3rdand12 Posted July 8 Posted July 8 7 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Yeah, but he’s still skinny… 🤣 Me too dang 1 Quote
Doc Brown Posted July 8 Posted July 8 4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Again, the big issue with Dalton Kincaid was just that he was HORRENDOUS in the playoffs. Yeah he hasn't played up to expectations but his regular season play was pretty innocuous. They barely needed him in the regular season. I keep hearing the sob stories about his knee injuries.......well he must have been playing with two sprained hands in the playoffs because the issue wasn't his running it was that he couldn't catch the damn ball. That drop could absolute play mental games with him in future playoff games. You saw it with Mark Andrews last year in the playoffs. Drops one, fumbles another, and then in their most important play of the season they go back to him again? 1 Quote
Buffalo716 Posted July 8 Posted July 8 30 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: That drop could absolute play mental games with him in future playoff games. You saw it with Mark Andrews last year in the playoffs. Drops one, fumbles another, and then in their most important play of the season they go back to him again? Difference is Mark Andrews has kind of been dropping that big ball for 5 or 6 years Kincaid just didn't have a better sophomore campaign than his freshman most players take their biggest leaps between years one and two or two and three.. Kincaid didn't have a big leap between one and two so this is probably his year where he takes the biggest growth 1 Quote
Buffalo ill Posted July 8 Posted July 8 I just want first round draft picks (i know Coleman is second round, but put him in this group) to make an impact in big games. Last 4-5 years have been meh in terms of first round production. 1 Quote
SCBills Posted July 8 Posted July 8 9 minutes ago, Buffalo ill said: I just want first round draft picks (i know Coleman is second round, but put him in this group) to make an impact in big games. Last 4-5 years have been meh in terms of first round production. Difference between Buffalo and Kansas City is so small in these games. Chris Jones pushed Dawkins back into Allen in the ‘23 Divisional and we don’t get the go-ahead TD.. instead miss a game-tying FG. Does Kelce catch that miracle pass Allen got off to Kincaid at the end of the AFC CG? Probably. We haven’t had a Jones or Kelce to ride with Allen. Not even Diggs was that in the Playoffs sadly. Even with the injury disparity we’ve had vs them when it matters, we’ve still had our chances. It’s just been evident that Allen has no game changers out there with him on either side of the ball. Mahomes has always had 2-3.. maybe that’s just Jones now, but I believe Kelce makes the play Kincaid didn’t. (And I know injuries and all that .. injuries can’t be the excuse every year) We need some of these high end investments to at least attempt to be game changers at some point. 1 4 Quote
Sierra Foothills Posted July 8 Posted July 8 On 5/20/2025 at 3:04 PM, BigDingus said: This guy posted videos compiling all passes of 20+ yards from a clean pocket of many QBs, and you start to see Josh just does not have the touch, timing or accuracy for a lot of these throws. Sometimes we were successful, and sometimes it was the WRs fault (or just a great defensive play), but more often than not, our targets just aren't getting good enough passes thrown to them. But again, Kincaid has bigger issues than JUST passes of 20+ yards. @HappyDays pretty much nailed it describing the miscues. And I wholeheartedly agree about Kincaid needing to be able to come down with difficult catches more often. Not every pass is going to be perfect, but a top-tier TE needs to be able to make those plays in order to be successful (but in this video, you'll notice how good Cooper was at catching those kinds of passes in tight traffic). I watched what you posted (thank you) but I don't agree with the conclusion (bolded above). It seems like maybe about 35-40 throws in the video? I saw maybe 5 poor throws. There were also some throwaways and some 50/50 balls that I don't consider bad throws. My impression is that the bigger issues on these throws are a lack of separation by the receivers and also, drops. On 5/26/2025 at 7:51 PM, SoonerBillsFan said: In most all of those throws,his footwork is crap. He relies on his arm too much. He needs to set his feet better and transfer his weight. He still seems skiddish in the pocket, just take your drop and relax and throw. I agree with this as far as the really deep throws (not just 20 yards downfield). The home run throws are one area where Josh still needs more work and I agree that a lot of it is footwork. That is the one and only area in which Jimbo is clearly superior to Josh. Jimbo threw a beautiful bomb. As far as Kincaid, I'm hopeful that he'll show that he's worth his draft position (he hasn't yet IMO). I'm more hopeful than I am confident. 1 1 Quote
In Summary Posted July 8 Posted July 8 3 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said: The home run throws are one area where Josh still needs more work and I agree that a lot of it is footwork. That is the one and only area in which Jimbo is clearly superior to Josh. Jimbo threw a beautiful bomb. ...and a better short area touch pass. 1 1 Quote
Thurman#1 Posted July 8 Posted July 8 On 5/21/2025 at 4:44 AM, TheFunPolice said: I remember draft night all the pundits acted like we just drafted the second coming of Travis Kelce. One guy (can't remember who) actually said "anyone who lets the Bills get Kincaid to pair with Allen deserves what they get!" (or words to that effect). Now, I watch basically zero college football and admittedly know little about it. I'll be watching NC this year just for the show. But all of a sudden everyone is gushing about this TE that I just heard of for the first time 5 minutes before and I admit... I was pumped! We got a superstar level TE possibly. That probably has colored my view of Kincaid's career. He has not even been good, let alone scary. He absolutely has been good, damn good. But then not so good. He's been up and down. His first year he was really good. Second year up and down, and more down. But it's just not so that he's never been good. Quote
Thurman#1 Posted July 8 Posted July 8 (edited) On 5/29/2025 at 6:50 PM, Pete said: Pretty ordinary cactches by NFL TE. Dalton dropped that pass in the Broncos game. Im shocked Denver didn't challenge. Name a starting TE in the NFL and I will post a better highlight reel. Not only were they ordinary catches, but as per usual, Dalton is tackled upon first contact Nonsense. Those aren't ordinary catches. They're damn good. Incredibly spectacular? No. But damn good catches, for TEs or anyone else. You're right about going down easily more often last year. But you don't see that when you go back and look at his rookie year. When healthy he was bouncing off guys and running through arm tackles, and doing it an awful lot. Edited July 8 by Thurman#1 1 Quote
Pete Posted July 8 Posted July 8 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Nonsense. Those aren't ordinary catches. They're damn good. Incredibly spectacular? No. But damn good catches, for TEs or anyone else. You're right about going down easily more often last year. But you don't see that when you go back and look at his rookie year. When healthy he was bouncing off guys and running through arm tackles, and doing it an awful lot. https://www.buffalobills.com/video/dalton-kincaid-s-35-yard-diving-grab-advances-bills-into-broncos-territory-bills-vs-broncos That’s not a catch. Many, I’d guess, most starting Tight Ends could make that catch cleanly. Most starting Tight Ends would of caught that. These are two huge drops in big spots in playoff games. That’s where winners, such as David Tyree, make game winning plays. Playoffs is where it counts most. And Dalton needs to step up this playoffs. Or it’s Choke City again. My problem is the drops in big spots. I understand Daltons Separation and YAC numbers are very good(I find YAC shocking). Bills receivers tend to break out year 3. Dalton should be healthier. Taking all of that into consideration, I am cautiously optimistic.. Hopefully Dalton is putting in the work, with Josh, and on own- dialing it in and becoming the player he’s capable of being. Go Dalton! Go Bills! watching that video over and over, it appears to me that Josh threw it to the soft spot of the zone, where Dalton was supposed to be. It appears Dalton is the correct spot, turns, runs straight towards two Chiefs, getting himself off his landmark, which then he has to reverse direction for, and he dives back to correct spot where is supposed to be. Edited July 8 by Pete 2 1 Quote
Mat68 Posted July 8 Posted July 8 10 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said: I watched what you posted (thank you) but I don't agree with the conclusion (bolded above). It seems like maybe about 35-40 throws in the video? I saw maybe 5 poor throws. There were also some throwaways and some 50/50 balls that I don't consider bad throws. My impression is that the bigger issues on these throws are a lack of separation by the receivers and also, drops. I agree with this as far as the really deep throws (not just 20 yards downfield). The home run throws are one area where Josh still needs more work and I agree that a lot of it is footwork. That is the one and only area in which Jimbo is clearly superior to Josh. Jimbo threw a beautiful bomb. As far as Kincaid, I'm hopeful that he'll show that he's worth his draft position (he hasn't yet IMO). I'm more hopeful than I am confident. Deep throws, homerun balls at the level of Allen and Kelly are 99.9% due to the wr. Before Randy Moss, James Lofton was the best deep ball wr of all time. Andre Reed is the greatest wr in franchise history. Best deep ball wr Allen played with was Jon Brown? Diggs was great here but much more intermediate than a deep threat. Is Tua a better passer over 20 yards compared to Allen or does Hill and Waddle come down with his arm punts? Tua has been tops in the league since Hill and before he was in Miami Mahomes was the best with Hill. 2 Quote
Ned Flanders Posted July 8 Posted July 8 1 hour ago, Pete said: Most starting Tight Ends would of caught that. Exactly. I've had some tell me the Kincaid drop was a harder catch than the Ronnie Harmon debacle. I disagree. An NFL receiver has to come up with that ball. 1 Quote
zow2 Posted July 8 Posted July 8 The ball went between his arms, why is this still a debate?! catch it 100 times out of 100. Is he still too skinny? 1 1 Quote
3rdand12 Posted July 8 Posted July 8 19 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Difference is Mark Andrews has kind of been dropping that big ball for 5 or 6 years Kincaid just didn't have a better sophomore campaign than his freshman most players take their biggest leaps between years one and two or two and three.. Kincaid didn't have a big leap between one and two so this is probably his year where he takes the biggest growth Both with health and mental fortitude. I almost expect it. Brady will have an effect on that too. Perhaps get him involved earlier and get him a few easy successes . Quote
Thurman#1 Posted July 9 Posted July 9 (edited) 21 hours ago, Pete said: https://www.buffalobills.com/video/dalton-kincaid-s-35-yard-diving-grab-advances-bills-into-broncos-territory-bills-vs-broncos That’s not a catch. Many, I’d guess, most starting Tight Ends could make that catch cleanly. Most starting Tight Ends would of caught that. These are two huge drops in big spots in playoff games. That’s where winners, such as David Tyree, make game winning plays. Playoffs is where it counts most. And Dalton needs to step up this playoffs. Or it’s Choke City again. My problem is the drops in big spots. I understand Daltons Separation and YAC numbers are very good(I find YAC shocking). Bills receivers tend to break out year 3. Dalton should be healthier. Taking all of that into consideration, I am cautiously optimistic.. Hopefully Dalton is putting in the work, with Josh, and on own- dialing it in and becoming the player he’s capable of being. Go Dalton! Go Bills! watching that video over and over, it appears to me that Josh threw it to the soft spot of the zone, where Dalton was supposed to be. It appears Dalton is the correct spot, turns, runs straight towards two Chiefs, getting himself off his landmark, which then he has to reverse direction for, and he dives back to correct spot where is supposed to be. Is anyone arguing that that was not a drop? Are you arguing that there are any WRs who have never had a drop? Sorry, that's a dumb argument. Yeah, most TEs would have caught that probably 70% of the time. So would Kincaid. He didn't. No way around that, but it was a tough play, one that he usually makes, but did not that time. But your argument about what happened on that play is a bit nuts. He was not running towards any Chiefs. Just the opposite. If Josh had thrown directly ahead of him on the route he was running at that time, that was an easy TD. Easy. There would have been nobody with 5 yards of him or anywhere upfield of him. Instead, Josh, under duress but capable of terrific throws under duress, threw it way behind him, making it a difficult catch. Here's a screenshot of that play from the All-22 just as Josh let it go: There is nobody, and I mean absolutely NOBODY where Kincaid is running. The idea that he's running towards two Chiefs is completely and absolutely ridiculous. Josh throws that ahead of Kincaid and it is without question a TD. But I do understand why you changed the subject. You argued that those four catches weren't very fine catches. And they clearly were. No wonder you didn't comment, but instead moved the goalposts. Edited July 9 by Thurman#1 1 Quote
Pete Posted July 9 Posted July 9 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: Is anyone arguing that that was not a drop? Are you arguing that there are any WRs who have never had a drop? Sorry, that's a dumb argument. Yeah, most TEs would have caught that probably 70% of the time. So would Kincaid. He didn't. No way around that, but it was a tough play, one that he usually makes, but did not that time. But your argument about what happened on that play is a bit nuts. He was not running towards any Chiefs. Just the opposite. If Josh had thrown directly ahead of him on the route he was running at that time, that was an easy TD. Easy. There would have been nobody with 5 yards of him or anywhere upfield of him. Instead, Josh, under duress but capable of terrific throws under duress, threw it way behind him, making it a difficult catch. Here's a screenshot of that play from the All-22 just as Josh let it go: There is nobody, and I mean absolutely NOBODY where Kincaid is running. The idea that he's running towards two Chiefs is completely and absolutely ridiculous. Josh throws that ahead of Kincaid and it is without question a TD. But I do understand why you changed the subject. You argued that those four catches weren't very fine catches. And they clearly were. No wonder you didn't comment, but instead moved the goalposts. I succinctly stated my position Mr Projector- Goal Post Mover. My problem is the drops in big spots. And you ignored this part of my post Taking all of that into consideration, I am cautiously optimistic.. Hopefully Dalton is putting in the work, with Josh, and on own- dialing it in and becoming the player he’s capable of being. Go Dalton! Ive never seen that screen shot before. Id still like to see that angle, live sequence Go Bills! Quote
Thurman#1 Posted July 9 Posted July 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pete said: I succinctly stated my position Mr Projector- Goal Post Mover. My problem is the drops in big spots. And you ignored this part of my post Taking all of that into consideration, I am cautiously optimistic.. Hopefully Dalton is putting in the work, with Josh, and on own- dialing it in and becoming the player he’s capable of being. Go Dalton! Ive never seen that screen shot before. Id still like to see that angle, live sequence Go Bills! You did state your position. On something completely different from what I had called you out on. You moved the goal posts. You challenged someone to post good catches by Kincaid, and Doc Brown did precisely that. And you said they weren't good, that they were average. It was a ridiculous contention, and I called you out on it. You replied specifically to that post of mine, and yet didn't say a single word about those four highlights Doc posted. You instead changed the subject, precisely as you showed in big letters above. If you have a problem that has nothing whatsoever to do with my post, that's fine. Unless you do it in a reply to my post. Which is exactly what you did. You replied to me, moved the goal posts and totally changed the subject, addressing not a single thing from my post. Again, feel free to bring up other points. But not when replying to a post about something completely different. When you do that, people will accuse you of moving the goal posts. Reason being, that's exactly what you're doing, moving the goal posts. As for the screen shot photo, yeah, you haven't seen it before because as I said, I screen-shotted it myself. From the All-22 film. You can very easily get the angle in a live sequence by looking at the All-22. It's right there on NFL Plus, as we speak. I just accessed it and copied the screen shot about, what? 45 minutes ago, probably. I'm sorry it's such crappy resolution. I usually watch in full-screen. Then I screen-shotted about half the field and tried to post it and TBD sends me a message saying it's too much data and it won't accept it. I cut the borders down and try again, same problem. I keep cutting it down, but reach a point where if I cut any more you can't tell what's going on. So then I make the window smaller and smaller. Usually somewhere around the point where the window is 2 x 3 inches and I'm still showing the minimum I can to show what's happening, the data gets small enough and TBD accepts it. I promise that's the correct play, and I promise I did my best not to frame the story to twist the narrative. This is a good attempt to show what the situation actually was. Nobody else on the field was going to get a chance to be involved in that play if Josh puts that ball out in front of Kincaid. Edited July 9 by Thurman#1 Quote
Long Suffering Fan Posted July 9 Posted July 9 On 7/8/2025 at 9:11 AM, Pete said: Most starting Tight Ends would of caught that. 19 hours ago, zow2 said: The ball went between his arms, why is this still a debate?! catch it 100 times out of 100. Is he still too skinny? 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Here's a screenshot of that play from the All-22 just as Josh let it go: Thank you both for posting that clip and that screenshot. This is an elite level play by Josh. I'll say it again - the drop is only half of the problem. Dalton adjusts to the ball late in the air. He should have been standing underneath it like he was fielding a punt. Fortunately, that is a skill that can be learned. He dropped it, yes, but first he made the catch harder than it needed to be. 1 Quote
Thurman#1 Posted July 9 Posted July 9 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Long Suffering Fan said: Thank you both for posting that clip and that screenshot. This is an elite level play by Josh. I'll say it again - the drop is only half of the problem. Dalton adjusts to the ball late in the air. He should have been standing underneath it like he was fielding a punt. Fortunately, that is a skill that can be learned. He dropped it, yes, but first he made the catch harder than it needed to be. No, not at all. The problem is that the throw from Josh was way the hell behind Kincaid. He had to actually stop, turn 180 degrees and go back for it, and he still had to dive for it. It was a hard play. One he should have made, but a hard play and a damn tough one for a guy on two bad knees. Edited July 9 by Thurman#1 2 Quote
Long Suffering Fan Posted July 9 Posted July 9 3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: No, not at all. The problem is that the throw from Josh was way the hell behind Kincaid. He had to actually stop, turn 180 degrees and go back for it, and he still had to dive for it. It was a hard play. One he should have made, but a hard play and a tough one for a guy on two bad knees. I'm not saying that Kincaid didn't do those things. I'm saying that he runs 15-20 yards or so after the ball is released and this was not a laser throw Look at his footwork just as he enters the frame and you can tell that he didn't track the ball well. It looks like he slows down, speeds up, and then realizes his mistake and slams on the brakes. The majority of the time an NFL WR (and even Dalton himself some of the time) would have settled under the ball and not over ran it. Quote
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