Who are your top 10 QBs in the league

[Nextmanup]

On 1/24/2024 at 7:59 PM, Ya Digg? said:

Made it to the playoffs once

You are evaluating a player with a team statistic.

 

Herbert is huge, has a great arm, and can run.  That's why he's highly regarded.

 

Under better coaching he will flourish.

 

 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Jimmy G and Brock are not even in the same league.  CJ Beathard and Nick Mullens never looked good, I don't get this notion.  And I don't buy they wouldn't be in the league without Shannahan when guys like Nathan Peterman hung around the league.  The CJ Beathards and Nick Mullens of the world hang around the league all the time.

 

And how can you say "he is top 15 guy" but playing at an MVP level because of Shannahan?  There is no Pre-Shannahan period to establish what he is or isn't outside of Shannahan.  All we have seen is him play at an MVP level in his first full season something no other QB in the past 7 years in SF has done or come close to doing.

 

And as I showed before, Kyle and his QB expertise are grossly exaggerated.  He passed on Mahomes, Watson, and Lamar when they badly needed a QB and instead rolled with guys like CJ Bethard and Nick Mullens.  He passed up signing Tom Brady, Geno Smith (3 different seasons), and didn't pull the trigger on Stafford all to stick with Jimmy G.  They invested 3 first rounders into Trey Lance just to have him unseated by Mr. Irrelevant because he couldn't develop him.  Until Purdy came along, his entire tenure in SF since 2017 had been a total failure at QB.

 

His track record with QB's and QB decisions in SF has not been good, and the lack of a QB is why they don't have 2 to 3 SB titles since he got there.  

 

 

 

IRT the bolded, to me, that's irrelevant. I'm not saying Shanahan is a some QB guru who is great at finding good QB's.  I'm saying that his offense is to limited passing QB's what Greg Roman's offense is to limited running QB's.

 

Put another way, you give Jimmy G the Shanahan system with talent, and he looks like a franchise QB in this league. You give it to Nick Mullens or Beathard, and they look like guys who are pretty good backups. You give to Matt Ryan and he's the MVP and sets records.

 

It's the same thing with Roman's system. You give it to Tyrod, he looks solid. You give it to Kaepernick, and he looks really good. You give it to Lamar, and he's the MVP and sets records.

 

That's not a perfect analogy and probably a bit too simple, but imo his system is the rising tide that raises all ships.

 

None of that has anything to do with Shanahan's ability to find a franchise QB. In fact, that's Shanny's Achilles' heel. It's why they have a team that's top to bottom better than ours, but our guys found Josh Allen and they went for Trey Lance, which is why despite them having 7 All-Pros they have zero chips just like us.

 

Here's another little piece of info from last year:

 

W/L: 4-0

Pass YD: 231/game

Comp %: 72.8

Pass TD: 1.75/game (7 in 4 games)

INT: 0

RTG: 113.4

QBR: 73.1

 

W/L: 6-0

Pass YD: 218/game

Comp %: 69.3

Pass TD: 2.16/game (13 over 6 games)

INT: 0.5 (3 over 6 games)

RTG: 115

QBR: 65.9

 

Do you know those two QB's?  One of them is Jimmy G in SF with CMC and the other is Brock Purdy in SF with CMC last season.   So while we don't have info on who Brock Purdy is without Shanahan, we do have info on a guy we can all agree was really a fringe franchise QB and in that system, Brock's numbers are really only moderately better.

 

IRT CJ Beathard never looked good, he had 3400 yards 22 total TD's to 13 INT's in his SF career in 12 starts and 19 games total including spot duty. Do you think those numbers are an accurate reflection of CJ Beathard's skill as an NFL QB, or do you think his production was pumped up by a system built to give QB's training wheels? To me, the answer is very much the latter.  CJ hasn't seen much time since, but if he started 17 games in Jacksonville next year, would he put up 3400 yards and 22 TD's? I doubt it.

 

And the final rub is yes, Purdy is a great story. He has MVP numbers. If he was the first overall pick, he would be the hottest QB in the league. That's all true. But he wasn't the first overall pick for a reason. He does, IMO, have limitations, he does make a significant amount of mistakes, and despite having a great season, he's had moments where he's played closer to his draft status than MVP when he's missing just 1 of his many All-Pros.

 

Suffice it to say, I think Purdy is closer to Mac Jones than he is to Josh Allen or Mahomes, for nothing more than I've watched him play. I like him, he does his job in that system, he is sneaky athletic, he's generally lucky or otherwise safe in regards to turnovers, and I'll be rooting for him this weekend.

 

Really what it comes down to, is do you think Purdy would be the fifth or higher most paid QB in the NFL if they were all FA's tomorrow. I don't think he would be, which is why despite his MVP season, he ain't elite.

 

 

[beebe]

Josh's playoff wins have come against the likes of retiring Phillip Rivers, Skylar Thompson, Mac Jones, Mason Rudolph and playoff choker Lamar. All of them were at home, with the Bills being the superior team or vastly superior. They were 10-point favorites vs Pitt, 14-point favorites vs Miami, 5-point favorites vs New England, 7-point favorites vs Indy and 3-point favorites vs Baltimore. 

 

The losses have come against Mahomes three times, Watson and Burrow. 

 

Football is a team game, and I hate how QB focused everything is these days. But at some point, you really do have to actually win something. Allen is 5-5 in the playoffs. As great as he was vs New England in the Wild Card round in 2021, his three turnovers in the Dolphins playoff game in 2022 put that game in peril vs a third-string QB. As good as he was in the 13 seconds game, he stunk in the 2020 AFC title game vs the Chiefs, and was equally ineffective in the playoff loss to the Bengals. In the Texans loss, the Bills scored a TD on their opening drive and then didn't score another touchdown the rest of the game (blowing a 16-0 lead in the process). 

 

This year vs the Chiefs, he had his team 1st-10 at the 27 yd line, with a chance at a walk off win, and he advanced his team only 1 yard closer before settling for a 44 yd field goal. 

 

Mahomes has won more playoff games (6) in the last 13 months than Allen has won in his entire career (5). Mahomes has six AFC title games in six years, 4 super bowl appearances, 2 super bowl wins (with a third possible in two weeks), and has beaten the Bills all three times in the postseason. Some people act like Mahomes is only good because he has Andy Reid, but last I checked, Andy Reid made one Super Bowl his first 19 years in the league, and has made four in six years since he got a unicorn at QB. 

 

The people that rate Mahomes as inferior to Allen are living in fantasy land. 

Edited January 30 by beebe

[st pete gogolak]

7 minutes ago, beebe said:

Josh's playoff wins have come against the likes of retiring Phillip Rivers, Skylar Thompson, Mac Jones, Mason Rudolph and playoff choker Lamar. All of them were at home, with the Bills being the superior team or vastly superior. They were 10-point favorites vs Pitt, 14-point favorites vs Miami, 5-point favorites vs New England, 7-point favorites vs Indy and 3-point favorites vs Baltimore. 

 

The losses have come against Mahomes three times, Watson and Burrow. 

 

Football is a team game, and I hate how QB focused everything is these days. But at some point, you really do have to actually win something. Allen is 5-5 in the playoffs. As great as he was vs New England in the Wild Card round in 2021, his three turnovers in the Dolphins playoff game in 2022 put that game in peril vs a third-string QB. As good as he was in the 13 seconds game, he stunk in the 2020 AFC title game vs the Chiefs, and was equally ineffective in the playoff loss to the Bengals. In the Texans loss, the Bills scored a TD on their opening drive and then didn't score another touchdown the rest of the game (blowing a 16-0 lead in the process). 

 

This year vs the Chiefs, he had his team 1st-10 at the 27 yd line, with a chance at a walk off win, and he advanced his team only 1 yard closer before settling for a 44 yd field goal. 

 

Mahomes has won more playoff games (6) in the last 13 months than Allen has won in his entire career (5). Mahomes has six AFC title games in six years, 4 super bowl appearances, 2 super bowl wins (with a third possible in two weeks), and has beaten the Bills all three times in the postseason. Some people act like Mahomes is only good because he has Andy Reid, but last I checked, Andy Reid made one Super Bowl his first 19 years in the league, and has made four in six years since he got a unicorn at QB. 

 

The people that rate Mahomes as inferior to Allen are living in fantasy land. 

So, let’s say Mahomes is traded straight up for Allen this offseason.  Bills win the Super Bowl next year, right?  Allen’s playoff numbers are great.  In the last four playoff losses, the numbers for the Bills’s defense are staggeringly bad.  If Allen and Mahomes had traded places five years ago, Allen would have a couple of rings and Mahomes wouldn’t have any.  Mahomes may be better than Allen but the difference isn’t a gulf, it’s a puddle.

[beebe]

5 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

So, let’s say Mahomes is traded straight up for Allen this offseason.  Bills win the Super Bowl next year, right?  Allen’s playoff numbers are great.  In the last four playoff losses, the numbers for the Bills’s defense are staggeringly bad.  If Allen and Mahomes had traded places five years ago, Allen would have a couple of rings and Mahomes wouldn’t have any.  Mahomes may be better than Allen but the difference isn’t a gulf, it’s a puddle.

 

Mahomes would have taken the Bills to the Super Bowl this year, and for sure would have taken at least two previous iterations of the Bills to the Super Bowl. In part because he wouldn't be playing against Mahomes!

 

The Bills D has been 'staggeringly bad' in part because they played Mahomes three times!

Edited January 30 by beebe

[Ya Digg?]

13 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

You are evaluating a player with a team statistic.

 

Herbert is huge, has a great arm, and can run.  That's why he's highly regarded.

 

Under better coaching he will flourish.

 

 

That’s very true I am-but it’s the same standard every other QB in the league is held to. What’s been the conversation about Josh the last week plus - That he chokes in the playoffs. Obviously we all know better but at least Josh is making it to the playoffs to get that criticism. Like I said in my post I get it and I see it, he’s talented, but somehow he is not held to the same standard of scrutiny and criticism that other QBs are. If you look at the lists that everyone is putting out, all of the QBs (besides Stroud) have been in the playoffs multiple times….except for Herbert 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

Mahomes would have taken the Bills to the Super Bowl this year, and for sure would have taken at least two previous iterations of the Bills to the Super Bowl. In part because he wouldn't be playing against Mahomes!

 

I disagree 100%.  Do you think that the Bills defense would have held the Ravens to 3 points for two and a half quarters like the Chiefs did yesterday?  And if Allen was on the Chiefs what do you think he would have done to the Bills defense two weeks ago?

 

 

[Paup 1995MVP]

On 1/24/2024 at 8:08 PM, chongli said:

1. Mahomes

2. Jackson

3. Burrow

4. Allen

5. Rodgers

6. Herbert

7. Hurts

8. Stroud

9. Love

10. (tie) Prescott, Lawrence, Stafford

Where is Goff?

 

I will take him over Hurts Dak and Lawrence every day of the week.  Herbert has done nothing.  He is a baby B word who just loses.  And Josh blows Lamar away.  Stop watching ESPN.  

 

Where is Jameis Winston?  Guy is a gamer.  The black Fitzie.  

[chongli]

3 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Where is Goff?

 

I will take him over Hurts Dak and Lawrence every day of the week.  Herbert has done nothing.  He is a baby B word who just loses.  And Josh blows Lamar away.  Stop watching ESPN.  

 

Where is Jameis Winston?  Guy is a gamer.  The black Fitzie.  

 

Winston? Seriously? How many games did he start this year?

[beebe]

30 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I disagree 100%.  Do you think that the Bills defense would have held the Ravens to 3 points for two and a half quarters like the Chiefs did yesterday?  And if Allen was on the Chiefs what do you think he would have done to the Bills defense two weeks ago?

 

 

 

The Bills D isn't as bad as they're being portrayed. Last I checked, they had essentially full access to their defensive line vs the Chiefs (Daquan Jones returned a week prior), they had their two starting safeties (Hyde and Poyer) and their two best CBs (Douglas and Johnson). Bernard was the biggest notable absence, and the Chiefs took advantage of Klein no doubt. But Mahomes/Kelce ran circles around the elite Ravens D, and I've seen them run circles around elite and fully healthy Bills defenses of the past (with Milano and Edmunds on the field). I don't know why it's assumed the Chiefs wouldn't have torched McDermott's fully healthy D in the playoffs this time just like they did the prior two times, and I don't know why it's assumed the Bills wouldn't have slowed the Ravens. The Bills D has been plenty good the last 4 years including in the playoffs except for when they play the Chiefs, or another elite QB like Burrow (in the snow). 

 

 

The Chiefs lost their best safety Bryan Cook to injury in early December, his replacement at safety Mike Edwards exited the first defensive series with concussion vs the Bills. The Chiefs had to roll the entire game with 4th-round rookie Chamarri Conner, who ultimately played a career-high (by far) 76 snaps vs the Bills. The Chiefs' best LB Willie Gay exited early with injury vs Bills (he was supposed to be the spy on Allen all day). The Chiefs were already without their best run-stuffing DL Derrick Nnadi. 

 

The way it's portrayed, you would think the Bills had a full roster of backups on the field. 

Edited January 30 by beebe

[st pete gogolak]

49 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

Mahomes would have taken the Bills to the Super Bowl this year, and for sure would have taken at least two previous iterations of the Bills to the Super Bowl. In part because he wouldn't be playing against Mahomes!

 

The Bills D has been 'staggeringly bad' in part because they played Mahomes three times!

Can’t tell anymore. Is this sarcasm?

[beebe]

8 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

Can’t tell anymore. Is this sarcasm?

 

Buffalo's D in playoffs:

 

vs Texans - 5.5 yards per play allowed

vs Colts - 6.2 yards per play allowed

vs Ravens - 4.7 yards per play allowed

vs Chiefs - 6.9 yards per play allowed

vs Patriots - 5 yards per play allowed

vs Chiefs - 7.6 yards per play allowed

vs Dolphins - 3.3 yards per play allowed

vs Bengals - 5.8 yards per play allowed

vs Steelers - 5.1 yards per play allowed

vs Chiefs - 7.7 yards per play allowed

 

Bills D vs non Chiefs: 5.0 yards per play allowed

Bills vs Chiefs: 7.4 yards per play allowed

 

The three worst playoff performances by Buffalo's D have all come against Mahomes and the Chiefs. They gave up 38 points and 36 points with fully loaded healthy defenses in prior years - defenses that rated out as top 5 units in the league. I'm not sure why Bernard's presence instead of Klein would have dramatically changed the calculus here. 

Edited January 30 by beebe

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

Buffalo's D in playoffs:

 

vs Texans - 5.5 yards per play allowed

vs Colts - 6.2 yards per play allowed

vs Ravens - 4.7 yards per play allowed

vs Chiefs - 6.9 yards per play allowed

vs Patriots - 5 yards per play allowed

vs Chiefs - 7.6 yards per play allowed

vs Dolphins - 3.3 yards per play allowed

vs Bengals - 5.8 yards per play allowed

vs Steelers - 5.1 yards per play allowed

vs Chiefs - 7.7 yards per play allowed

 

Bills D vs non Chiefs: 5.0 yards per play allowed

Bills vs Chiefs: 7.4 yards per play allowed

 

The three worst playoff performances by Buffalo's D have all come against Mahomes and the Chiefs. They gave up 38 points and 36 points with fully loaded healthy defenses in prior years - defenses that rated out as top 5 units in the league. I'm not sure why Bernard's presence instead of Klein would have dramatically changed the calculus here. 

It’s almost like he’s the greatest QB in the game. 

[Andy1]

Mahomes is great. In addition to his crazy good talent though, he is surrounded by an incredible organization with a Hall of Fame TE target. Their GM is one of the best in the league at identifying talent in the draft. Andy Reid and Spags are tops in their profession. All of that is what makes Mahomes and KC great. Coordinators leaving hasn’t impacted their team performance. it’s a tall, tall task for any team to match them as they continually rebuild their team each year. 

 

 

[beebe]

Just now, FireChans said:

It’s almost like he’s the greatest QB in the game. 

 

That's been my thesis, but somehow it gets pushback. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, beebe said:

 

That's been my thesis, but somehow it gets pushback. 

Folks used to call Brady a system QB, it was all Belichick, he's just lucky, etc etc.

 

Really, the admission that Brady is the GOAT only happened here in Bills land after he left New England and stopped being our boogeyman.

 

Now, they are afraid to say Mahomes is the best because he's our new boogeyman.

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

That's been my thesis, but somehow it gets pushback. 

Here's a wonderful topic in 2019!!!!!

 

 

Folks twisting themselves into knots that the 6 time SB champion (at the time) wasn't that important. Lmao.

[Billsatlastin2018]

1. Mahomes

 

2. Allen

3. Burrow

4. Jackson

 

5. Herbert

6. Stroud

7. Love

 

8. Purdy.

9. Rodgers  I don’t expect him to return anywhere near what he was- at his age.

10. Hurts

 

Etc. Prescott, Stafford, Mayfield

[Andy1]

While I think Josh can match Mahomes at the talent level, I’m not sure if the Bills organization can support him to the same level the Chiefs do for Mahomes. I’m talking about finding talent, coaching, O and D game planning and game day strategy and play calling. Brady has to match wits with Spags for us to be successful. 
 

Eventually the injury bug should bite them and then maybe then we will be able to get by them.

[Gugny]

15 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Folks used to call Brady a system QB, it was all Belichick, he's just lucky, etc etc.

 

Really, the admission that Brady is the GOAT only happened here in Bills land after he left New England and stopped being our boogeyman.

 

Now, they are afraid to say Mahomes is the best because he's our new boogeyman.

And KC is the new NE. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

And KC is the new NE. 

YUP.

[90sBills]

22 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It’s almost like he’s the greatest QB in the game. 

Not around here he isn’t. 

22 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

That's been my thesis, but somehow it gets pushback. 

Read the room my man. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, 90sBills said:

Not around here he isn’t. 

Read the room my man. 

He is everywhere. Including in reality.

[90sBills]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

He is everywhere. Including in reality.

I agree. But I’m in a small minority here. 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I agree. But I’m in a small minority here. 

It's kind of sad in a way. They can't imagine how the team gets tight when they actually have to PLAY against Mahomes and the Chiefs in the playoffs, but sitting at their computer or on their tablet comfy at home, they are petrified to even give the guy the credit he deserves.

Edited January 30 by FireChans

[beebe]

25 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

While I think Josh can match Mahomes at the talent level, I’m not sure if the Bills organization can support him to the same level the Chiefs do for Mahomes. I’m talking about finding talent, coaching, O and D game planning and game day strategy and play calling. Brady has to match wits with Spags for us to be successful. 
 

Eventually the injury bug should bite them and then maybe then we will be able to get by them.

 

Agree the offensive coaching staff is great (although few had that opinion this year amid all the struggles with Nagy as OC after Bieniemy departed.) 

 

Mahomes WRs the last two AFC championship games:

 

vs Bengals '22: JuJu, MVS, Marcus Kemp, Skyy Moore, Hardman, Toney

vs Ravens '23: Rice, MVS, Justin Watson, Richie James, Hardman 

 

This is a bottom 3 WR corps in the NFL both years. 

Edited January 30 by beebe

[Andy1]

3 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

Agree the offensive coaching staff is great (although few had that opinion this year amid all the struggles with Nagy as OC after Bieniemy departed.) 

 

Mahomes WRs the last two AFC championship games:

 

vs Bengals '22: JuJu, MVS, Marcus Kemp, Skyy Moore, Hardman, Toney

vs Ravens '23: Rice, MVS, Justin Watson, Richie James, Hardman 

 

This is a bottom 3 WR corps in the NFL both years. 

Agree too, and yet there they go to the SB both years. Their GM has completely remade their team. They have a great defense now, a good run game, lousy receivers with a great QB and TE. GM and coaching are a big part of their success.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, beebe said:

The Bills D isn't as bad as they're being portrayed. Last I checked, they had essentially full access to their defensive line vs the Chiefs (Daquan Jones returned a week prior), they had their two starting safeties (Hyde and Poyer) and their two best CBs (Douglas and Johnson). Bernard was the biggest notable absence, and the Chiefs took advantage of Klein no doubt. But Mahomes/Kelce ran circles around the elite Ravens D

 

This is the most uneducated collection of statements I've ever seen on this board. Suffice it to say, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Nephilim17]

Suprised to see a lot of people apparently rank Jackson over Burrow.

 

1. Pat

2. Josh/Joe

Big drop to the next level.

[beebe]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is the most uneducated collection of statements I've ever seen on this board. Suffice it to say, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

what am i missing? the way this board talks, you'd think the bills were missing ed reed, ray lewis and lawrence taylor. 

[HappyDays]

"Ran circles" around the Ravens D. Chiefs had 8 consecutive drives of:

 

Turnover on downs

Punt

FG

Punt

Punt

Punt

Punt

Punt

 

Ran circles. Get outta here with that crap.

[beebe]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

"Ran circles" around the Ravens D. Chiefs had 8 consecutive drives of:

 

Turnover on downs

Punt

FG

Punt

Punt

Punt

Punt

Punt

 

Ran circles. Get outta here with that crap.

 

I said Mahomes/Kelce did, not the entire Chiefs offense. Mahomes targeted Kelce 11 times vs the Ravens, completed all 11 passes, for 116 yards and a TD. Look at all their game-by-game stats in the last six years in the playoffs. Kelce has played the equivalent of a full regular season with Mahomes in the playoffs (17 games). 133 receptions, 1,516 yards, 18 touchdowns.

 

People here act like there is a Bills LB on the roster that would have slowed Kelce down. No linebacker or safety in the league has slowed him down in the playoffs since Mahomes came to town. 

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

"Ran circles" around the Ravens D. Chiefs had 8 consecutive drives of:

 

Turnover on downs

Punt

FG

Punt

Punt

Punt

Punt

Punt

 

Ran circles. Get outta here with that crap.

They were up two scores for almost every drive listed there. There was probably a focus to not force it and give the Ravens a turnover and some life. Something we have seen other elite QB’s unfortunately do.

[HappyDays]

16 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

what am i missing? the way this board talks, you'd think the bills were missing ed reed, ray lewis and lawrence taylor. 

 

Let's break it down line by line.

 

Quote

Last I checked, they had essentially full access to their defensive line vs the Chiefs (Daquan Jones returned a week prior)

 

This is the one thing you said that has merit. The DL was healthy and underperformed relative to expectations.

 

Quote

they had their two starting safeties (Hyde and Poyer)

 

Why does this matter? Hyde and Poyer have both been well below their standards this year. I doubt either will be on the roster next year. When we say the defense stunk, we're including the safety play within that.

 

Quote

their two best CBs (Douglas and Johnson)

 

Sure, Douglas limping around the field definitely means our defense was close to full strength. Nice try. Christian Benford being replaced by Dane Jackson, who had the 2nd worst performance on the defense, isn't worth bringing up according to you. Get outta here with this crap.

 

Quote

Bernard was the biggest notable absence, and the Chiefs took advantage of Klein no doubt.

 

Oh yeah, they "took advantage" of Klein alright. I appreciate your attempt to minimize this by lumping it in with the rest. Klein had one of the worst individual defensive performances I've ever seen in a playoff game. It harkened back to a Mike Hughes performance in a game you might have watched two years ago. I recall a mediocre WR racking up Randy Moss like stats as a result. Yes one absolutely terrible no-business-being-on-the-field defensive player can single handedly ruin the game for everybody else. That was Klein in this one, with an honorable mention going to Dane Jackson.

 

Quote

The Bills D isn't as bad as they're being portrayed.

 

Get outta here with that crap.

 

Edited January 30 by HappyDays

[beebe]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Let's break it down line by line.

 

 

This is the one thing you said that has merit. The DL was healthy underperformed relative to expectations.

 

 

Why does this matter? Hyde and Poyer have both been well below their standards this year. I doubt either will be on the roster next year. When we say the defense stunk, we're including the safety play within that.

 

 

Sure, Douglas limping around the field definitely means our defense was close to full strength. Nice try. Christian Benford being replaced by Dane Jackson, who had the 2nd worst performance on the defense, isn't worth bringing up according to you. Get outta here with this crap.

 

 

Oh yeah, they "took advantage" of Klein alright. I appreciate your attempt to minimize this by lumping it in with the rest. Klein had one of the worst individual defensive performances I've ever seen in a playoff game. It harkened back to a Mike Hughes performance in a game you might have watched two years ago. I recall a mediocre WR racking up Randy Moss like stats as a result. Yes one absolutely terrible no-business-being-on-the-field defensive player can single handedly ruin the game for everybody else. That was Klein in this one, with an honorable mention going to Dane Jackson.

 

 

Get outta here with that crap.

 

Not a very persuasive rebuttal to the "most uneducated collection of statements" you've ever read. Should have just taken your L and moved on. 😂

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

I said Mahomes/Kelce did, not the entire Chiefs offense. Mahomes targeted Kelce 11 times vs the Ravens, completed all 11 passes, for 116 yards and a TD. Look at all their game-by-game stats in the last six years in the playoffs. Kelce has played the equivalent of a full regular season with Mahomes in the playoffs (17 games). 133 receptions, 1,516 yards, 18 touchdowns.

 

People here act like there is a Bills LB on the roster that would have slowed Kelce down. No linebacker or safety in the league has slowed him down in the playoffs since Mahomes came to town. 

 

No offensive player "runs circles" around an opposing defense while getting shut out for an entire half. If you want to say they ran circles around the Ravens D for 2 quarters, go for it. Football is played in 4 quarters.

 

Your point is wrong. You're trying to argue Mahomes and the Chiefs offense are simply unstoppable and there is nothing the Bills defense could have done to slow them down. You're trying to argue the defensive injuries didn't matter. This is obviously on the face of it incorrect. Gee, what happened to the Chiefs offense after those other playoff games you cited (while ignoring that Tyreek Hill was on the field but we'll let that slide)? They must have run circles around their following opponents, right?

[beebe]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

No offensive player "runs circles" around an opposing defense while getting shut out for an entire half. If you want to say they ran circles around the Ravens D for 2 quarters, go for it. Football is played in 4 quarters.

 

Your point is wrong. You're trying to argue Mahomes and the Chiefs offense are simply unstoppable and there is nothing the Bills defense could have done to slow them down. You're trying to argue the defensive injuries didn't matter. This is obviously on the face of it incorrect. Gee, what happened to the Chiefs offense after those other playoff games you cited (while ignoring that Tyreek Hill was on the field but we'll let that slide)? They must have run circles around their following opponents, right?

 

The Bills defense has never been able to stop KC's offense in the playoffs. In fact, the three worst defensive playoff performances of the McDermott era have all come against the Chiefs. In two occasions, Klein was nowhere to be seen. But please keep cranking the excuse machine. 

[BuffBillsForLife]

1. Mahomes

2. Allen

3. Burrow

4. Lamar

5. Stafford

6. Herbert

7. Stroud

8. Lawrence

9. Dak

10. Hurts

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, beebe said:

The Bills defense has never been able to stop KC's offense in the playoffs.

 

Couldn't agree more. What is your point? If you want to hop on the Fire McDermott train with me, there are plenty of seats available.

[beebe]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Couldn't agree more. What is your point? If you want to hop on the Fire McDermott train with me, there are plenty of seats available.

The Bills don't have a McDermott problem. They have a keep-running-into-Mahomes-problem.