Elijah Moore Visiting the Bills today (Update: Signed!)

[transient]

48 pages and counting for a possible WR5 who may or may not make the team.

 

My take, if Vegas hadn't taken Thorton at 108 (Bills at 109) or if Seattle hadn't taken Horton at 166 (Bills at 170) we probably aren't having this conversation. I suspect Beane had this as a near-guaranteed signing in his back pocket during the draft based on his "put a pin in it" comment and his comments to WGR in his WR rant about no opportunities with how the draft fell to attempt to upgrade his top 4 WRs (this signing does not improve the top 4).

 

As it stands, Moore is competition for the bottom of the roster with Shavers, Shenault, Hamler, Virgil and Prather. If he's better, he'll earn a spot. From a purely numbers standpoint he'll need to replace Hollins 31 receptions, 378 yds, and 5 TDs. TDs aside, given his past production the numbers seem easy enough (though Mack did it on 50 tgts, not 100)... the challenge is Mack tended to snag those balls at critical times, and he was a beast as a blocker. I don't know if they'd be counting on Moore (or anyone else in that illustrious list) to be their "clutch" guy.

[mannc]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

The weird part about it is he gives you nothing that Hollins did. I actually see Palmer as the Hollins replacement/upgrade in the sense that he can play outside, and what you sacrifice in high end run blocking you more than make up for in route running ability.

 

Moore is kind of a weird fit on the roster. He doesn't give us the vertical element that remained our #1 need in the WR room coming out of the draft. I feel like his role ultimately will be spelling Samuel or Shakir in case of injury. Given those players' injury histories it's probably not a bad idea to have a similar skillset able to step in but you'd really rather that player be someone on the PS, not taking up a roster spot. Also a common refrain after the draft was that we need our #5 WR to contribute on special teams but Moore doesn't give you anything there. So he mainly just exists as a redundancy on the roster.

There is a chance that Moore will get a shot at the punt return job…he did it in college and has returned some punts in the NFL.  I think the Bills would love to not have to roster Coddrington, who has no other position.

[Rocky Landing]

53 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The weird part about it is he gives you nothing that Hollins did. I actually see Palmer as the Hollins replacement/upgrade in the sense that he can play outside, and what you sacrifice in high end run blocking you more than make up for in route running ability.

 

Moore is kind of a weird fit on the roster. He doesn't give us the vertical element that remained our #1 need in the WR room coming out of the draft. I feel like his role ultimately will be spelling Samuel or Shakir in case of injury. Given those players' injury histories it's probably not a bad idea to have a similar skillset able to step in but you'd really rather that player be someone on the PS, not taking up a roster spot. Also a common refrain after the draft was that we need our #5 WR to contribute on special teams but Moore doesn't give you anything there. So he mainly just exists as a redundancy on the roster.

I think your comparison to Claypool is a lot closer than any comp to Hollins. I will admit that I haven't watched a lot of Browns football, but I will say that you could see Moore using this speed to gain separation on some occasional deep shots. He can run a go route, and adjusts well to the ball. I also remember watching his first year with the Jets, and being impressed with his speed to the ball on shorter routes-- something Zack Wilson had trouble taking advantage of. I actually think he was better in his rookie year than his numbers suggest.

 

IMO, If he makes the team (kinda doubt he will...) he'll have a role that exploits his speed, but it will be dependent on him developing chemistry with Josh. That's probably more doable for Moore than it was for Claypool (who iirc, suffered an injury in TC?). I would think Moore would have a clearer path onto the 53 than Claypool did, and I think his speed will be enticing to Brady.

 

His biggest hurdle, like Claypool, might actually be his attitude (or perception thereof) which was on full display in year two with the Jets-- something else that makes him very different from Hollins.

[MrEpsYtown]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah @MrEpsYtown is one of our best posters but he has it backward.   Poking holes implies that something looks like it will be great but obscure reasons are being made why it won't.   Moore was horrendous last year and has never been good.   He's more holes than whole.

 

You are spot on that the guys that have worked out had proven their ability elsewhere.   Good receivers can put up stats wherever they are.   In many cases the stats are even better when they are one of the top targets and the QB doesn't see the field well because they get force-fed the ball.   Jerry Jeudy had a breakout year with that bad Browns QB situation.   Moore should have done the same but there is no putting lipstick on that pig of a season he just had.   His traditional bulk stats were terrible for a 100 target guy and his advanced stats were even worse.   

 

We can hope that he learns how to play WR.   That's where we should be with this signing.

I appreciate the kind words. I suppose I land on the side of upside. I think if Moore can’t produce with Allen then his career is likely cooked, but I feel there is still upside there. If they had given Moore the Josh Palmer contract I would have lost it. But to me, all one year deals are no risk propositions. And I do like Moore better than anyone we could have drafted but I think Jeudy is just better. You hope that Royals or Horton have a year like Moore did last year. I think it is ok to like the signing but also keep hopes in line with what is reasonable. 

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Elite WR's can put up good stats wherever they are.. to your first bolded.. no one is saying Moore is elite.. 

 

To the second BOLDED..   these are horrible takes.. 

Jeudy needed 145 targets to get to 1200 yards..   and the next WR had 102 targets over 500 yards.. that was Moore. If Moore was their #1 WR then your statement would be correct in saying "why did he not produce more.  Cause the 2 players played different roles on the team. A team with a bad QB.  How many WR's had better career numbers here with JA then with their prior teams.  I lost count. 

 

Then you claim Moore should of done the same? as Juedy? Who here is saying Moore is ELITE?  No one.. what we are saying is.. cause the QB he played for in a bad system..  Moore's ceiling is unsure of. 

 

the hate on these boards is just nuts. 

He said good WRs.  I know jack squat when it comes to evaluating WR's.  Trends are much easier to identify though.    If you can find a disappointing WR given where he was drafted that breaks out in year five despite given ample opportunity his first four years to prove himself let me know.  Even with bad Browns QB play last year when they targeted Jeudy they had a 94.7% passer rating.  When they targeted Moore they had a 42.4% passer rating which put him 98th of 98th qualifying WR's according to PFF.  Ideally, if he makes the team he is our 5th WR who I pray will only see the field if one of the top four are injured.

[BananaB]

48 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

He said good WRs.  I know jack squat when it comes to evaluating WR's.  Trends are much easier to identify though.    If you can find a disappointing WR given where he was drafted that breaks out in year five despite given ample opportunity his first four years to prove himself let me know.  Even with bad Browns QB play last year when they targeted Jeudy they had a 94.7% passer rating.  When they targeted Moore they had a 42.4% passer rating which put him 98th of 98th qualifying WR's according to PFF.  Ideally, if he makes the team he is our 5th WR who I pray will only see the field if one of the top four are injured.

There is a lot more WRs drafted in that same area as him that have done nothing. Him and Jeuty played different rolls in the O. Moore still caught 60 balls out of 100 targets with 35 considered uncatchable. So is he to blame for the uncatchable passes or the QB? 

[Steptide]

Was listening to one bills live the other day and from the callers calling in about Moore, you'd have thunk we just traded for Diggs again in 2020😅. People were legit saying he's one of the best in the nfl. I'm all for this signing, and hopefully he becomes one of the best in the nfl, but man, people can be such Homers

[folz]

I don't know much about any attitude issues in NY or Cleveland. But, if that is the case, I can understand that as a concern. But, it also can depend on why he was disgruntled (if he was). Was he just frustrated about not winning (his teams went 25-68 over the last 4 years, 3 losing seasons, a 3-win season, and a 4-win season). QB play? Or was it due to lack of work ethic or issues with coaches or teammates, etc. So, if it was the former, well the Bills win a lot and as they say winning solves a lot of issues. And our locker room is so strong that it can handle a couple of guys that may not be perfect Bills DNA. But would they have brought him in if they thought his attitude, etc. was that bad? It's hard for me to think that Beane and McD would be ok with a guy who has bad work ethic, or attitude with coaches/teammates, etc. Maybe we'll find he's like Diggs (attitude-wise, not skill-wise), or maybe he'll turn things around in a better organization with a better QB.

 

And I know it has been repeated by a number of posters, but I think it's tough to judge him too harshly on last year (2024).

-His offensive coordinator was Ken Dorsey

-Cleveland is a mess of a franchise

-They were a 3-win team

-He had 4 different quarterbacks in 2024 and none of them were good [Deshaun Watson (7 games), Joe Flacco (6 games), Dorian Thompson-Robinson (3 games), Bailey Zappe (1 game)]. I would expect it isn't the easiest thing for a receiver to adjust to 4 different QBs in one season.

 

And 2023 wasn't any better from a QB standpoint. In 2023, 5 QBs started for the Browns: Watson (6 games), Flacco (5 games), Dorian T-R (3 games), P.J. Walker (2 games), and Jeff Drskell (1 game). So, again, not only were his QBs bad, but for 2 years it was a constant rotation of 6 different QBs. Alex Van Pelt was his offensive coordinator. 

 

How about 2022 with the Jets? Yep, once again, 4 different starting QBs. Wilson (9 games), Flacco (4 games), Mike White (4 games), Chris Steveler (1 game). 

 

How about 2021: Yep, 4 different QBs again. Wilson (13 games), Flacco (1 game), Mike White (3 games), Josh Johnson (did not have a start, but played in 3 games). 

 

Honestly, how many WRs are going to thrive in that situation? Your first 4 years in the league: 2 teams, 3 offensive coordinators, and 10 different QBs throwing the ball to you. It means in your first 68 games, your QB changed at least 14 different times (probably more if guys were say in and out with injuries or whatever). That's a different QB (at least) every 4.8 games on average.

 

And that also leads me to player development. The Jets are obviously horrible at player development, as are the Browns. So, how much proper teaching/training did he actually get, etc. Plus, 3 of those 4 years he was learning a new offense, plus all of the QB turnover. Never having one guy to settle in with. The Bills happen to actually be very good at player development. So, maybe they can help him raise his game (in a more stable environment). 

 

And I don't expect him to go off and have some crazy year or anything (I mean, he's WR5, how much do you actually expect of your 5th receiver). But, I also think that it's crazy not to believe that having Josh (and only Josh) throwing him the ball instead of the myriad of ever-changing garbage QBs he's had won't improve his game (even if his overall numbers aren't big due to number of targets in our offense).

 

 

To be fair here, I have not watched a lot of Elijah Moore's games, etc. So, the naysayers may be right. I just find it hard, like others, to think that a young player who has probably had very little positive development, was with horrible organizations, and had a carousel of bad QBs constantly rotating doesn't still have room to grow and improve. I think it's a bit unfair to write his career off after just 4 years, with the circumstances he's faced (even if some of it was self-inflicted---if say he forced his way out of NY or whatever). He may never be a star, but I'm not sure how some posters can be so positive that he can't continue to improve or become at least a viable 5th option/injury fill in. I mean, I don't love his career catch percentage (or the ypc last year)...but I'm optimistic with our staff and Josh throwing him the ball that he can continue to get better as a player...and maybe reach some of his potential.

 

For the naysayers, do you really think that the circumstances of his early career might not have stunted or affected his growth/development at all? Do you really think he has no room for growth as just a 5th year guy (25 years old)? Do you really think that the Bills organization and having Josh as your QB might not make him a better player (considering where he is coming from)?

 

I'm willing to give him a chance to show us that he's better than what he's shown so far and that he still has room for growth/improvement.

 

Edited 9 hours ago by folz

[BillytheKid]

3 hours ago, transient said:

48 pages and counting for a possible WR5 who may or may not make the team.

 

My take, if Vegas hadn't taken Thorton at 108 (Bills at 109) or if Seattle hadn't taken Horton at 166 (Bills at 170) we probably aren't having this conversation. I suspect Beane had this as a near-guaranteed signing in his back pocket during the draft based on his "put a pin in it" comment and his comments to WGR in his WR rant about no opportunities with how the draft fell to attempt to upgrade his top 4 WRs (this signing does not improve the top 4).

 

As it stands, Moore is competition for the bottom of the roster with Shavers, Shenault, Hamler, Virgil and Prather. If he's better, he'll earn a spot. From a purely numbers standpoint he'll need to replace Hollins 31 receptions, 378 yds, and 5 TDs. TDs aside, given his past production the numbers seem easy enough (though Mack did it on 50 tgts, not 100)... the challenge is Mack tended to snag those balls at critical times, and he was a beast as a blocker. I don't know if they'd be counting on Moore (or anyone else in that illustrious list) to be their "clutch" guy.

This is false. Moore definitely isn’t fighting for the 5th WR spot. He will be starting.  
Palmer, Shakir, and Moore are the 3 best receivers on the team. 
 

Shakir will always be number 1 as far as Josh is concerned but Moore or Palmer could be 2nd or 3rd. 
 

They both have already proved they can play in the league. The Bills didn’t bring him in to be the 5th receiver.

 

Samuel also will be in the top 4 if he plays like he did the last third of the season from last year and the fact he has already proven he can play in the league. 
 

Right now Keon is going to have to be the one to prove himself as he had a major drop off 2nd half of last season and Beane and McDermott were not happy with him. Can he play well enough to jump any of these other guys? Maybe but he is in the 5th position right now, I don’t care if they took him as their top pick last year. He has to prove a lot more. 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

The weird part about it is he gives you nothing that Hollins did. I actually see Palmer as the Hollins replacement/upgrade in the sense that he can play outside, and what you sacrifice in high end run blocking you more than make up for in route running ability.

 

Moore is kind of a weird fit on the roster. He doesn't give us the vertical element that remained our #1 need in the WR room coming out of the draft. I feel like his role ultimately will be spelling Samuel or Shakir in case of injury. Given those players' injury histories it's probably not a bad idea to have a similar skillset able to step in but you'd really rather that player be someone on the PS, not taking up a roster spot. Also a common refrain after the draft was that we need our #5 WR to contribute on special teams but Moore doesn't give you anything there. So he mainly just exists as a redundancy on the roster.

 

 

Yep 3rd string slot receiver for $4M.    And the two guys on the boundary would be better fits inside. 😂   

 

 

[GolfandBills]

4 hours ago, transient said:

48 pages and counting for a possible WR5 who may or may not make the team.

 

My take, if Vegas hadn't taken Thorton at 108 (Bills at 109) or if Seattle hadn't taken Horton at 166 (Bills at 170) we probably aren't having this conversation. I suspect Beane had this as a near-guaranteed signing in his back pocket during the draft based on his "put a pin in it" comment and his comments to WGR in his WR rant about no opportunities with how the draft fell to attempt to upgrade his top 4 WRs (this signing does not improve the top 4).

 

As it stands, Moore is competition for the bottom of the roster with Shavers, Shenault, Hamler, Virgil and Prather. If he's better, he'll earn a spot. From a purely numbers standpoint he'll need to replace Hollins 31 receptions, 378 yds, and 5 TDs. TDs aside, given his past production the numbers seem easy enough (though Mack did it on 50 tgts, not 100)... the challenge is Mack tended to snag those balls at critical times, and he was a beast as a blocker. I don't know if they'd be counting on Moore (or anyone else in that illustrious list) to be their "clutch" guy.

lol he’s making the team he’s probably the 2nd/3rd best WR on the roster 

Edited 9 hours ago by GolfandBills

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, mannc said:

There is a chance that Moore will get a shot at the punt return job…he did it in college and has returned some punts in the NFL.  I think the Bills would love to not have to roster Coddrington, who has no other position.

 

 

I doubt there was even that much strategy involved.   It's a stretch for Moore to go back to returning punts.    The reason the team wasn't hovering around .500 on December 1 like they have been often since 2021 is because they didn't give those games away with turnovers like they so often had.   That's pretty much it.    And as the second worst YAC guy in the NFL in 2024 he clearly doesn't have the juice/escapability to be a return guy. 😂

 

I think the music just stopped in free agency and Moore was the only chair available.   92 out of 98 is still top 98, right?   If one of the 4 NFL WR's on the roster gets hurt they are down to practice squad trash that has no business playing offense.   

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by BADOLBILZ

[mannc]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I doubt there was even that much strategy involved.   It's a stretch for Moore to go back to returning punts.    The reason the team wasn't hovering around .500 on December 1 like they have been often since 2021 is because they didn't give those games away with turnovers like they so often had.   That's pretty much it.    And as the second worst YAC guy in the NFL in 2024 he clearly doesn't have the juice/escapability to be a return guy. 😂

 

I think the music just stopped in free agency and Moore was the only chair available.   92 out of 98 is still top 98, right?   If one of the 4 NFL WR's on the roster gets hurt they are down to practice squad trash that has no business playing offense.   

 

 

Would you rather have Amari Cooper, if he could be had for the same price as Moore?  I’m not sure which one I’d rather have.

[SoonerBillsFan]

49 pages. Some still complaining and whining about the guy, posting links,stats whatever.  He is here, complaining well after the fact changes nothing.

 

We have no idea how he or Palmer will do until they are in this offense and Allen gets comfortable with them.

Edited 5 hours ago by SoonerBillsFan

[Krakensabres]

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

Would you rather have Amari Cooper, if he could be had for the same price as Moore?  I’m not sure which one I’d rather have.

It should be pretty clear that Moore is a much better flyer than an old shot cooper. Moore had 35 uncatchable balls out of 100 targets, Insta caught 60… Has 435 speed and is a good route runner… His quarterbacks have been ridiculously bad. At this stage of the career, it’s not even close of a question as to who is the better option.

Edited 7 hours ago by Krakensabres

[BADOLBILZ]

21 minutes ago, mannc said:

Would you rather have Amari Cooper, if he could be had for the same price as Moore?  I’m not sure which one I’d rather have.

 

 

Yes, definitely.   And Cooper is washed.    But he's a pro.   He's not going beat you with mental errors.   He is not going to finish 98 of 98 in lowest passer rating when targeted.    

 

If Moore is guaranteed the money that the tag seemed to guarantee him($3.75M?)........that is more than Mack Hollins was guaranteed($3.5M) on a 2 year deal in New England.   Maybe Hollins wanted NOTHING to do with the Bills......but it makes more sense that they just misplayed their hand with him.    They need more help on the boundary than in the slot.

 

It's all shooting low........bringing back Cooper or Hollins.........but they managed to do worse than low.   If you are a team that only stocks 5 WR on their 53......you should stock 5 GOOD ones.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by BADOLBILZ

[LEBills]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yes, definitely.   And Cooper is washed.    But he's a pro.   He's not going beat you with mental errors.   He is not going to finish 98 of 98 in lowest passer rating when targeted.    

 

If Moore is guaranteed the money that the tag seemed to guarantee him($3.75M?)........that is more than Mack Hollins was guaranteed($3.5M) on a 2 year deal in New England.   Maybe Hollins wanted NOTHING to do with the Bills......but it makes more sense that they just misplayed their hand with him.    They need more help on the boundary than in the slot.

 

It's all shooting low........bringing back Cooper or Hollins.........but they managed to do worse than low.   If you are a team that only stocks 5 WR on their 53......you should stock 5 GOOD ones.

 

My theory with Mack is that he is a hobo and the train he hopped on just happened to bring him to New England

[mannc]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yes, definitely.   And Cooper is washed.    But he's a pro.   He's not going beat you with mental errors.   He is not going to finish 98 of 98 in lowest passer rating when targeted.    

 

If Moore is guaranteed the money that the tag seemed to guarantee him($3.75M?)........that is more than Mack Hollins was guaranteed($3.5M) on a 2 year deal in New England.   Maybe Hollins wanted NOTHING to do with the Bills......but it makes more sense that they just misplayed their hand with him.    They need more help on the boundary than in the slot.

 

It's all shooting low........bringing back Cooper or Hollins.........but they managed to do worse than low.   If you are a team that only stocks 5 WR on their 53......you should stock 5 GOOD ones.

 

 

 

 

 

If we’re only talking about 1 season, I would probably take Cooper.  People forget that he made a lot of big plays last year…two long receptions on third down vs the Chiefs in the regular season, a big touchdown on a slant over the middle in his first game, and a tremendous touchdown catch in the home game vs the Jets when that game was still in doubt.  And of course the famous give-and-go with Josh Allen vs SF in the snow.  Cooper’s contribution to that play is underrated; he made a fantastic one-handed catch on a bad throw from Josh, then had the instinct to pitch it back to Josh when most players probably would have just eaten it…

 

I’m a little surprised the Bills didn’t bring Cooper back; they either didn’t like his attitude (unlikely) or he just doesn’t want to play anymore.

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

I’m a little surprised the Bills didn’t bring Cooper back; they either didn’t like his attitude (unlikely) or he just doesn’t want to play anymore.

I think it's similar with Rasul Douglas.  Think he's washed and/or demanding too much money.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

3 hours ago, mannc said:

Would you rather have Amari Cooper, if he could be had for the same price as Moore?  I’m not sure which one I’d rather have.

Coop is toast. Can’t separate. Easy decision