Tush Push vote failed. Still a thing

[Doc Brown]

13 hours ago, wjag said:

I really don't get McD's vote to ban it.   Buffalo clearly used it to great effect.  Let's vote to take away a high percentage play to get first downs and TDs.  👀

You never know what goes on behind the scenes.  Goodell could've promised him no Holiday games if he leads the charge to get this eyesore banned because horrible TV means less eyes in the long run.

 

If you want to go the non cynical route, McDermott saw what happened in the NFC Championship and the Redskins keep trying to jump the count at the one yard line.  It looked like an eye sore and you can see the potential for injury there with them trying to leap over lineman before the ball is even snapped.  They could've easily went helmet to helmet with Hurts.  The NFL has always been a reactive league so he's basically worried that if they don't ban it here will be a catastrophic injury on the play down the road.  That's what it seemed like to me based on how he's answered the questions at the last owners meaning.  Even though we benefit from the tush push.

[wjag]

42 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

You never know what goes on behind the scenes.  Goodell could've promised him no Holiday games if he leads the charge to get this eyesore banned because horrible TV means less eyes in the long run.

 

If you want to go the non cynical route, McDermott saw what happened in the NFC Championship and the Redskins keep trying to jump the count at the one yard line.  It looked like an eye sore and you can see the potential for injury there with them trying to leap over lineman before the ball is even snapped.  They could've easily went helmet to helmet with Hurts.  The NFL has always been a reactive league so he's basically worried that if they don't ban it here will be a catastrophic injury on the play down the road.  That's what it seemed like to me based on how he's answered the questions at the last owners meaning.  Even though we benefit from the tush push.

 

So if he was so dead set against it on the grounds of player safety, the Bills won't use it this year?  To use it would seem hypocritical if the argument was player safety.

[NyQuil]

LOL at Miami and New England.

 

Hope we score two TDs via rush push in each game against them.

[Bill from NYC]

It works so well foir the Eagles because:

 

1) Although he doesn't look that much the part, Jalen Hurts is a monster in the weight room. He is super strong and is very tough to stop.

 

2) Watch the replays and look at that offensive line. They are crushing defenders. Defense are smaller these day because it is more of a passing league. I have seen Landon Dickerson push defenders three yards or more into the endzone. I could have scored a TD on some of those plays. OK I would be in either the hospital or morgue upon completion but you get my point.

 

I think it is good for the game. If other teams want to do this, nothing is stopping them from concentrating more on blockers on draft day.Barkley is great, but he didn't get those yards on his own. He had a great, physical OL in front of him. 

 

If the Bills were utilizing this play as well as the Eagles the fans cheering would be deafening, and I would be leading the chorus.

 

Jmo.

[mannc]

It’s a rugby play that has no place in football.  Get rid of it.

[Chandler#81]

11 hours ago, Old Coot said:

It's a Rugby scrum minus the hookers.

What's up with this? Your thoughts?

No Hookers? Not interested!

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, wjag said:

 

So if he was so dead set against it on the grounds of player safety, the Bills won't use it this year?  To use it would seem hypocritical if the argument was player safety.

He has two separate jobs.  One on the competition committee and one as the head coach.  What he does on the competition committee should have nothing to do with what he does as a head coach.  He'll keep running it as long as the league allows it.

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, mannc said:

It’s a rugby play that has no place in football.  Get rid of it.

This seems like a talking point. In what way is it a rugby play? And if it is….isnt a simple pitch play one also? OJ made a career out of that one. 

[Mr. WEO]

It's amazing so much energy is being expended on a perfectly legal football play any team can use.  It matches strength vs strength.  Eliminating it because one team is really good at it makes no sense. 

 

 

It is so rarely used (0.285% of all Offensive plays last year), it's not worth debating.

[Einstein's Dog]

15 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

What?

 

1. We don’t have plays that are hard to officiate? Since when? EVERY QB sneak is hard to spot.

 

2. Boring? Really? I guess we can’t allow the kneel down.

 

3. QB is at risk? Then don’t run the play!!!! It’s a choice. 

 

4. Unfair to defense? Right! We can’t have a play that’s hard to defend. Huh? 
 

5. Your final comment is NOT an argument against the tush push. But, as long as you went there, why not allow a player to be thrown over the line. Again, isn’t it the offense’s choice? 

 

Responses:

1.  Just because you have some hard to officiate plays does not mean you should have more.  Less hard to officiate plays the better.  It's a scrum and the officials (and fans at first) have no clue how far the ball went.  The real injustice showed in the KC/Bills game where even upon their limited review they still got it wrong.

2.  Once again, just because you have some boring plays does not mean you need more.  They have a chance to get rid of an ugly boring play - they should do it.

3.  Yes, obviously there is a chance the QB gets hurt.  Of course you have the option of not running the odds on most successful playt, but that is hard for a coach to opt for.  Kind of like when the Bills didn't want to run Josh, the Dorsey offense took a hit for it.  Can you imagine the heat McD would have received had he chose to hand the ball off on that 4tth and inches and not gotten it?  

4.  The unfairness to the defense was exposed in the WA game, where they had a defense of sending a person over the top at the snap of the ball.  They mis-timed it a few times and were told that the next time the offense would be awarded a TD - that was ridiculous.

5.  Allowing a person to be thrown over a pile would be a terrible move for the sport of football, kind of like the tush-push is now.  It was an example of the sport needing to put a rule in for something they did not foresee.

[Fr. Jerk]

Josh getting his pooper pushed works good on Sundays, ya dig?

[BigDingus]

15 hours ago, QCity said:

 

Really? This isn't hard to justify or understand.

 

What's the justification? 

 

I legit do not see any evidence to suggest this play is any more dangerous than other regular plays. Not only that, nobody is FORCING the Bills to utilize the play. 

 

If they're so adamant against it, why did they use it so much? Is he just embarrassed that they failed miserably in the AFCCG? 

 

And if I'm wrong, please show me the evidence that suggests the tush push is a more dangerous play than normal. You say it's not hard to justify or understand, yet I don't see any justification other than "it looks dumb."

[mannc]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

This seems like a talking point. In what way is it a rugby play? And if it is….isnt a simple pitch play one also? OJ made a career out of that one. 

In rugby, when the ball is near the goal line, the team in possession often forms a scrum and simply tries to push the ball over the line by shoving the other team backwards, just like the tush push.  As you may recall, until fairly recently, it was a penalty for another offensive player to "aid the runner" by pushing him forward.  No idea why or when that ancient rule was changed.  And no, a simple pitch play isn't really a rugby play (perhaps more of a Rugby League play), although it certainly happens in Rugby Union, too. 

[The Red King]

We need to innovate.  Beyond the pushing peeps we need some 350-400 pound bulk to start in motion, and then at the snap take all that mass in motion, turn, and just plow into the back of the guy with the ball. 🤣

[Einstein's Dog]

30 minutes ago, mannc said:

In rugby, when the ball is near the goal line, the team in possession often forms a scrum and simply tries to push the ball over the line by shoving the other team backwards, just like the tush push.  As you may recall, until fairly recently, it was a penalty for another offensive player to "aid the runner" by pushing him forward.  No idea why or when that ancient rule was changed.  And no, a simple pitch play isn't really a rugby play (perhaps more of a Rugby League play), although it certainly happens in Rugby Union, too. 

I agree, they had (have?) rules against pulling, rules against pushing seem quite similar.

 

Also they don't allow the defense credit when they push the runner back - the forward progress thing. 

They should not allow forward progress for the offense from someone pushing. 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, BigDingus said:

 

What's the justification? 

 

I legit do not see any evidence to suggest this play is any more dangerous than other regular plays. Not only that, nobody is FORCING the Bills to utilize the play. 

 

If they're so adamant against it, why did they use it so much? Is he just embarrassed that they failed miserably in the AFCCG? 

 

And if I'm wrong, please show me the evidence that suggests the tush push is a more dangerous play than normal. You say it's not hard to justify or understand, yet I don't see any justification other than "it looks dumb."

Seems safe....

 

 

I've successfully drove home drunk over 50 times so their isn't any proof that it might lead to a crash.

[SoCal Deek]

I know I’m old but some of you must be ancient. Did you complain about the forward pass? How about soccer style kicking? Sheeesh! 

[Doc Brown]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I know I’m old but some of you must be ancient. Did you complain about the forward pass? How about soccer style kicking? Sheeesh! 

It's pry the opposite.  This would be considered a very old school play that if it was run during the 60's we would've looked back and laughed at it.  The NFL has made rules to enhance the offense which has led to the popularity of the game exploding to the point where the first round of the NFL Draft gets about the same ratings as a World Series game.  The ONLY reason Goodell pushed to ban this is it's bad TV.

Edited 21 minutes ago by Doc Brown

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's pry the opposite.  This would be considered a very old school play that if it was run during the 60's we would've looked back and laughed at it.  The NFL has made rules to enhance the offense which has led to the popularity of the game exploding to the point where the first round of the NFL Draft gets about the same ratings as a World Series game.  The ONLY reason Goodell pushed to ban this is it's bad TV.

I’d go back to calling intentional grounding before I go rid of this totally benign play 

[dickleyjones]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

This seems like a talking point. In what way is it a rugby play? And if it is….isnt a simple pitch play one also? OJ made a career out of that one. 

And further, how is it relevant that rugby has a similar play? Seems odd to make rulings based on similarities to another game...