Second blitz at end of game

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, Thrivefourfive said:

 

Does Taron Johnson make plays downfield? Serious question. He’s the best slot DB in the league (very arguable) for a reason. I’m going to bet that chasing speedsters isn’t his forte, and he proved that to be true.
 

How many timeouts did the Bills have in their pocket on this game deciding play? McDermott doesn’t have the game time smarts for the heady stuff.
 

The only solace I find is that the Broncos would’ve gotten the first down on the next play, even if McDermott’s blitz got home.

 

Russ can throw it 50 from his butt

that’s the thing. Payton lined up his WRs and tod them to go deep. Russ was told if it’s a jailhouse break ID a matchup off the line and heaven it. If they slowed down the blitz at all it’s a TD because we aren’t wining that battle with all 4 corners on an island. In the end the offense knew the assignment and executed it. If it doesn’t work out they have another snap. 
 

the real win was anything short that left a looooong kick to either lose the game or get the ball back with timeouts to get our own win. 

[Snappysnackcakes]

7 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

I’m simply asking you to back up your OP, but instead you’ve just floundered around and become defensive.

And if we sat back in zone they probably would have. By blitzing we forced them into making a low percentage throw. It didn’t work in our favor. Doesn’t make it a bad call though.

No play, by design, is called to fail. As an example, a FB dive is not designed to result in an 80 yard TD, but getting even 4 yards is a successful design and likely solid execution. In this case, by calling, essentially, consecutive identical blitzes, and leaving TJ alone in coverage, we gave Denver a do over and we got burned. It cannot be this difficult to understand the coach telling his QB, “If they try this again, then do this” which is EXACTLY what transpired. And I stand by my post in strongly believing Coach has reached his ceiling in this league. For this call, 12 men, and a slew of other reasons. It’s not an attack on the man, it’s just an obvious reality - at least to me and 3/5 of Wallers. Nobody has to agree with me, and clearly you do not. All I can picture is Pee-Wee Herman repeating “I know you are but what am I?” after someone calls him a name. That’s literally how you’ve treated this thread, with the redundant responses. 

[HoofHearted]

48 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

My question was (and I haven’t rewatched so my memory could be hazy…thanks blue light) …why in this scenario when we are sending pressure on 3&10 just narrowly out of FG range…are we taking a flat foot read from 5 yards off the ball. Why not press tighter to the LOS?

It’s called Man 7 coverage. Basically you sit at 7 knowing it’s gotta be a quick pass because of the blitz so you sit on top of the route expecting a quick hitter inside that you can drive to the catch point which is typically 5 yards. It’s a safer way to play 0 when you don’t have guys who can consistently win at the LoS.

[Bob Jones]

9 hours ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

I wholeheartedly agree that Sean needs to be replaced and the second blitz in a row, at the end of the game, seals it for me. This was a legitimately terrible defensive play call. Period. Sean is the DC. End of story. He, unlike previous seasons, has no one to blame. It’s on him and he was outsmarted by a very talented coach and very experienced QB. This is a microcosm of Sean’s time as HC. I wish to be succinct, so that’s it. 

I agree, and the most disappointing thing is that they made no effort to conceal the fact that it was coming, so Russell Wilson knew exactly what to do.

 

Also, the coverage was pure garbage. Jeudy was past Johnson almost immediately. How in holy hell do you let a guy get behind you so quickly, especially at that point in the game!? That is one time where Johnson absolutely should have been playing back a little and keeping Jeudy in front of him. It was 3rd and 10 with :35 on the clock when the play started and Denver had no timeouts left.

[HoofHearted]

19 minutes ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

No play, by design, is called to fail. As an example, a FB dive is not designed to result in an 80 yard TD, but getting even 4 yards is a successful design and likely solid execution. In this case, by calling, essentially, consecutive identical blitzes, and leaving TJ alone in coverage, we gave Denver a do over and we got burned. It cannot be this difficult to understand the coach telling his QB, “If they try this again, then do this” which is EXACTLY what transpired. And I stand by my post in strongly believing Coach has reached his ceiling in this league. For this call, 12 men, and a slew of other reasons. It’s not an attack on the man, it’s just an obvious reality - at least to me and 3/5 of Wallers. Nobody has to agree with me, and clearly you do not. All I can picture is Pee-Wee Herman repeating “I know you are but what am I?” after someone calls him a name. That’s literally how you’ve treated this thread, with the redundant responses. 

There’s the disconnect. This isn’t about McDermott to me. I’ve been solely speaking about the call itself. To be clear - it was not the identical call as the play before. Also, I’ve never said it was the only call that should be made there. I just want us (as a board) to get out of this mindset of “if a play doesn’t work it was a bad call” mentality. Or at the very least be able to back up why it was a bad call from a schematic/situational standpoint.

 

And to be very clear Russ threw up a prayer - all you guys saying the rainbow was intentional to draw a flag are hilarious.

[Bob Jones]

3 hours ago, Since1981 said:

Payton out coached our McD, not unlike Reid’s :13. Think about it, inferior team, on road, scramble FG unit and yet, it was our guy that couldn’t count to 11? Oh yeah, he only has 10 fingers so….

TBF, on that play where Denver ran in its FG unit, the clock was running, the Bills were out of timeouts, and they also ran in some players (saw at least 5 on the replay) on their FG defensive unit, and there literally was no time for somebody on the Bills side to do a head count. And even if they did the count, and realized they had 12 guys out there, nothing could be done about it since they had no TOs and there wasn’t enough time for the guy to run off.

 

Who was going to be out there for the FG should have been decided during one of the TWO timeouts the Bills had just previously used. IMHO, the FG defensive unit should have already been out there on Denver’s 3rd down….in that situation there’s always a chance that a team will kick it on 3rd down anyway (in case there’s a fumbled snap, they can do it again/earlier in the game Denver did have a fumbled snap). In this case though, Denver wanted to run the clock down to nuthin, and that’s why they didn’t spike the ball on 3rd down.

[Snappysnackcakes]

57 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

There’s the disconnect. This isn’t about McDermott to me. I’ve been solely speaking about the call itself. To be clear - it was not the identical call as the play before. Also, I’ve never said it was the only call that should be made there. I just want us (as a board) to get out of this mindset of “if a play doesn’t work it was a bad call” mentality. Or at the very least be able to back up why it was a bad call from a schematic/situational standpoint.

 

And to be very clear Russ threw up a prayer - all you guys saying the rainbow was intentional to draw a flag are hilarious.

Well holy smokes, we agree. As I just said, no play is designed to fail. You can execute a play perfectly and still “lose” that down. First blitz was a win. Second was a loss. The second blitz effectively allowed the Broncs to “try again” and I believe the “rainbow” was by design because it is more difficult to time a catch (offensively and defensively) which favors the offense. Think of it as a quasi Hail Mary except, most importantly, a DPI has to be called if it occurs.

I stand by my believing Coach has finished evolving and needs to be replaced. No good comes from this organization doing a midseason change and he’s done more than enough to earn a full, final season. And to all who think this unit can rally and save the season, I sure hope so, but Allen looks nothing like himself and Coach has run out of people to blame. If he’s given another HC job, he needs to study his mentor Reid and Belichick. The buck stops with them. 

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I get what you are saying, but still put it all on the offense.  Both those games we should have been up multiple scores by the 4th quarter, not playing from behind trying to steal a win.  Other teams are blowing those teams out and our team can't break 25 points.  

 

So many bad calls and mistakes like the Pats game where came away with 0 points after Dorsey ran on 3rd and goal from inside the 1 and chose to do it in shotgun with a past his prime RB 6 yards behind the LOS.  Which by the way, was the 2nd week in a row he made the exact same stupid decision that didn't work either game.  

 

Point is, while yes the defense came up short at the end of the game, the only reason the defense was in that position was because our offense stinks.  And our defense has frequently been out on the field way too long thanks to the anemic offense and its already severely short handed as it is.  The offense has been healthy for the most part yet has been our achilles heal every week.

 

So not disagreeing with you about the defense coming up short on those drives, but I fault the D less for that and more the O for even being in that position and often on the field more than they should be too because the offense has stunk.  

Right, you fault the D less.  Which puts some blame on the D, which disagrees with your statement that you put it all on the offense.  You’re saying one thing (all on the o) , but then saying something (less fault on the D….but still admitting fault). 
 

Our 5-5 record isn’t because of just one facet of the team.  

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And in both GWDs stupid blitzes hurt us. I was to take McDermott's playbook and rip the blitz pages out. Because they suck.

Agreed.  Spags brings it and Spags gets home.  Some DCs know when and how to bring it.  McD doesn’t seem to know how right now. 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

Agreed.  Spags brings it and Spags gets home.  Some DCs know when and how to bring it.  McD doesn’t seem to know how right now. 

 

The reason the 2nd down blitz worked was because the Bills almost never send an all out blitz like that. It was a good call. To give Russ a look at it and then call the very next blitz the very next down was just bad coaching. That scenario was ideal to run a simulated pressure, rush 4 but drop a lineman out and bring a backer or a corner as the 4th guy. 

[ILBillsfan]

Denver had zero timeouts at this time....no need for that zero blitz play the sticks most likely they are doing a sideline route to try to pick up some cheap yards they can take a chance to go to far and have time expire on them 

[Charles Romes]

11 hours ago, BUFFALOTONE said:

They picked us apart all night underneath I agree with the call. Better than watching that soft zone coverage where they pick up 8 yards a play. Taron just didn’t get his head around… Simple as that. 

the blitz forced an horrendous balloon throw that Taron should have defended.  He had forever to read the receiver’s reaction and turn around. Game over. Taron blew the play 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

You can't defend a zero blitz at that time after the sack. He got lucky with a good call and getting the sack. All he has to do on that next play is rush 3, drop 7, and spy Wilson. Simple. 

McDermott has to go if we want to win it all. I've said it for three years and been leading the anti McDermott charge. Nice that others are joining the bandwagon. 

 

[shane nelson]

Straight from the Greg Williams playbook 

[starrymessenger]

11 hours ago, NoSaint said:

payton is notorious for calling 4 verticals against that 

 

given our secondary and their receivers they pre snap can call the lollipop and know there is a decent chance the DB will not execute on the level of the WR. 
 

we begged them to target our weakness with the not unlikely result being we never touch the ball again.

Actually I thought it was worse than that. People are criticizing Taron for not turning his head around, fair enuf but the problem occurred long before. Jeudy got about 5 yards of separation on Taron off the snap. I don't think Broncos were throwing up a lollipop looking for a flag. If the ball had not been badly under thrown Jeudy would easily have sailed into the end zone untouched. Taron is a good player that does a lot of things well but I wouldn't see him in man vs Jeudy. He just doesn't have that kind of foot speed to stay with a guy like that. Maybe McD was expecting a crossing pattern where Taron would have a shot but that's not what they called. 
Speaking for myself I would have liked to see another body back there. 

[John from Riverside]

It was obviously the wrong call

[LetzGoBuffalo]

I didn't love the call however the pressure got to Russ like they wanted and he heaved a prayer up to Sutton in which TJ just got slightly beat. Probably expected by MCD. Yes it was PI but sort of a borderline call. If that ball falls incomplete with no PI, is it still a bad play call by MCD? 

[harmonkillebrew]

12 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

If Taron doesn't interfere with Jeudy is it a bad call? 

Jeudy had him burned. if Wilson throws a better pass it's a TD.  

They should have bluffed the blitz and dropped Hamlin back as deep Safety to stop that.

It was 3rd and 10 and they were out of FG range. Even an 8 yd gain would have only yielded a very long FG attempt.

It was a foolhardy call.  

Didn't Gregg Williams get canned a few years ago for doing a zero blitz that lost the game?

[Mikie2times]

3 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

There’s the disconnect. This isn’t about McDermott to me. I’ve been solely speaking about the call itself. To be clear - it was not the identical call as the play before. Also, I’ve never said it was the only call that should be made there. I just want us (as a board) to get out of this mindset of “if a play doesn’t work it was a bad call” mentality. Or at the very least be able to back up why it was a bad call from a schematic/situational standpoint.

 

And to be very clear Russ threw up a prayer - all you guys saying the rainbow was intentional to draw a flag are hilarious.

I don't like cover zero when you need to defend 10 yards with the game on the line and you just ran a very successful cover 0 blitz.

 

To voluntarily script Denver into either a quick slant or tossing that ball up. Limit the options to an easy decision revolving around purely a 1 on 1 match up that we don't have the edge on. It was one thing when they had field goal range and we had some element of surprise. Neither was the case on that play.  I think we can create better odds than that on 3rd and 10. So I don't agree with call and I cursed it prior to the end of the play. The actual truth is nobody has enough data on game ending back to back cover 0's in that down and distance. So either side is fairly limited in the discussion. It's more about what people think is logical or not logical. A simulated pressure after the prior play, in my opinion, would have confused Wilson. We got home in a fraction of a second the play prior. He was going to look to unload that pass quick.  

[ngbills]

14 hours ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

I wholeheartedly agree that Sean needs to be replaced and the second blitz in a row, at the end of the game, seals it for me. This was a legitimately terrible defensive play call. Period. Sean is the DC. End of story. He, unlike previous seasons, has no one to blame. It’s on him and he was outsmarted by a very talented coach and very experienced QB. This is a microcosm of Sean’s time as HC. I wish to be succinct, so that’s it. 

One of the worst calls I have ever seen. 

[leonbus23]

5 hours ago, NoSaint said:

that’s the thing. Payton lined up his WRs and tod them to go deep. Russ was told if it’s a jailhouse break ID a matchup off the line and heaven it. If they slowed down the blitz at all it’s a TD because we aren’t wining that battle with all 4 corners on an island. In the end the offense knew the assignment and executed it. If it doesn’t work out they have another snap. 
 

the real win was anything short that left a looooong kick to either lose the game or get the ball back with timeouts to get our own win. 

 

I think this is the main point. Payton set up a play for an all out blitz. For some reason, he had the inclination that McD would send the blitz again, and he was ready. 

 

In that situation, Payton having prepared Russ for the blitz gave Denver a chance. 

 

Since Payton prepared his team for the blitz, as soon as Russ got the ball he threw it up. 

 

This reminds me of when Greg Williams called two consecutive all out blitzes against the Raiders. The Raiders blew the first chance, but were ready on the second one and hit the pass and won the game. 

 

The point is that if the opposing coach thinks the blitz is coming, he can get his team ready for it, which Payton did. It seems like it is always better to know what your opponent is doing in advance and set something up to counter it. 

Raiders Win

Edited November 15, 2023 by leonbus23