Harrison Butker…oy vey…what a commencement “speech”

[ImpactCorey]

8 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

May be true but the same could be said of putting a child through unnecessary trials in their social life. 

 

You guys act as if this is a concrete subject, as if you either have gender dysphoria or not. There is no middle ground with you in which someone may feel confused but ultimately affirm their born gender but in the meantime they have a significant pressure from the certain groups that this makes them "unique" and "special" and "heroic" and who wouldn't want to feel those things? Then how dumb do they feel when they ultimately change their mind? Maybe some cant bear to change their mind? 

 

I'm not sure who you are lumping me in with when you say "you guys".  Trust me.  I am well-aware of and versed in the nuance.  I will gladly address the nuance.  Did Butker address it with his absolute remark about the deadly sin of "Pride"?

 

I'd bet my life savings that Butker was not referring to the risk of suicide when he made that statement.

Edited May 17 by ImpactCorey

[ExiledInIllinois]

11 minutes ago, T&C said:

It was at a Catholic school with a speech delivered by a Catholic. 

AND eventually denounced by Catholic nuns.  The sisters of Mount St. Scholastica.

 

I think they are better at Catholic teaching, know more then you. 😆 

 

 

[T&C]

5 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

AND eventually denounced by Catholic nuns.  The sisters of Mount St. Scholastica.

 

I think they are better at Catholic teaching, know more then you. 😆 

 

 

Where is Sister Mary Elephant when you need her....

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Do you recognize any limits to acceptance?

 

For instance:

 

I have no ill will at all toward transexuals. Now, do I want them to use bathrooms with my daughters and/or other women? No, I do not.

Do I want them to compete in women's sports? Absolutely not. It took women decades if not centuries to be properly recognized wrt sports. Now, men are trying to take back sports from women, dominate them, and sometimes injure women in the process. 

 

In your world, does this make me a "hater?"

 

 

What about the LG and B. Would you not want gay men using bathrooms with your son?

[Steptide]

I have zero issue with anything he said. I have catholic friends who have 9 kids while the wife is a stay at home mom and the dad works to support the family. This isn't terribly uncommon with Catholics. 2nd, he never said woman have to be home makers. The first thing he said was how many of them will have amazing careers, promotions etc. I can't believe we live in a world where celebrating the nuclear family is negative. I don't expect every woman to be stay at home moms and cook and clean all day, but my wife would kill for that opportunity. We both work full time and raise our family, but if she had the choice, she'd absolutely be at home. That doesn't mean all woman want that, but alot do. The fact that people are outraged over this really blows my mind 

[oldmanfan]

23 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Where? Ive read his speech a dozen times. Its like you guys hear what you want to hear. It does not say you cant be both. anywhere. It does say one is more rewarding or desired. However he also says the same of a husband and father so...

He speaks of vocation as being a wife and mother.  Or husband and father.

[oldmanfan]

14 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I have zero issue with anything he said. I have catholic friends who have 9 kids while the wife is a stay at home mom and the dad works to support the family. This isn't terribly uncommon with Catholics. 2nd, he never said woman have to be home makers. The first thing he said was how many of them will have amazing careers, promotions etc. I can't believe we live in a world where celebrating the nuclear family is negative. I don't expect every woman to be stay at home moms and cook and clean all day, but my wife would kill for that opportunity. We both work full time and raise our family, but if she had the choice, she'd absolutely be at home. That doesn't mean all woman want that, but alot do. The fact that people are outraged over this really blows my mind 

As a Catholic did you have issues with him criticizing the leadership of the church?

[jkeerie]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

mods, please move to OTW (or annihilate) if considered more appropriate

 

For those who missed it, Chiefs kicker Harrison Butker was invited to give the commencement address at Catholic Benedictine College in Atchinson, KS.

Here's the transcript:

https://www.ncregister.com/news/harrison-butker-speech-at-benedictine

 

He's entitled to his views, although he seems to have crafted it on the "if I haven't offended you yet, just wait a minute" principle. 

https://apnews.com/article/kansas-city-chiefs-harrison-butker-e00f6ee45955c99ef1e809ec447239e0

The NFL has now disavowed his comments

https://wapo.st/4dIi9MK (gift article, should work)

"The NFL said Thursday that it disagrees with the views expressed by Kansas City Chiefs kicker Harrison Butker during a commencement address last weekend, calling itself “steadfast” in its commitment to inclusion." 

 

 “Harrison Butker gave a speech in his personal capacity,” Jonathan Beane, the NFL’s chief diversity and inclusion officer, said in a written statement provided to The Washington Post and other media outlets. “His views are not those of the NFL as an organization. The NFL is steadfast in our commitment to inclusion, which only makes our league stronger.”

 

Personally, when you're addressing an audience of young women who just worked hard to earn a degree, I think the minimum the commencement speaker could do is to respect that effort.  "Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world"  - how disparaging of their efforts and hard work! 

 

All I can say is I hope his kicks next season follow his views, and go Wide Right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I was more taken aback by his not so veiled reference to Israel and the Jews killing Jesus.  I mean shades of Mary Kay Place's sitcom character years ago when she refers to the Jews as "the people what killed our Lord." 😄

[Bill from NYC]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What about the LG and B. Would you not want gay men using bathrooms with your son?

That is different. They are not living under a false premise so no, it would not bother me. There have been instances of bad acts involving men pretending to be women. I even read a story about an inmate who "identified" as a woman impregnating female prisoners. 

 

If I claim to "identify" as a German Shepherd, will you send me a box of dog treats?

[ImpactCorey]

7 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

That is different. They are not living under a false premise so no, it would not bother me. There have been instances of bad acts involving men pretending to be women. I even read a story about an inmate who "identified" as a woman impregnating female prisoners. 

 

If I claim to "identify" as a German Shepherd, will you send me a box of dog treats?

Bad actors should not vilify an entire group.  Sticking with your overly simplistic dog analogy, because some Pit Bulls have been trained to be dangerous and there are many reports of them attacking children, should we wipe out the existence of Pit Bulls?

Edited May 17 by ImpactCorey

[boyst]

this guy ok.

butker not ok.

[Bill from NYC]

1 minute ago, ImpactCorey said:

Bad actors should not vilify an entire group.  Sticking with your overly simplistic dog analogy, because some Pit Bulls have been trained to be dangerous and there are many reports of them attacking children, should we wipe out the existence of Pit Bulls?

Not necessarily but these are dangerous animals, and I think that owners should be held civily, or even at times criminally responsible for their attacks on innocent people.

 

And btw, YOU not I made the analogy to dogs and transexuals.

[ImpactCorey]

1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said:

Not necessarily but these are dangerous animals, and I think that owners should be held civily, or even at times criminally responsible for their attacks on innocent people.

 

And btw, YOU not I made the analogy to dogs and transexuals.

Bravo.  That is some next level gaslighting.  Only 2 posts up can be proved otherwise.  Ok.

[jkeerie]

31 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I have zero issue with anything he said. I have catholic friends who have 9 kids while the wife is a stay at home mom and the dad works to support the family. This isn't terribly uncommon with Catholics. 2nd, he never said woman have to be home makers. The first thing he said was how many of them will have amazing careers, promotions etc. I can't believe we live in a world where celebrating the nuclear family is negative. I don't expect every woman to be stay at home moms and cook and clean all day, but my wife would kill for that opportunity. We both work full time and raise our family, but if she had the choice, she'd absolutely be at home. That doesn't mean all woman want that, but alot do. The fact that people are outraged over this really blows my mind 

I agree he is entitled to his opinion.  I disagree with your statement about living in a "world where celebrating the nuclear family is negative."  I don't see that.  However, what I do see is a movement within this country to take steps backward when it comes to the rights of women and minorities.  I think that has created a hyper-sensitivity when we hear rhetoric that even hints of supporting that.  It's like if you took the Army's slogan, "Be All You Can Be" but added the addendum, "By the way, all you can be is...."  (fill in the blank).

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

You think empathizing w the disenfranchised is 'emotionally soft' lol

 

wager your definition of preparedness for life is significantly narrower than average

 

I haven't read a word of it, but if anyone that went to, as someone pointed out, a $250k college, then it's also pretty unlikely that they're disenfranchised. 

 

Besides, unless you know someone, then your speculating.  If you do, then reference that person.  

 

Good to know that you have a handle on the world's morality.  There's always another position as God open.  

 

Honestly, so many people have too much free time on their hands 

 

 

[DrW]

1 hour ago, What a Tuel said:

 

 

Seriously though, why is it that a woman serving her family as a mother and wife is somehow rooted in misogyny but going to serve a corporate overlord is a successful achievement? I'd argue the same for men. Men shouldnt be ashamed to be a stay at home dad if the wife makes sufficient income. Serve your family to the best of your ability, both men and women.

 

Agreed. But that is not what Butker said or meant. He is pretty clear about his ideas of gender roles.

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

That is different. They are not living under a false premise so no, it would not bother me. There have been instances of bad acts involving men pretending to be women. I even read a story about an inmate who "identified" as a woman impregnating female prisoners. 

 

 

There are some awful cases, no doubt. But there is, despite multiple studies, no evidence that trans people commit sexual offences at a higher rate than cis gendered people. There is, however, evidence that they are four times more likely to be victims of sexual offences. 

[What a Tuel]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

He speaks of vocation as being a wife and mother.  Or husband and father.

 

You claimed he said they have to be mutually exclusive. I asked where he said that. Here is a list of his speech for reference. He does not say you must do one or the other or even that you have to do both. He said that what they might most look forward to is being a mother and wife. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesfarrell/2024/05/15/heres-harrison-butkers-controversial-commencement-speech-in-full/?sh=1e645f067937

Edited May 17 by What a Tuel

[DrW]

1 hour ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Where? Ive read his speech a dozen times. Its like you guys hear what you want to hear. It does not say you cant be both. anywhere. It does say one is more rewarding or desired. However he also says the same of a husband and father so...

 

Well, I bite. Take this line from his speech:

"For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you."

 

According to my daughter with a minor in rhetoric (she can talk the paint off the wall), now you would expect one or more examples. Butker continues:

"How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career?" 

 

At least to me, that makes clear what he thinks of women who have a career (whether with or without children).

 

[oldmanfan]

33 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

You claimed he said they have to be mutually exclusive. I asked where he said that. Here is a list of his speech for reference. He does not say you must do one or the other or even that you have to do both. He said that what they might most look forward to is being a mother and wife. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesfarrell/2024/05/15/heres-harrison-butkers-controversial-commencement-speech-in-full/?sh=1e645f067937

I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.

I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. 
 

He talks of women having diabolical lies told to them, immediately after which he speaks of some that MAY go on to careers but that the majority are MOST EXCITED about marriage and children.  Then says his wife’s life TRULY STARTED when she began linking her VOCATION as a wife and mother.

 

He did not use the words mutually exclusive but makes it as clear as day that women should aspire to be wives and mothers.  As in his wife had no life before that.  And then in an even more inflammatory statement explaining his comments he indicated he aspired to a time when women did not have thoughts.  
 

His feelings on the role of women is quite clear.  

Edited May 17 by oldmanfan