" is more of a training thing than a gameday thing, innit? (Sure there's something to contradict my take, so let's have it.)

 

I have always wondered that. But my friend wasn’t one to lie about anything so I believed him. Also I know very little about anything that has to do with body building, steroids or what else that might be done just prior to a BB competition to gain an edge. Maybe something else was going on and he misunderstood it. Or maybe some meathead body builders mistakenly thought it would help them. Dunno. 

 

I’ve lifted most of my life and been in a lot of gyms. I’ve seen enough huge guys with severe acne, yellow eyes and rage issues to stay tf away from that crap. 

[BullBuchanan]

On 5/30/2025 at 12:12 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

Then he's the dumbest guy in the NFL and shouldn't be on the roster for that reason.

 

Everyone who has gotten caught the past 10 years has claimed this.  For this reason, it's just not a credible defense.  No player would simply take something some trainer or what not handed him and said, "don't worry, it's ok".  Most of these guys can read, so, if they were really not sure what was in the drugs they were given, they could easily find out.  Why would they leave their fate in the hands of some pusher?   Accepting responsibility isn't accomplished by blaming someone else (who is this person he's blaming anyway?). 

 

It's just not believable he didn't know what he put in his body.  Zero point zero chance.

I don't think anyone is making the argument they don't know that they're playing to the limit and a little past it with PEDs. That's not really the issue here.

It's not about not taking banned substances, it's about not taking too much so you don't get popped. These guys aren't dosing out their own supplements. They have professionals for that, and I fully believe they're capable of screwing up, probably by misjudging what a player's test result will grade on a given day as a result of getting a little too risky with the program.

[Doc Brown]

On 5/30/2025 at 1:12 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

Then he's the dumbest guy in the NFL and shouldn't be on the roster for that reason.

 

Everyone who has gotten caught the past 10 years has claimed this.  For this reason, it's just not a credible defense.  No player would simply take something some trainer or what not handed him and said, "don't worry, it's ok".  Most of these guys can read, so, if they were really not sure what was in the drugs they were given, they could easily find out.  Why would they leave their fate in the hands of some pusher?   Accepting responsibility isn't accomplished by blaming someone else (who is this person he's blaming anyway?). 

 

It's just not believable he didn't know what he put in his body.  Zero point zero chance.

There's also the "I take so much juice at once and so many masking agents I get confused so I just let my trainer take care of it and pray he doesn't screw up" approach.  Either way, you look a hell of a lot better if you take full responsibility for it imo.  Especially when there's no qualifiers in front of that statement.

[Richard Noggin]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I don't think anyone is making the argument they don't know that they're playing to the limit and a little past it with PEDs. That's not really the issue here.

It's not about not taking banned substances, it's about not taking too much so you don't get popped. These guys aren't dosing out their own supplements. They have professionals for that, and I fully believe they're capable of screwing up, probably by misjudging what a player's test result will grade on a given day as a result of getting a little too risky with the program.

 

I think that's exactly it: risk tolerance and a certain degree of uncertainty regarding "randomized" testing schedules and results. 

 

Probably super common: limited offseason "training" regimens with targeted, incremental goals and conservative allowances. Seems like the infraction announcements happen largely during the offseason, but is there an NFL policy that defers such judgements once a season is officially underway? There must be in-season positives, given injury management and whatnot, so is there an NFL process for keeping a lid on those under a certain recurrence threshold? Or is my perception of this as a largely offseason phenomena inaccurate? 

[BullBuchanan]

45 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

There's also the "I take so much juice at once and so many masking agents I get confused so I just let my trainer take care of it and pray he doesn't screw up" approach.  Either way, you look a hell of a lot better if you take full responsibility for it imo.  Especially when there's no qualifiers in front of that statement.

I feel like this is a thing parents tell their kids for some reason that has absolutely no evidence of being true in reality. From every example I've seen both those directly involving me directly and those involving others, admitting guilt almost never proves to be a beneficial choice. Not only do you guarantee punishment, but your public perception is damaged forever. Not once in my entire life have I ever heard a person say, well, he [did poorly perceived thing], but because he admitted it I'll stand in his corner.

Deflect, Deny, Deflect to the bitter end unless you're getting a hell of a deal to do otherwise. When you refuse to admit guilt, you get several benefits. 1. You can potentially evade punishment. 2. some people will believe you or will be skeptical enough to not want you crucified for it, and related to that, your legacy is nowhere near as stained as if you admit it in the first place which can have sever implications both reputational and financial.

[Doc Brown]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I feel like this is a thing parents tell their kids for some reason that has absolutely no evidence of being true in reality. From every example I've seen both those directly involving me directly and those involving others, admitting guilt almost never proves to be a beneficial choice. Not only do you guarantee punishment, but your public perception is damaged forever. Not once in my entire life have I ever heard a person say, well, he [did poorly perceived thing], but because he admitted it I'll stand in his corner.

Deflect, Deny, Deflect to the bitter end unless you're getting a hell of a deal to do otherwise. When you refuse to admit guilt, you get several benefits. 1. You can potentially evade punishment. 2. some people will believe you or will be skeptical enough to not want you crucified for it, and related to that, your legacy is nowhere near as stained as if you admit it in the first place which can have sever implications both reputational and financial.

Fair point.  I think it depends on the seriousness of the accusation.  I didn't expect OJ Simpson to have a press conference following the murder accusations saying "yeah, I take full responsibility for murdering my wife and that waiter.  I'll learn from it."  

 

If it's something as minor as this though I'd have more respect for a player if he just said, "Yup.  Got injured and wanted to get back on the field as quick as possible because I only have a short time to build potentially generational wealth."  I'd respect him more.  Plus, it would be easier for him to sleep at night.