Are the initial 2024 Bills better, the same or worse than the initial 2023 Bills

[GASabresIUFan]

(R) = Rookie

(ST) - primarily a Special Teams Player

QB

2023 - Allen & Allen

2024 - Allen & Trubisky

 

RB

2023 - Cook, Harris, Murray, Gilliam (FB/ST)

2024 - Cook, Davis (R), Johnson, Gilliam (FB/ST) (Evans IR)

 

WR 

2023 - Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Sherfield, Harty

2024 - Shakir, Samuel, Coleman (R), Hollins, MVS

 

TE

2023 - Knox, Kincaid (R), Morris (ST)

2024 - Kincaid, Knox, Morris (ST)

 

OL Starters

2023 - Brown, Dawkins, Morse, Torrence (R), McGovern

2024 - Brown, Dawkins, McGovern, Torrence, D. Edwards

 

OL Backups

2023 - Van Denmark, Anderson, D. Edwards, Bates, Ifedi

2024 - Van Denmark, Anderson, Grable (R), SVPG (R)

 

Specialists

2023 - Bass, Martin, Ferguson, Harty (WR/KR)

2024 - Bass, Martin, Ferguson, Codrington (R) KR)

 

DE

2023 - Rousseau, Floyd, Epenesa, Lawson, Jonathan (Miller IR)

2024 - Rousseau, Miller, Epenesa, Smoot, Solomon (R)

 

DT

2023 - Oliver, D Jones, Phillips, Settle, Ford

2024 - Oliver, D Jones, A. Johnson, Carter (R) 

 

LB
2023 - Milano, Benard, Dobson, D.Williams (R), Matekevich (ST) - (Spector IR)

2024 - Williams, Benard, Morrow, Spector, Ulofoshio (R), Andreessen (R/ST) - (Milano IR)

 

CB

2023 - White, Benford, T Johnson, Elam, D Jackson, Neal (ST)

2024 - Douglas, Benford, T Johnson, Elam, Ingram

 

S

2023 - Hyde, Poyer, Rapp, Hamlin, Lewis (S/CB/ST)

2024 - Rapp, Hamlin, Bishop (R), M. Edwards, Lewis (S/CB/ST)

 

This is a clear movement away from older vets (Morse, White, Diggs, Hyde, Poyer, Floyd, Harris, Murray among others) to youth including 10 2024 draftees/UDFAs.  Obviously S and WR are the hot button issues for people on this board.  Even with the youth movement, I think there is a good argument that the team is just as good if not better than last year’s squad.  I’ll dissect each position group in a latter post.  Do to injuries in season in 2023 there are 16 starters returning on offense and defense including Allen, Cook, Kincaid, Shakir, Brown, Dawkins, McGovern and Torrence on Offense, and Rousseau, Oliver, D Jones, Benard, Douglas, Benford, T Johnson, and Rapp on Defense.

Edited August 28, 2024 by GASabresIUFan

[Desert Bills Fan]

For the WRs:

are

Samuel, Coleman, Shakir, Hollins, MVS

as good as

Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Sheffield, Harty 

 

I think Coleman, Shakir, Hollins, MVS are as good.

 

But Diggs > Samuel.

So unless Kincaid steps up to create success in the WR type role, Josh is gonna have a tough time equaling last years success.

[Rockinon]

Hyde and Poyer were getting pretty long in the tooth. The youth movement was necessary there. White too, though I think his injuries made it more necessary in his case. Diggs, I believe was just a matter of needing to change to a more "spread the ball around" philosophy. The Dline may be much improved with better health and new additions. Kind of excited about a possible resurgence from the defense this year.

 

We may see some growing pains out of the gate simply because of the youth movement, but I believe that the potential is there to be a better overall roster. I'm not completely sold on the offense improving, but generally optimistic that they can grow into it.

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Better at RB and if Miller is healthy probably better at DE

LB is mixed. Last year Bernard was a question mark and this year Williams is. So probably a wash.

WR is far worse. Diggs had 31 catches in the first month of last season. This group will be hard pressed to have even one guy with 15 after a month. If Samuel has to play hurt with a lingering toe issue this is the worst WR group in the NFL.

TE is looking very good. Kincaid has a legit shot at 100 receptions and Knox 40-50. If used correctly they could break record for combined receptions for a TE group. 

DT has a chance to be better as well. 

I like the top 3 CB this year over last years group. Wish McD would give Elam a chance to start. Guy makes plays. 

PK is the same person but he looks to be getting worse with every kick.

[Mikie2times]

Clearly Worse at LB, S, OL, WR

Likely Worse at DL

Clearly Better at TE

Likely Better at RB

Neutral at QB

 

It's worse to start. Might not end that way. 

[Kirby Jackson]

They are worse. I’m not sure that anyone, without the homer glasses on, can think differently. Fortunately, they haven’t played a game yet. Anything can happen with Josh Allen at QB.
 

The talent on this team though is notches below where it was. That’s pretty easy to see. They just had 1 player listed on a list of the top 100 in the NFL (the ESPN or CBS list can’t remember which). They had no one claimed showing that the back of the roster isn’t quite as strong as it has been (they had players claimed every season since 2018). That should be obvious as guys have moved up the depth chart (Edwards, Shakir, Dorian Williams, Rapp, Epenesa) & their former roles are being replaced by lesser players.

Edited August 28, 2024 by Kirby Jackson

[SCBills]

Initial 53's?

 

QB - Same

 

RB - Better

 

WR - Worse

 

TE - Better

 

OL - Same

 

DE - Worse

 

DT - Better

 

LB - Worse

 

CB - Better

 

S - Worse

 

But if we want to compare the ending 53 to our initial 53?  I'm not willing to concede WR's were better last year.. they were objectively bad last half of the season & this team has the potential to be better at DE than last year. 

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Clearly Worse at LB, S, OL, WR

Likely Worse at DL

Clearly Better at TE

Likely Better at RB

Neutral at QB

 

It's worse to start. Might not end that way. 

I have no idea how you can say "clearly worse" at OL.  It is a definite strength of the team and the depth might be the best in the league.

 

And how is the DL worse?  Losing Tim Settle and Jordan Phillips?  Carter seems to be a huge upgrade and edge seems about the same; lost Floyd (completely absent the second half of the season) but gain Von Miller a year further removed from surgery, as well as Smoot.  

[gonzo1105]

Their the same at QB

 

Better at RB

 

Worse at WR

 

Better at TE slightly because Kincaid is in his 2nd year

 

OL is a wash. Like the backups this year tho

 

DL is worse unless Miller returns to form

 

LB is worse when it comes to depth

 

CBs- Better

 

S- Worse

 

Specialists- Same

[Process]

Probably worse but they are definitely better than the Final 2023 Bills

Edited August 28, 2024 by Process

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

I'm in the watch and see crowd. It is obviously unknown at this point so no need to speculate whether they're better or worse. I'm here for the ride. 

 

 

[Mikie2times]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

I have no idea how you can say "clearly worse" at OL.  It is a definite strength of the team and the depth might be the best in the league.

 

And how is the DL worse?  Losing Tim Settle and Jordan Phillips?  Carter seems to be a huge upgrade and edge seems about the same; lost Floyd (completely absent the second half of the season) but gain Von Miller a year further removed from surgery, as well as Smoot.  

-Morse at C and McGovern at G is better than Edwards at G and McGovern at C. As I said, that could change. It was also a strength last year. 

 

-Floyd had 10.5 sacks last year. Who do we have that has gotten over 10 sacks? I'm hopeful Von and AJ will really deliver. Groot is also always in the mix for that big next step. 

 

It's certainly possible both these positions are better. At day 1 that isn't the case. 

 

 

[dpberr]

Slightly worse. 

 

1. Injuries already.
2. I think the 2024 special teams is especially fragile.  
3. Athleticism at Safety is improved, but you can't ignore the corporate knowledge that's departed. 
4. I find WR talent-wise a wash, and more dangerous from a playbook perspective, but it'll take time for the QB/WR timing to gel. 
5. Just a general impression this team - from coaches down - looks disinterested already.

Edited August 28, 2024 by dpberr

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

-Morse at C and McGovern at G is better than Edwards at G and McGovern at C. As I said, that could change. It was also a strength last year. 

 

-Floyd had 10.5 sacks last year. Who do we have that has gotten over 10 sacks? I'm hopeful Von and AJ will really deliver. Groot is also always in the mix for that big next step. 

 

It's certainly possible both these positions are better. At day 1 that isn't the case. 

 

 

There is zero evidence that Morse at C and McGovern at G are better than what we have this year.  No reason at all to believe that is the case.  And as I said, Floyd was a complete non-factor during the second half of the season, not unlike Diggs.

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

There is zero evidence that Morse at C and McGovern at G are better than what we have this year.  No reason at all to believe that is the case.  And as I said, Floyd was a complete non-factor during the second half of the season, not unlike Diggs.

To start the year Morse is better than Edwards. He has more accolades, more years as a starter, more years as a high end starter. Why would the burden be on me to say Morse is better than Edwards when we barely know what the heck we are getting from Edwards?

 

Floyd had 10.5 sacks last year, so I assume at some point in the year he was a factor. Just because its convenient to subtract that in your mind doesn't make it any less real. 

Edited August 28, 2024 by Mikie2times

[MJS]

Better: RB, CB, TE, DT

Same: OL, QB

Worse: LB, DE, S, WR

 

I think the OL is roughly similar, but I think it is good and we have a great pipeline of young olinemen developing. Oline is going to be a strength for years. WR is worse merely because we don't have a #1, but by the end Diggs, Davis, Harty, and Sherfield objectively SUCKED. So, the change needed to happen. I'm glad we rebuilt there, but it will require further investment for sure.

 

A lot hinges on Rousseau's ability to put it all together, stay healthy, and be the dominant force that he is capable of. Also, can Dorian Williams fill in for Milano and be better in coverage? He is great when he plays downhill, but his coverage instincts are poor. And will the safeties be at least fine? Luckily, McDermott always gets the most out of the secondary, so I think they will be fine eventually. Lastly, can the receivers get separation and make plays, and can Kincaid take the next step and be an elite TE?

 

There are so many questions this year. Some of those questions will be answered positively, and probably some negatively.

Edited August 28, 2024 by MJS

[mannc]

6 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

To start the year Morse is better than Edwards. He has more accolades, more years as a starter, more years as a high end starter. Why would the burden be on me to say Morse is better than Edwards when we barely know what the heck we are getting from Edwards?

 

Floyd had 10.5 sacks last year, so I assume at some point in the year he was a factor. Just because its convenient to subtract that in your mind doesn't make it any less real. 

The Bills let Morse walk.  They could easily have kept him but they chose to go with Edwards and McGovern.  It was very intentional and there is no reason to believe it was the wrong decision.

[MJS]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

The Bills let Morse walk.  They could easily have kept him but they chose to go with Edwards and McGovern.  It was very intentional and there is no reason to believe it was the wrong decision.

They even traded away Ryan Bates. They made a conscious decision to go this route, and it wasn't because they felt they were getting worse. Still, we have to see how it goes.

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

The Bills let Morse walk.  They could easily have kept him but they chose to go with Edwards and McGovern.  It was very intentional and there is no reason to believe it was the wrong decision.

Since we let a player walk he must not be as good as his replacement is not accurate. He got way more than Edwards on the open market. We didn't want to sign an aging center in cap hell. The line is likely going to be a strength as it was last year. If I was debating on why it is better this year I would focus on Torrence developing more not Edwards being + against Morse. That's just not accurate as of now. Perhaps Morse regresses more and Edwards does great. Maybe the line gels more. A lot of unknowns, regardless it's not overly significant if I think the OL and DL is a smidgen worse. Either group could go either way and we have other groups that are much more obvious for the sake of this conversation. Note if we aren't aligned on this, all good on my end. 

[oldmanfan]

QB:  same

RB:  better, Davis improves the room

TE:  better, Kincaid has more experience and they’ll run a lot of 12 formation

WR:  even, depth is better and Diggs was declining in Brady’s offense

OL:  same, better protection up the middle with McGovern vs. Morse but Morsexwas better at pulling and run blocking

 

DE:  better, Miller coming back, and Solomon I think will have an impact

DT:  better with Jones back and better depth

LB:  same to a bit worse with Milano out

CB:  better, better depth with Elam and Ingram improving

S:  same lose smarts without Poyer and Hyde but gain in athleticism

K:  worse, Bass has a mental thing IMHO

P: same 

 

Overall, the team is as good as last year and perhaps a bit better.  Comes down to Brady and getting his offensive plans going.