RoyBatty is alive Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 On 1/24/2024 at 6:44 PM, 78thealltimegreat said: There isn’t a right or wrong answer just was curious as the top 4 seems pretty set in stone Patrick Josh Lamar Joey B after that you can throw names in a hat Id go Matt Stafford Dak Prescott Justin Herbert Jalen Hurts Aaron Rogers CJ Stroud is a top 5 QB right now. 4 minutes ago, FireChans said: My top 10 QB ranking historically has been “if every QB was a free agent tomorrow, what would their contracts rank,” because it takes into account injury risk, youth and ceiling. Mahomes Allen Burrow Jackson Stroud Herbert Love Dak Lawrence Hurts On the bubble was Cousins, Stafford, Goff, Rodgers for the criterion listed above. I’m starting to lose faith in Hurts but until he crashes and burns I can’t keep him out. This is a solid ranking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 12 minutes ago, FireChans said: My top 10 QB ranking historically has been “if every QB was a free agent tomorrow, what would their contracts rank,” because it takes into account injury risk, youth and ceiling. Given these criteria I think Stroud would be at worst #3 on the list behind Allen and Mahomes. Might get some votes for having him ahead of Allen even. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: Given these criteria I think Stroud would be at worst #3 on the list behind Allen and Mahomes. Might get some votes for having him ahead of Allen even. I disagree. While Burrow has been injured twice in his career, he has shown at his peak the ability to beat Mahomes in Arrowhead and go to the Super Bowl. Stroud played at a very high level but for only 1 year, and lost to the weight class above him. If I made this list last year, Hurts was rounding out the top 5, now he’s almost on the edge. That matters as well. Edited January 26 by FireChans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray51 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Guys who can carry a team: Mahomes Allen Burrow Guys who can elevate a team's system: Jackson Dak Stafford Rodgers Guys who are elevated by a system: Tua Goff Purdy Hurts Guys who can make the playoffs but will never win: Carr Cousins Murray Mayfield Smith Fields Guys I dont know what they are yet but have promise: Love Stroud Lawrence Herbert Those are 21 guys. Once you go past that you are in non-starter territory. If I were to pick a top 10 QBs I'd want on my franchise right now (including age, contract, potential, stats): 1. Mahomes 2. Allen 3. Burrow 4. Lamar 5. Stroud 6. Dak 7. Herbert 8. Love 9. Tua 10. Stafford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: Given these criteria I think Stroud would be at worst #3 on the list behind Allen and Mahomes. Might get some votes for having him ahead of Allen even. I cant argue against that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 I think there is a massive drop off after Mahomes & Allen, but if Lamar balls out on Sunday.. I might have to finally put him in that group. Burrow, injuries and a loaded roster.. still need to see more from him. His one playoff run to the Super Bowl was the inverse of Josh Allen Playoffs… carried by his Defense and Kicker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Mahomes Allen Burrow Tua Dak Trevor Lamar Brock Stroud Love Stafford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaDigital Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 sorry guys, jalen hurts? dude's a bum... not a good thrower of the football. does not belong anywhere near the top 10. Stroud/Love are the next generation. They'll be competing for a long time. 1. Mahomes 2. Allen. That's all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: Mahomes Allen Burrow Tua Dak Trevor Lamar Brock Stroud Love Stafford Tua and the Brocketship over Herbert is INSANE. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Just now, FireChans said: Tua and the Brocketship over Herbert is INSANE. I forgot about Herbert tbh probably because he didn't play when we faced the Chargers, so yeah put him in at #4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 11 hours ago, GunnerBill said: 1. Mahomes 2. Allen 3. Burrow 4. Jackson 5. Herbert 6. Prescott 7. Hurts 8. Stafford 9. Stroud 10. Love I am probably too low on Stroud and Love but I am a guy who generally wants to see you back it up before I go all in. And I am not rating Rodgers in this. Haven't seen him all year and while at 30 that wouldn't worry me at 40 it does. He'd be 6th based on his play the last time I saw him. But too much guess work as to how he'd play now. This is a really good list, but I would move Herbert down to around 10. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 On 1/25/2024 at 12:26 PM, finn said: I thought we were talking about the best QBs, not the most successful. Success has to do with such things as having a reliable kicker on your team. On the hand, pure talent isn't everything, either, as Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, and (arguably) Justin Herbert have shown. In settling the question of who is the best, I feel I'm all alone in arguing for a metric that accounts for differing coaching, scheme, surrounding talent, and so on, at least to the degree possible. For example, I would argue Allen outplayed Mahomes on Sunday since he was playing against a much better defense. His beautiful 65-yard pass to Diggs matched any throw Mahomes made in his career. It shouldn't matter that it was dropped, just like it SHOULD matter that Mahomes threw two incomplete passes, unpressured, in the end zone that should have been TDs. On Sunday, I saw a god of a quarterback playing the position as well as anyone could in history, patiently picking apart a top defense not giving him anything easy. His opposite number did not need to be great, since he was playing pitch and catch against third-string practice squad players. Yet you'll hear that Mahomes outplayed Allen. It's crazy to me at times, but it has always been this way. When analyzing what happened Sunday, I've heard pundits & opposing fans cite the Bills injuries on defense, the poor play of their defense, the huge drops by Diggs & Sherfield, and the plain fact that Reid (with Spags) is a much better coach than McDermott & adjusted more at halftime. But the conclusion is always the same: Mahomes bested Allen, again. Mahomes is better by a mile. Look at the AFCCG's and Super Bowls. It's just the way it's gonna be until the Bills can break through in the playoffs. I don't mind people ranking Mahomes #1, but it's not the blowout that so many say, imo. I think Allen would have the same accomplishments if he had ended up on KC all those years ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 25 minutes ago, Billl said: This is a really good list, but I would move Herbert down to around 10. Why are you so down on Herby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 14 minutes ago, Success said: It's crazy to me at times, but it has always been this way. When analyzing what happened Sunday, I've heard pundits & opposing fans cite the Bills injuries on defense, the poor play of their defense, the huge drops by Diggs & Sherfield, and the plain fact that Reid (with Spags) is a much better coach than McDermott & adjusted more at halftime. But the conclusion is always the same: Mahomes bested Allen, again. Mahomes is better by a mile. Look at the AFCCG's and Super Bowls. It's just the way it's gonna be until the Bills can break through in the playoffs. I don't mind people ranking Mahomes #1, but it's not the blowout that so many say, imo. I think Allen would have the same accomplishments if he had ended up on KC all those years ago. He’s just inevitable man. We heard “Mahomes has two HoF targets, but he’s been figured out!” They went to the Super Bowl. Then it was “he lost Hill, let’s see how he does now!” They won the Super Bowl. Then we heard, “this is the weakest KC offense we have ever seen, their best weapon is their running back and Kelce has lost a step.” They are in their 6th straight AFCCG. And they beat us. Again. It’s not much different than when everyone was eagerly expecting the end of the Pats when they would start out 2-2 and look out of sync, only for them to end up in the AFCCG again. At this point, I would be SHOCKED if KC wasn’t in the next 5/10 AFCCG’s. They are going to always be a deep playoff team. It’s inevitable. Will Josh Allen be in the next 5 AFCCG’s? Maybe. I doubt it. Allen is incredible and a wonder to watch, but at some point it stops being a coincidence. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 8 minutes ago, FireChans said: He’s just inevitable man. We heard “Mahomes has two HoF targets, but he’s been figured out!” They went to the Super Bowl. Then it was “he lost Hill, let’s see how he does now!” They won the Super Bowl. Then we heard, “this is the weakest KC offense we have ever seen, their best weapon is their running back and Kelce has lost a step.” They are in their 6th straight AFCCG. And they beat us. Again. It’s not much different than when everyone was eagerly expecting the end of the Pats when they would start out 2-2 and look out of sync, only for them to end up in the AFCCG again. At this point, I would be SHOCKED if KC wasn’t in the next 5/10 AFCCG’s. They are going to always be a deep playoff team. It’s inevitable. Will Josh Allen be in the next 5 AFCCG’s? Maybe. I doubt it. Allen is incredible and a wonder to watch, but at some point it stops being a coincidence. So, just a thought exercise (and it's been posed here before, I know): if Mahomes came to the Bills in that draft, and Allen ended up in KC - with all of the rest being the same - do you think you would still be saying all of the above? Would Reid be without a SB? Would McDermott have 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 38 minutes ago, Success said: It's crazy to me at times, but it has always been this way. When analyzing what happened Sunday, I've heard pundits & opposing fans cite the Bills injuries on defense, the poor play of their defense, the huge drops by Diggs & Sherfield, and the plain fact that Reid (with Spags) is a much better coach than McDermott & adjusted more at halftime. But the conclusion is always the same: Mahomes bested Allen, again. Mahomes is better by a mile. Look at the AFCCG's and Super Bowls. It's just the way it's gonna be until the Bills can break through in the playoffs. I don't mind people ranking Mahomes #1, but it's not the blowout that so many say, imo. I think Allen would have the same accomplishments if he had ended up on KC all those years ago. If we don’t get hit with a rash of injuries the last two weeks before KC or our WR’s step tf up just the slightest bit in that game… We win and are playing on Sunday And… Allen would have beaten Mahomes repeatedly head to head aside from 13 seconds Leading to.. The very real convo being had in sports media this week of “Is Josh Allen the best QB in the NFL?” The difference between the narrative we see now and what could’ve been has nothing to do with Josh Allen. It has to do with his coaches and teammates. It is what it is. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Success said: So, just a thought exercise (and it's been posed here before, I know): if Mahomes came to the Bills in that draft, and Allen ended up in KC - with all of the rest being the same - do you think you would still be saying all of the above? Would Reid be without a SB? Would McDermott have 2? I think it’s possible that McD has one and Reid has zero, yeah. Edited January 26 by FireChans 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Just now, FireChans said: I think it’s possible that McD has one and Reid has zero, yeah. Not a chance, imo. Allen has been undone by coaching, and the team in general. He carries the Bills - it's a one man show at times, and it was on Sunday. Mahomes has rarely carried his team the same way. Mahomes wouldn't have a ring here. And Allen for sure would have at least one in KC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Just now, Success said: Not a chance, imo. Allen has been undone by coaching, and the team in general. He carries the Bills - it's a one man show at times, and it was on Sunday. Mahomes has rarely carried his team the same way. Mahomes wouldn't have a ring here. And Allen for sure would have at least one in KC. Mahomes brought one of the worst defenses in the NFL to the AFCCG. Josh Allen has had a top 5 defense every year but one, and ironically that was the year he got to the AFCCG. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 hours ago, Cray51 said: Guys who can carry a team: Mahomes Allen Burrow Guys who can elevate a team's system: Jackson Dak Stafford Rodgers Guys who are elevated by a system: Tua Goff Purdy Hurts Guys who can make the playoffs but will never win: Carr Cousins Murray Mayfield Smith Fields Guys I dont know what they are yet but have promise: Love Stroud Lawrence Herbert Those are 21 guys. Once you go past that you are in non-starter territory. If I were to pick a top 10 QBs I'd want on my franchise right now (including age, contract, potential, stats): 1. Mahomes 2. Allen 3. Burrow 4. Lamar 5. Stroud 6. Dak 7. Herbert 8. Love 9. Tua 10. Stafford And that's the end of the thread. 100% accurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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