Is Ed Oliver still on the team by September?

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Ed Oliver is a solid DT and provides much needed pass rush ability in the interior. I don’t get the hate he receives. He is one of the main reasons this is a perennial top 10 defense. Ask Joe Burrow what it’s like to have to win shootouts every week. 

[Simon]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Meh. Maybe. I'm not sure. I think that might be looking for an excuse where he just didn't play well.

 

It's not an excuse, it's the reality of an undersized DT who has to work harder to beat bigger players.

Increased exertion leads to more injuries and if the guy wants to be healthy and ready to go down the stretch and in the postseason, this is how he's going to have to approach the rest of his career.

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

It's not an excuse, it's the reality of an undersized DT who has to work harder to beat bigger players.

Increased exertion leads to more injuries and if the guy wants to be healthy and ready to go down the stretch and in the postseason, this is how he's going to have to approach the rest of his career.

 

I'm still not persuaded. 

[SoTier]

 

57 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Ed Oliver is a solid DT and provides much needed pass rush ability in the interior. I don’t get the hate he receives. He is one of the main reasons this is a perennial top 10 defense. Ask Joe Burrow what it’s like to have to win shootouts every week. 

 

Some people need a scapegoat.

[PoundingDog]

Ed Oliver is not the worst pick of Beane, but to me, pretty significant in the sense that he was not able to get a Bonafide elite player when there were such players in consideration (Simmons e.g.) in the same draft. The Bills have not, and probably will never going to be in the same position (#9 overall) at the draft table to draft an elite talent in Allen's tenure as Bills QB.

 

In hindsight, Aaron Donald's success probably influenced Beane. Athletically, Oliver and Donald measured very closely, but I see that additional power and reach Donald had over Oliver played wonder to him along with superior technic. A HoF (maybe the best DT in NFL history) compared to a solid good player; the margin is that small. Donald does have a prototypical DT body. You need all the other things to make it work. Oliver has an even shorter arm (31+" compared to the average 33+"). I don't know I'd have banking on lightening struck twice by hoping Oliver became Donald light myself. 

 

Oliver did watch Donald's tape. I remember he marveled at Donald's hand usage, saying it is the best he has ever seen.

 

[HappyDays]

29 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

It's not an excuse, it's the reality of an undersized DT who has to work harder to beat bigger players.

Increased exertion leads to more injuries and if the guy wants to be healthy and ready to go down the stretch and in the postseason, this is how he's going to have to approach the rest of his career.

 

The counterargument is Aaron Donald, another undersized DT with short arms who still managed to produce at a Hall of Fame level for entire seasons. I don't know how well known this is but Donald had an all-time work ethic. He retired somewhat early specifically because he didn't want to put in the grueling work required for his body type anymore.

 

I'm not going to say Oliver is lazy, but I also don't think he is committing quite as much as he could to reaching his full potential.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

14 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Ed Oliver is not the worst pick of Beane, but to me, pretty significant in the sense that he was not able to get a Bonafide elite player when there were such players in consideration (Simmons e.g.) in the same draft. The Bills have not, and probably will never going to be in the same position (#9 overall) at the draft table to draft an elite talent in Allen's tenure as Bills QB.

 

In hindsight, Aaron Donald's success probably influenced Beane. Athletically, Oliver and Donald measured very closely, but I see that additional power and reach Donald had over Oliver played wonder to him along with superior technic. A HoF (maybe the best DT in NFL history) compared to a solid good player; the margin is that small. Donald does have a prototypical DT body. You need all the other things to make it work. Oliver has an even shorter arm (31+" compared to the average 33+"). I don't know I'd have banking on lightening struck twice by hoping Oliver became Donald light myself. 

 

Oliver did watch Donald's tape. I remember he marveled at Donald's hand usage, saying it is the best he has ever seen.

 

 

It hurts that the next 3 DTs off the board are all better than Oilver. Wilkins at 13, Lawrence at 17, and Simmons at 19. 

 

If Oliver had been a 2nd rd pick we'd all probably love his production. Just kinda disappointing for #9 overall. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

It hurts that the next 3 DTs off the board are all better than Oilver. Wilkins at 13, Lawrence at 17, and Simmons at 19. 

 

If Oliver had been a 2nd rd pick we'd all probably love his production. Just kinda disappointing for #9 overall. 

 

Far from a bust though.  He was a pre-season #1 overall type player so it's hard to ignore hype like that at #9.  Lawrence and Wilkins were teammates so that can create some challenges scouting - was one looking better because of the other etc.  Lawrence also projected as a pure 1T which usually isn't a 1st round priority.  

[Simon]

32 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The counterargument is Aaron Donald, another undersized DT with short arms who still managed to produce at a Hall of Fame level for entire seasons. I don't know how well known this is but Donald had an all-time work ethic. He retired somewhat early specifically because he didn't want to put in the grueling work required for his body type anymore.

 

I'm not going to say Oliver is lazy, but I also don't think he is committing quite as much as he could to reaching his full potential.

 

I won't disagree with any of that.

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The counterargument is Aaron Donald, another undersized DT with short arms who still managed to produce at a Hall of Fame level for entire seasons. I don't know how well known this is but Donald had an all-time work ethic. He retired somewhat early specifically because he didn't want to put in the grueling work required for his body type anymore.

 

I'm not going to say Oliver is lazy, but I also don't think he is committing quite as much as he could to reaching his full potential.

 

I don't think he was fully committed first part of last year. That is what it looked like. He wasn't on it.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

28 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The counterargument is Aaron Donald, another undersized DT with short arms who still managed to produce at a Hall of Fame level for entire seasons. I don't know how well known this is but Donald had an all-time work ethic. He retired somewhat early specifically because he didn't want to put in the grueling work required for his body type anymore.

 

I'm not going to say Oliver is lazy, but I also don't think he is committing quite as much as he could to reaching his full potential.

 

Donald and Oliver have similar get off, but Donalds power, footwork, and specifically his hands are just next level.  

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Donald and Oliver have similar get off, but Donalds power, footwork, and specifically his hands are just next level.  

Aaron Donald doesn't really have a comp tbh

 

he had all the moves but could also just decide to ragdoll his man straight thru his chest. insane power

 

Oliver has a quick first step but if you get hands on him he kind of just starts churning laterally in 2nd gear

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Clearly he's no Jalen Carter

[3rdand12]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Not sure what went on with the formatting but that is @uticaclub's comment. I'm not sure it is quite right though. Ed creates a ton of his own opportunities. His underlying analytics in terms of pass rush win rates and pressures are in that second half of the top 10 territory. His issue actually is finishing. He is not an elite finisher. Maybe that is just the result of the shorter arms, I think a bit of it is that real killer instinct... but he moves QBs off their spot a ton. He doesn't turn that into enough wrecked plays. Too much game inconveniencer and not game wrecker compared to the very top level elite guys. But he is still a really good player. The only Bills defender I think is better right now is probably Benford. 

If he is asked to move the QB off his spot , I am willing to bet McD is also expecting one his guys to be in that lane to finish the play. And where Bills D line struggles.

 Finishing the play. Could be the rush could be the coverage.

Many of Us have said that Bills need more pressure up the middle, but the ends and LBs and the DBs need to finish

Oliver could be a beast with surrounding cast and Coaching during the playoffs.

 Team game and as mentioned Bills rotate up front often. Get those matchups.

Be a fun year to see what Ed can do with the youngsters Bills just acquired

Edited 9 minutes ago by 3rdand12

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I think a better question will be is Daquan Jones on the roster in September.

 

Oliver isn't one to be a game changer, think if he had more consistent help inside next to him, he'd look much better too.  Has he lived up to his draft pick level, no, but not terrible either