Why Tom Brady was the GOAT

[Buffalo Boy]

Montana was the GOAT.

   Put him on those Pats teams and flag defenders for even looking at him wrong ( Like Tommy got) and Montana has as much if not more success. 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said:

Pretty good defense/coach every single year he was a pro. 

Like I said, that cheating thing…, 

[Thrivefourfive]

Haha. Wake up and hear Steven A say that Montana leaped Mahomes. 
 

GOOD

3 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Montana was the GOAT.

   Put him on those Pats teams and flag defenders for even looking at him wrong ( Like Tommy got) and Montana has as much if not more success. 

Montana got crushed. I can listen to this. I was staunch Montana until Brady went Buc wild at the end there. But I still appreciate 4-0 in the SB more than X wins-1 loss. But I know I’m wrong for that.

[TheFunPolice]

when you watch old film of the Marino, Kelly, Elway, Montana days... yikes! 

 

QBs would throw the ball, then 2 seconds later some DL would piledrive them into the turf. It looks like a totally different game. 

 

Marino was interviewed Super Bowl week and said it himself. Guys from his era would have stayed a lot healthier and played a lot longer if QB protections existed back then. 

[Buffalo Boy]

20 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

Haha. Wake up and hear Steven A say that Montana leaped Mahomes. 
 

GOOD

Montana got crushed. I can listen to this. I was staunch Montana until Brady went Buc wild at the end there. But I still appreciate 4-0 in the SB more than X wins-1 loss. But I know I’m wrong for that.

It’s a question of eras and comparing them is apples and oranges on some level.

Put Brady or Mahomes on the field with Lawrence Taylor ( and all the other defenders) allowed to do the things he did and neither has the stats or longevity.

[Thrivefourfive]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

It’s a question of eras and comparing them is apples and oranges on some level.

Put Brady or Mahomes on the field with Lawrence Taylor ( and all the other defenders) allowed to do the things he did and neither has the stats or longevity.

I believe that’s exactly my point 😂

[Big Turk]

For one, he never got blown out in any of his SB losses like Mahomes has in both his

[Mark Vader]

22 hours ago, Awwufelloff said:

The mental part of the game is more important than the physical. If you know the perfect play to call on every down, both on defense and offense you win the game.

 

 

A broken iPhone and a video camera specialist helped too.

[US Egg]

Keeping my fingers crossed!

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

On 2/9/2025 at 9:38 AM, Awwufelloff said:

The mental part of the game is more important than the physical. If you know the perfect play to call on every down, both on defense and offense you win the game.

 

 

 

Interesting - Our season ended because no one on our offense knew where the Blitz was coming from on 4th down and was fooled by Spags on the final play.  We had multiple guys running wide open on the play for easy first down but Josh had no time to even see them or attempt to get them the ball after we cheated coverage the wrong direction and gave their defense a free release on Josh.  The result heaving a prayer ball instead.  We literally had 3 players wide open for easy first or massive gains, including Shakir right off the snap and even Kincaid himself (who was running wide open for massive gain opportunity) if we could have better protected and let Josh throw a clean ball.  

 

It's an area we need to be better at in crunch time - on both sides of the ball.  

[thenorthremembers]

On 2/10/2025 at 7:02 AM, Buffalo Boy said:

Montana was the GOAT.

   Put him on those Pats teams and flag defenders for even looking at him wrong ( Like Tommy got) and Montana has as much if not more success. 

Montana had the greatest offensive mind maybe ever in football as his head coach.  Walsh's schemes are still winning football games today in KC, SF and LAR.    He also had the greatest WR of all time on his team.  The guy that replaced Montana won a Super Bowl and went to the Hall of Fame.     

 

Brady had a defensive head coach who went 29-38 after Tom left.   The guy who replaced Tom is 20-29 as a starter and is currently a backup on his third team in three years. 

 

As much as I cant stand the Patriots, Brady is the GOAT and its not really debatable.   

[Alphadawg7]

15 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Montana had the greatest offensive mind maybe ever in football as his head coach.  Walsh's schemes are still winning football games today in KC, SF and LAR.    He also had the greatest WR of all time on his team.  The guy that replaced Montana won a Super Bowl and went to the Hall of Fame.     

 

Montana also played in a much harder era of football where the rules were not being rolled out yet to benefit the passing game.  Defenders could be a lot more physical not just with the QB's but with the WR's too.  And BB was a defensive genius, that also allowed him to understand the opponents defense's better than anyone as well and that impacted a LOT what they did on offense.  So don't discount BB's offensive impact either.  Brady also had arguably the greatest TE of all time on his team too.  

 

15 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Brady had a defensive head coach who went 29-38 after Tom left.   The guy who replaced Tom is 20-29 as a starter and is currently a backup on his third team in three years. 

 

This has no relevancy to who was better - it just shows who had the better or worse QB replace them.  

 

15 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

As much as I cant stand the Patriots, Brady is the GOAT and its not really debatable.   

 

Brady should be acknowledged as the GOAT - Longevity and top level success in his 40's put Tom in the drivers seat for the GOAT title.  But at the time Joe retired, he had as many SB wins (and no losses) as Tom did except Tom had multiple SB losses as well.

 

There is a difference in being the GOAT (which is a career resume title) and being the "best" QB to ever play (which is a talent/ability title).  Joe had his body break down and betray him preventing him from the same longevity as Tom, so he cant compete on the career long resume aspect of the GOAT conversation, which is where Tom clearly pulls away in the convo.  But who was really the best QB in their prime on the field?  That is a legit question and debate.

1. Retirement age - Who is the GOAT if Brady had retired the same age as Joe?  I would say Joe is probably the more popular pick as he had just as many SB rings and was undefeated in the SB with Brady having 2 losses.  And at that time, Joe was still the more widely considered GOAT.  Brady pulled away with all the incredible success he continued to have past that age and into his 40's.  
2. What would happen if Tom and Joe swapped places?  
   1. Does Tom's resume get better or worse?  
      1. I would say most likely worse both in longevity (due to the physicality) and production (due to the tougher rules).  
   2. Does Joe's resume get better or worse playing in the modern era with rules to protect QB's and open up the passing game?  
      1. I would say most likely better both in longevity (his body likely lasts longer than his did) and production (due to softer and easier passing rules

So - no disagreement that Brady has earned GOAT recognition and title because of his high level play for as long as he was able to do it - but that doesn't necessarily mean he was still the "best" QB of the two in their respective primes on a football field on any given Sunday.  That I think is very much a legitimate debate between the two.  

[Buffalo Boy]

55 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Montana had the greatest offensive mind maybe ever in football as his head coach.  Walsh's schemes are still winning football games today in KC, SF and LAR.    He also had the greatest WR of all time on his team.  The guy that replaced Montana won a Super Bowl and went to the Hall of Fame.     

 

Brady had a defensive head coach who went 29-38 after Tom left.   The guy who replaced Tom is 20-29 as a starter and is currently a backup on his third team in three years. 

 

As much as I cant stand the Patriots, Brady is the GOAT and its not really debatable.   

Playing with kid Gloves made Brady’s job immeasurably easier

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 2/9/2025 at 2:20 PM, DaVinci said:

Im saying based on the video of Brady and his analasys of his ability to read Defenses, he was Better at it than Allen in thier first five years.

What ? Allen’s first 5 seasons blow Brady’s out of the stratosphere. It’s not even close. It was not until Brady’s 8th year that he was even able to surpass 30 total touchdowns for the season. Don’t give me different “era” argument either. This was in the mid-late 2000s. If you take away Allen’s rushing stats completely, his passing numbers are just as good or better. Brady did not become elite until he is 30. I’ll die on that hill. QBs like Peyton Manning were on a different level in their early careers. 

 

[US Egg]

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

As much as I cant stand the Patriots, Brady is the GOAT and it’s not really debatable.

It really is that simple, but more humorous when the begrudgers add irrelevant caveats.  

Edited August 4 by US Egg

[Udubalum07]

As stated earlier Brady did help carry teams, but he also had years where he was mostly a game manager. He didn't come close to putting up the best numbers, but won multiple super bowls. Allen can never get away with scoring 13 points in a playoff game and coming out on top. 

 

He has to be incredible every playoff game for the team to win. Brady didn't have to do that in his early years. Remember they took Matt Cassell to an 11 and 5 record when Brady went down and at the time Cassell hadn't started a meaningful since high school(he was a backup his entire college career). That was phenomenal coaching.

[Billy Claude]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

1. Retirement age - Who is the GOAT if Brady had retired the same age as Joe?  I would say Joe is probably the more popular pick as he had just as many SB rings and was undefeated in the SB with Brady having 2 losses.  And at that time, Joe was still the more widely considered GOAT.  Brady pulled away with all the incredible success he continued to have past that age and into his 40's.  

 

I  have never understood this line of reasoning.  Why is it better to lose in an earlier round versus getting to the Super Bowl and then losing?  To me, everything else being equal, going 4 and 2 in the Super Bowl is obviously better than going 4 and 0.

 

 

Edited August 4 by Billy Claude

[Low Positive]

So someone bumped this thread and now I am being called a "homer" for not saying glowing things about Brady and Tua? What in the heck is going on around here?

[Alphadawg7]

50 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I  have never understood this line of reasoning.  Why is it better to lose in an earlier round versus getting to the Super Bowl and then losing.  To me, everything else being equal, going 4 and 2 in the Super Bowl is obviously better than going 4 and 0.

 

 

 

Its also a team sport, a QB can only control so much.  But the reality is, QB's get the most credit and the most blame - and the only games people weigh the most are the Championship games.  

 

Montana's path to the Super Bowl was a lot tougher than the paths Brady and the Pats repeatedly faced too.  And once he got there he didn't lose.  Not saying its bad Brady lost, but its just how things are weighed.  Lebron gets it held against him too how many times he got the finals and lost when compared in GOAT conversations too.  Winning in the finals elevates ones status exponentially, and losing in the finals/championship doesn't really - and when compared to other greats who didn't lose, it comes up and factors in some what, fair or not.  Look at Burrow, no one talks about how he made one SB - one which he lost with the ball in his hands - and now they just talk about can he even make the playoffs this year after missing the last 2 despite having one of the best set of weapons in the league. 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I  have never understood this line of reasoning.  Why is it better to lose in an earlier round versus getting to the Super Bowl and then losing?  To me, everything else being equal, going 4 and 2 in the Super Bowl is obviously better than going 4 and 0.

 

 

 

Brady is the GOAT. There is no argument or debate needed.