Tim Graham article on Kim Pegula and Bills ownership

[SoCal Deek]

19 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Most people don't seem to have all that much disdain for "monetarily successful people" as you put it, the disdain starts to enter when some of that wealth is driven by money of others, like taxpayer money, that assists in creating that "monetary success." 

 

Can us as smaller business people put that plank of taxpayer subsidy in our eyes?

 

It also doesn't win people over when they talk out of both sides of their mouths.  eg. the "Pegula Family Values" vs. fan interest as an example.  Feigned altruism in short, disingenuous.  

 

Not trying to argue, but those are issues.  

 

 

With all due respect, one person’s taxpayer subsidy is another person’s write off, rent control, student debt forgiveness. etc. 

 

EVERYONE is simply trying to get their best deal on everything they buy, sell, or own. Everyone!

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

With all due respect, one person’s taxpayer subsidy is another person’s write off, rent control, student debt forgiveness. etc. 

 

EVERYONE is simply trying to get their best deal on everything they buy, sell, or own. Everyone!

 

Most people don't get $1B tax subsidies. 

 

Either way, just pointing that out.  

 

Hence as you put it, some disdain.  

 

The government is corrupt as all hell.  Money flies in every direction, the people that get most of it are at the top somewhere.  

 

 

Edited May 3 by PBF81

[Mango]

On 5/1/2024 at 9:45 PM, SWATeam said:

We should be terrified of Beane and McDermott getting fired, not championing it like many here.  God only knows the hires this ownership would make.

 

100%. I have been critical of McBeane at times but I think they keep this thing afloat. 

I am hoping Lindy can wedge himself between Terry and the Sabres to do the same. 

[Mango]

On 5/2/2024 at 6:07 AM, nucci said:

How can the same owner run one of the best franchises in football while at the same time run one of the worst in hockey? 

 

It has been rumored that McBeane both have clauses in their contract that give them final say on roster decisions/no-meddling clauses. I believe that when the PSE article dropped a few years ago it was said that McBeane work to keep OBD away from all things Sabres. Around that time there was some talk of Danny Briere coming in as President of Hockey Ops but he wanted the same clause as McBeane and Terry wouldn't provide it. 

Don't shoot the messenger. I don't have proof, but those are some of the things that have been speculated/rumored. There is probably some truth and some exaggeration. It does provide a pretty clean, easy, and believable answer as to why each franchise seems so different. 

[nucci]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

It has been rumored that McBeane both have clauses in their contract that give them final say on roster decisions/no-meddling clauses. I believe that when the PSE article dropped a few years ago it was said that McBeane work to keep OBD away from all things Sabres. Around that time there was some talk of Danny Briere coming in as President of Hockey Ops but he wanted the same clause as McBeane and Terry wouldn't provide it. 

Don't shoot the messenger. I don't have proof, but those are some of the things that have been speculated/rumored. There is probably some truth and some exaggeration. It does provide a pretty clean, easy, and believable answer as to why each franchise seems so different. 

My question was somewhat rhetorical but I have heard and read something similar. 

[May Day 10]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

It has been rumored that McBeane both have clauses in their contract that give them final say on roster decisions/no-meddling clauses. I believe that when the PSE article dropped a few years ago it was said that McBeane work to keep OBD away from all things Sabres. Around that time there was some talk of Danny Briere coming in as President of Hockey Ops but he wanted the same clause as McBeane and Terry wouldn't provide it. 

Don't shoot the messenger. I don't have proof, but those are some of the things that have been speculated/rumored. There is probably some truth and some exaggeration. It does provide a pretty clean, easy, and believable answer as to why each franchise seems so different. 

 

There was also an article not too long ago that there were talks to bring in Doug McLean, but it was snuffed out.

 

IMO it is much easier to build a good NFL team.  You need a good CEO/coach, a savvy GM in synergy with the coach, and need to hit at a good QB.  You can turn over a roster and cap situation in 2 years time.

 

The NHL has extensive scouting, drafting, and development that requires several aspects of the organization being run well.  Building an NHL team is also a lot more involved and intricate than an NFL team.  Bad decisions with the cap can doom the NHL squad for many years.  The President/GM is the CEO of the team in the NHL, while the head coach typically is in the NFL.  

 

The Sabres have had a general power vacuum dating back to John Muckler.  They have not had a strong GM/president since then.  

 

They hit on McDermott.  He is a good and thorough manager.  I think he has a strong enough personality to hear what Pegula has to say, but do what he things is right anyways.  Beane is cut from the same cloth.  They have earned plenty of trust with Pegula.  

[vincec]

54 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

With all due respect, one person’s taxpayer subsidy is another person’s write off, rent control, student debt forgiveness. etc. 

 

EVERYONE is simply trying to get their best deal on everything they buy, sell, or own. Everyone!

This is true, but the relative power of each person is different. The Pegulas are already super rich, and the power that comes with that enables them to get hundreds of millions in additional subsides. Other people have to be contented with far less and question why the Pegulas are entitled to su much more than them. Maybe it’s the way of the world, but the resentment is understandable.

Edited May 3 by vincec

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The level of disdain on here for monetarily successful people is beyond stunning. As it’s written…remove the plank from your own eye before dealing with the speck in your neighbor’s. To the vast, vast majority of people in the world YOU are wealthy! Having money, whether a lot or a little, neither makes you good or evil. 

 

 

link?

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

There was also an article not too long ago that there were talks to bring in Doug McLean, but it was snuffed out.

 

IMO it is much easier to build a good NFL team.  You need a good CEO/coach, a savvy GM in synergy with the coach, and need to hit at a good QB.  You can turn over a roster and cap situation in 2 years time.

 

The NHL has extensive scouting, drafting, and development that requires several aspects of the organization being run well.  Building an NHL team is also a lot more involved and intricate than an NFL team.  Bad decisions with the cap can doom the NHL squad for many years.  The President/GM is the CEO of the team in the NHL, while the head coach typically is in the NFL.  

 

The Sabres have had a general power vacuum dating back to John Muckler.  They have not had a strong GM/president since then.  

 

They hit on McDermott.  He is a good and thorough manager.  I think he has a strong enough personality to hear what Pegula has to say, but do what he things is right anyways.  Beane is cut from the same cloth.  They have earned plenty of trust with Pegula.  

 

I think a big part of the Bills success is that McBeane have a 10 year working relationship before coming to the Bills. Terry's weird flat management structure allows him to work with the GM alone and the HC alone. When you bring in relative strangers it means he basically pulls all the strings. But when you bring in two people with that much professional history it makes Terry the third wheel on a bicycle built for 2. 

It is like the difference between brining in Mike Tomlin with Omar Khan vs. Andy Reid with Eric Decosta. Both pairings are pretty good, Reid/DeCosta are better individually but one relationship will be much easier to wedge than the other. 

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The level of disdain on here for monetarily successful people is beyond stunning. As it’s written…remove the plank from your own eye before dealing with the speck in your neighbor’s. To the vast, vast majority of people in the world YOU are wealthy! Having money, whether a lot or a little, neither makes you good or evil. 

I don't see anything about "monetarily successful people". Nobody is hating on a dentist with an outdoor kitchen.

There's never been, and never will be a billionaire who's also a good person.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, papazoid said:

i don't get all the negativity

 

god forbid if your spouse became medically incapacitated.......would you want anyone other than yourself to be placed as guardian ?

 

the NFL requires succession planning. with kim unable to fulfill those duties, terry's daughter Laura was the most qualified based on education and job experience, nothing untoward there.

 

as far as the son in law goes.....maybe he wasn't very good at his job and deserved to be fired. don't shed any tears for him, i'm sure he will be very well off.

 

maybe the reason terry hasn't spoken to the press in quite awhile is he knows they will ask about Kim. i know if that was me and forced to address my wife's condition, i wouldn't get two words out without getting all emotional.

 

it doesnt have to be all sinister.

 

so sad, thoughts and prayers to that family

 

 

well, that's obviously not what this story is about--I think you understand this.

 

And sure, maybe his son in law was so bad at his job that Terry waited until Jessica wrote that piece about her mother's current condition (for which we rightly thanked her) before he fired the guy (and subsequently gave a share to another daughter).  That makes total sense!!  He was that bad---and the timing of Terry finally realizing this was just coincidence!!

 

 

Also, the NFL does not require a succession plan per say:  "The NFL requires families that control teams to collectively own 30% of the club, with the controlling owner share smaller, with the minimum level determined by the number of years of ownership"

 

None of that matters anyway, as succession of Bills ownership is currently not an issue as Pegula seems healthy and just took over his wife's half of the team.  So, over the past year or so, he has become president of the Bills and Sabres, and nearly 100% owner of both teams. That's not a guy thinking about succession....

 

[SoCal Deek]

29 minutes ago, vincec said:

This is true, but the relative power of each person is different. The Pegulas are already super rich, and the power that comes with that enables them to get hundreds of millions in additional subsides. Other people have to be contented with far less and question why the Pegulas are entitled to su much more than them. Maybe it’s the way of the world, but the resentment is understandable.

The resentment is improperly targeted. Don’t blame the Pegulas for taking the subsidy. If you absolutely must blame someone, then blame state officials for offering it. And I’m NOT saying that to be political. It crosses BOTH party lines. 

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

well, that's obviously not what this story is about--I think you understand this.

 

And sure, maybe his son in law was so bad at his job that Terry waited until Jessica wrote that piece about her mother's current condition (for which we rightly thanked her) before he fired the guy (and subsequently gave a share to another daughter).  That makes total sense!!  He was that bad---and the timing of Terry finally realizing this was just coincidence!!

 

 

Also, the NFL does not require a succession plan per say:  "The NFL requires families that control teams to collectively own 30% of the club, with the controlling owner share smaller, with the minimum level determined by the number of years of ownership"

 

None of that matters anyway, as succession of Bills ownership is currently not an issue as Pegula seems healthy and just took over his wife's half of the team.  So, over the past year or so, he has become president of the Bills and Sabres, and nearly 100% owner of both teams. That's not a guy thinking about succession....

 

Not that I really care who owns the team, but the guy is 73 years old. At that age you could be in good health an hour ago and drop dead and breakfast. It wouldn't be a shock unless you saw it happen. If you don't have a succession plan/will as a 73 y/o Billionaire, you're a moron.

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Not that I really care who owns the team, but the guy is 73 years old. At that age you could be in good health an hour ago and drop dead and breakfast. It wouldn't be a shock unless you saw it happen. If you don't have a succession plan/will as a 73 y/o Billionaire, you're a moron.

But remember kids, being a billionaire doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re not also a moron. 😂

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

But remember kids, being a billionaire doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re not also a moron. 😂

We should have all seen plenty of evidence of this over the years.

[Mango]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

well, that's obviously not what this story is about--I think you understand this.

 

And sure, maybe his son in law was so bad at his job that Terry waited until Jessica wrote that piece about her mother's current condition (for which we rightly thanked her) before he fired the guy (and subsequently gave a share to another daughter).  That makes total sense!!  He was that bad---and the timing of Terry finally realizing this was just coincidence!!

 

 

Also, the NFL does not require a succession plan per say:  "The NFL requires families that control teams to collectively own 30% of the club, with the controlling owner share smaller, with the minimum level determined by the number of years of ownership"

 

None of that matters anyway, as succession of Bills ownership is currently not an issue as Pegula seems healthy and just took over his wife's half of the team.  So, over the past year or so, he has become president of the Bills and Sabres, and nearly 100% owner of both teams. That's not a guy thinking about succession....

 

 

 

While I agree with a bit of your take Graham mentioned the below. It seems as though teams are required to submit their succession plan yearly. 

 

Quote

"Each May, teams are required to file an updated succession plan that must be approved according to established league guidelines. An NFL source who has been involved in succession planning says to be compliant teams are required to designate a successor with a controlling interest, an effort to make any transition smoother and curtail potential family infighting."

 

[Mr. WEO]

14 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The resentment is improperly targeted. Don’t blame the Pegulas for taking the subsidy. If you absolutely must blame someone, then blame state officials for offering it. And I’m NOT saying that to be political. It crosses BOTH party lines. 

 

Blame politicians for being craven and feckless?  Ok...done, now what?  Bills ownership could have chosen not to threaten to move their beloved Buffalo Bills if no stadium deal was forthcoming.

 

12 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Not that I really care who owns the team, but the guy is 73 years old. At that age you could be in good health an hour ago and drop dead and breakfast. It wouldn't be a shock unless you saw it happen. If you don't have a succession plan/will as a 73 y/o Billionaire, you're a moron.

 

The Bills previous owner would live another 22 years beyond 73...

 

Also, wee aren;t talking about estate planning/wills to determine the succession of his billions--of which Pegula certainly long ago began such a process and I'm sure it's up to date.

 

We are talking his  consolidation of ownership to himself (by taking control of Kim's share), with a sliver going to the daughter who is not Kim's child. 

 

6 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

We should have all seen plenty of evidence of this over the years.

 

Sabres: 2011-current.

9 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

 

While I agree with a bit of your take Graham mentioned the below. It seems as though teams are required to submit their succession plan yearly. 

 

 

 

It's a reiteration of the 30% policy.  The owners have to approve any changes in succession.

[Mr. WEO]

On 5/1/2024 at 7:28 PM, LeGOATski said:

I doubt John Wawrow has any actual insight.

 

he's still trying to figure out why Howard Milstein hasn't bought the Bills yet, what with all that property he bought around Niagara Falls...

 

lol

[BigDingus]

I've seen a lot of heartless & nasty comments coming from Bills fans on social media under Kim Pegula articles, and it makes me wish we could pass them off as Fins fans...

[Beck Water]

On 5/1/2024 at 7:07 PM, thewookie1 said:

Frankly this could be nothing more than if Terry dropped dead, Jessica, being a pro tennis player, wouldn’t need to quit to run a football team.

 

Plus the NFL probably would feel good about the possibility of an owner as young as Jessica taking over.

 

Laura Pegula is 41 - not exactly a fossil.

 

If I were guessing, my guess would be that the kids from the 1st marriage kept their distance from the Bills, regardless of interest, while the 2nd wife was the Face of the Front Office, and she not unnaturally probably wanted her kids to follow in her footsteps.

 

Now that the 2nd wife is out of the picture, the kids from the 1st marriage may be saying "hey - we were here first, we have priority over your 3rd born who is off playing high level tennis, not grinding in your businesses as we've been doing"