I have a problem with Cooper Dejean type players

[Mr. WEO]

you want to speak to his manager?

[mrags]

  On 4/23/2024 at 5:28 PM, BullBuchanan said:

 

Minkah Fitzpatrick? Tyrann Mathieu?

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Well. Mathieu was a 3rd rd pick. 
 

both were also considered safeties in the nfl. Which is what they are. Fitzpatrick even asked to be traded by Miami because he was out of position and went to the Steelers and haven’t looked back from the safety position since. which is also fine, but in reality if the Bills take a S in the first round with the other needs we have I think it’s a HUGE MISTAKE, and I’m pretty sure most would agree. 
 

im not saying there is anything wrong with Dejean. But I think it’s apparent that it’s not a guarantee what position he is best suited for in the NFL. And using a first rd pick on a guy that’s not considered one of the best defenders in football like both Mathieu and Fitzpatrick were coming out of college, would be a huge disappointment. 

[H2o]

  On 4/23/2024 at 6:51 PM, mrags said:

Well. Mathieu was a 3rd rd pick.

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Only because of his off-the-field stuff. He was heralded as a potential 1st Rounder prior to. 

[mrags]

  On 4/23/2024 at 6:54 PM, H2o said:

Only because of his off-the-field stuff. He was heralded as a potential 1st Rounder prior to. 

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While I generally agree with you and remember that. But 10+ years ago is rough to remember so I looked it up and saw this on his Wiki page

 

“Prior to the 2012 season, Mathieu was ranked as the third best cornerback prospect in the upcoming 2013 NFL draft by NFL analyst Chad Reuter. On November 29, 2012, Mathieu stated his intentions to enter the 2013 NFL Draft.[24] Mathieu attended the NFL Combine and completed all of the combine and positional drills. On March 28, 2013, Mathieu attended LSU's pro day, but chose to stand on his combine numbers and only performed positional drills.[25] He was projected to be a second or third round pick by the majority of NFL draft experts and scouts. At the conclusion of the pre-draft process, Mathieu was ranked as the tenth best cornerback prospect in the draft by DraftScout.com“

 

but that’s besides the point. Because I’m fully remembering him being more worthy of a possible 1st rd pick. I remember I wanted him (not in the 1st rd). But the facts are still out there that both of these guys were considered sure high picks (if not for off field issues), not some tweeners that don’t have a position. Mathieu is another one that got drafted and never changed positions from Safety after entering the league. He’s been on multiple teams and still continues to be a S. And I would argue there isn’t a S in this draft that is worthy of a first rd pick

[Andrew Son]

This is one of the handful of defensive players I'd be fine with being our 1st round pick.  He'd be a star in our scheme and an elite return man.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

I'm starting to want this dude in Round 1 just because of the divisive discourse that will ensue

[BillsShredder83]

  On 4/23/2024 at 3:56 PM, 947 said:

Tweeners who don't fit a singular position do usually bust, but there have been some successes.

 

Brian Urlacher played Safety-LB hybrid & returned kicks at New Mexico, he was a stud at MLB from day 1 in the NFL.

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parsons kinda fits this mold.  although i agree with the overall point

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

  On 4/23/2024 at 4:18 PM, mrags said:

 

Well. I think the difference is that Dejean is listed as a CB in college (not every year but in 2023 he was) and we’re talking about him moving around and being a tweener at multiple positions in the NFL. Where as Urlacher was the tweener in college and he played generally LB in the nfl (other than his first season). 
 

my point is this, in the first round you should be getting a guy that you think is going to be a solid starter at a specific position of need in your team. Not a Swiss Army knife that isn’t great at anything but able to do 3-4 different positions. To me, this kid looks like a go between of a safety and a CB, and will excel at special teams. I don’t see him as much more than a role player. Which is fine, but not worthy of a wasted #1 pick. 
 

And for the record, bringing up a guy like Urlacher being drafted 24 years ago would be like anyone bringing up Len Dawson being one of the best ever. Completely different times. The game has changed. Not even in the same argument. 

 

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Urlacher would absolutely dominate in today’s NFL probably more so than he did during his reign in the mid 2000s. He fits the mould perfectly at what a MLB should be in this day and age. A great ball player is a great ball player. DJ has some of the best instincts I’ve seen from this draft class and the only reason he’s getting pidgeon-holed is because of his race. Lots of players change positions coming into the NFL, but I still believe this guy could be a legit corner. Aaron Donald can play every position on the D-line…same with Zack Martin on the offensive side so technically they are Swiss Army knives as well. Doesn’t make them any less dominant. 

[Low Positive]

  On 4/23/2024 at 8:45 PM, HomeskillitMoorman said:

I'm starting to want this dude in Round 1 just because of the divisive discourse that will ensue

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Unless the Bills trade up for MHJ or Nabers, half of this board will hate the pick and instantly declare that they are no longer fans of the team. And even if they do trade up, some on here will be mad that they gave up too much. It really doesn't matter who it is, at least 50% of TBDers will think that they could have done a better job than Beane. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

  On 4/23/2024 at 10:05 PM, Low Positive said:

Unless the Bills trade up for MHJ or Nabers, half of this board will hate the pick and instantly declare that they are no longer fans of the team. And even if they do trade up, some on here will be mad that they gave up too much. It really doesn't matter who it is, at least 50% of TBDers will think that they could have done a better job than Beane. 

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It'll be different if it's a WR though. If it's a defensive player, this place is gonna be fun on Thursday. 

[Chaos]

  On 4/23/2024 at 4:34 PM, Brandon said:

 

No,  I'm not joking at all.  I don't think most NFL teams are going to be guilty of it,  but outside of that,  a lot of people are going to take one look at a white guy playing CB in college and immediately assume that he should move to safety in the NFL.   Maybe if he'd posted some pedestrian numbers at his pro day.  Instead,  it was borderline freakish,  especially for a guy one month clear off a broken leg.  

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NFL will be a racist as the next guy when reviewing CBs. 

[bigK14094]

  On 4/23/2024 at 3:38 PM, Brandon said:

I don't think he's a hybrid player.  He's a zone CB with good size,  and given his pro day testing,  looks like an athletic freak.  If he doesn't make it at CB,  then you move him to safety,  but I'd give him his first shot at CB. 

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I saw Bean react to a question about this guy.  This guy is definitely in play at 28.  And, we know McD's focus on drafting DB's high.

[Chaos]

  On 4/23/2024 at 10:05 PM, Low Positive said:

Unless the Bills trade up for MHJ or Nabers, half of this board will hate the pick and instantly declare that they are no longer fans of the team. And even if they do trade up, some on here will be mad that they gave up too much. It really doesn't matter who it is, at least 50% of TBDers will think that they could have done a better job than Beane. 

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Aside from Josh Allen, TBD consensus has been probably about as good as Beane. 

[bigK14094]

  On 4/23/2024 at 3:57 PM, Brandon said:

 

They're projecting a move to safety primarily because he's a white guy.  Non-factor,  IMO. 

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Well, I can't tell from what I have seen wrt his race.

[Warriorspikes51]

Maybe the guy becomes great…

 

but IMO it would be a horrific use of a premium draft pick.

 

I would much rather try to sign Justin Simmons this summer or draft a Safety in Round 4 or 5 that can compete
 

or if you project him as a corner…we are OK there for this season.  

Edited April 23, 2024 by Warriorspikes51

[Maine-iac]

Aaron Williams?  Bills second round pick at corner.  Eventually was our starting safety.  

[Low Positive]

  On 4/23/2024 at 10:25 PM, Chaos said:

Aside from Josh Allen, TBD consensus has been probably about as good as Beane. 

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Terell Bernard? James Cook? Christian Benford? Half this board hated the Milano pick in the 5th, FFS.

 

[BullBuchanan]

  On 4/23/2024 at 6:51 PM, mrags said:

Well. Mathieu was a 3rd rd pick. 
 

both were also considered safeties in the nfl. Which is what they are. Fitzpatrick even asked to be traded by Miami because he was out of position and went to the Steelers and haven’t looked back from the safety position since. which is also fine, but in reality if the Bills take a S in the first round with the other needs we have I think it’s a HUGE MISTAKE, and I’m pretty sure most would agree. 
 

im not saying there is anything wrong with Dejean. But I think it’s apparent that it’s not a guarantee what position he is best suited for in the NFL. And using a first rd pick on a guy that’s not considered one of the best defenders in football like both Mathieu and Fitzpatrick were coming out of college, would be a huge disappointment. 

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Why would most agree with taking a safety in the first round being a terrible decision if an elite prospect is there? We know from firsthand experience that Rapp is not a starting caliber Safety, and Mike Edwards has been atrocious throughout his career. You may not care about it much in April, but when Mahomes is burning us deep in January, you'll sure act surprised and blame the player when the GM and fans in the know knew full well they weren't up to the task.

We have three primary needs: Safety(x2), DE and WR. In a deep WR draft, it's more likely we can get good talent later than a starting caliber safety.

Edited April 23, 2024 by BullBuchanan

[NoSaint]

  On 4/23/2024 at 4:34 PM, Brandon said:

 

No,  I'm not joking at all.  I don't think most NFL teams are going to be guilty of it,  but outside of that,  a lot of people are going to take one look at a white guy playing CB in college and immediately assume that he should move to safety in the NFL.   Maybe if he'd posted some pedestrian numbers at his pro day.  Instead,  it was borderline freakish,  especially for a guy one month clear off a broken leg.  

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I absolutely think some coaches will be subject to following the subconscious stereotype. 
 

no catastrophic harm but you watch the film and the comps that jump to mind inevitably will share some physical characteristics. Our brains naturally create buckets for patterns. No white guys play corner isn’t an absurd one to instinctually have lingering back there somewhere 

 

fair to him? Probably not. In the scope of we are all human for better or worse? For sure. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

  On 4/23/2024 at 3:58 PM, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Brian Urlacher says hello 👋 

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  On 4/23/2024 at 4:18 PM, mrags said:

 

Well. I think the difference is that Dejean is listed as a CB in college (not every year but in 2023 he was) and we’re talking about him moving around and being a tweener at multiple positions in the NFL. Where as Urlacher was the tweener in college and he played generally LB in the nfl (other than his first season). 
 

my point is this, in the first round you should be getting a guy that you think is going to be a solid starter at a specific position of need in your team. Not a Swiss Army knife that isn’t great at anything but able to do 3-4 different positions. To me, this kid looks like a go between of a safety and a CB, and will excel at special teams. I don’t see him as much more than a role player. Which is fine, but not worthy of a wasted #1 pick. 
 

And for the record, bringing up a guy like Urlacher being drafted 24 years ago would be like anyone bringing up Len Dawson being one of the best ever. Completely different times. The game has changed. Not even in the same argument. 

 

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They really had to go back 24yrs. 😂