Bills @ Patriots Post game thread

[Low Positive]

12 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

He’s ramping up to playing the game again. You can’t really do that in practice these days so he sees spot duty until then. He appears to be at least another month away. 

I agree, but he played 27 snaps last week and only 6 this week. Maybe there's some soreness or some other setback. 

[Solomon Grundy]

27 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

 

I still cannot believe that the defense gave up long TD drives to start the game and to end the game, failing to hold a lead. 

 

I saw Dorian make a few errors in assignment, then he was out, poof.  They got worse without him.  

 

I understand that Oliver and D Jones were out but what about our edge rush?   Von Miller did not contribute.  Epenesa  and Floyd were both also MIA.   Did Eppy even dress for the game?  

I really don't understand how McDermott nitpick on Williams and Elam's play and relegate them to the bench, but continue to play Dodson and Dane who looks worse🤷

[Success]

We'll beat the Pats in Buffalo, if both teams stay relatively healthy from here on out.  But I definitely want that to be a blowout now.

 

[ndirish1978]

15 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

At some point some fans will need to actually come to terms with Allen simply playing poorly.

 

Making bad choices where to go with the ball, staring down receivers and throwing INTs, dirting easy passes, and air mailing passes out of bounds or overthrowing receivers that are wide open down field.

 

It's not all Allen and Dorsey can do a better job with some situational calls and personnel packages and some players have to execute better.

 

However when players are schemed open and Allen just can't hit those passes that is not on your OC or the plays called 

 

At some point you should read what was written and realize I am blaming both the playcaller and the player. Running the ball and the threat of running is a major weapon for Josh, that has been schemed out of the playbook and he has been admonished over and over to stop freelancing and he chose to listen to that stupid bit of advice. He has poor judgment as it is but now we've removed half of his ability to create wow plays to make up for the boneheaded ints he throws. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

5 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

I think no Big Ed and obviously Jones was huge. Ed has been a terror, getting pressure in the middle which turns into the ends getting sacks. 

 

Also Dodson killed us. Was a noticeable difference without Dorian, I have no clue what happened to him but we need him. Kid is legit, no Milano but he's good

Also, Josh was throwing high or low on many passes, some were caught but the throw prevented any yac. 

He wasnt very good. Wouldn't be surprised if he was pulled due to performance 

[SWATeam]

2 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

At some point you should read what was written and realize I am blaming both the playcaller and the player. Running the ball and the threat of running is a major weapon for Josh, that has been schemed out of the playbook and he has been admonished over and over to stop freelancing and he chose to listen to that stupid bit of advice. He has poor judgment as it is but now we've removed half of his ability to create wow plays to make up for the boneheaded ints he throws. 

I'm sick of wow plays.  I want to see the average play made consistently.  On time and on schedule.

[WideNine]

7 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

At some point you should read what was written and realize I am blaming both the playcaller and the player. Running the ball and the threat of running is a major weapon for Josh, that has been schemed out of the playbook and he has been admonished over and over to stop freelancing and he chose to listen to that stupid bit of advice. He has poor judgment as it is but now we've removed half of his ability to create wow plays to make up for the boneheaded ints he throws. 

 

If the only way for Josh to be effective is for the team to scheme runs for him then that is a QB ability ceiling that rarely leads to good outcomes.

 

The reason Josh can't roll out at will (to the right like he did for a few seasons) is that defenses know the tendencies and have counter measures for him and our scramble drills for receivers.

 

Those off schedule things were never in the playbook to begin with to be schemed out. The league defenses adjusted and they became less effective. As they usually do when countering the tendencies of mobile QBs overly reliant on their legs.

 

Now if you are mobile, can roll out either side, extend plays, and are accurate, then that is a different story.

 

That kind of QB play takes a lot of off season work, practice, and the right baseline talent.

 

Some QBs just don't have the pocket presence or athletic ability to evade the rush and extend plays. Allen does, but his accuracy has been all over the place.

 

This narrative of Allen being locked into the pocket and handcuffed by the coaching staff is delusional.

 

Is he being asked to go through progressions and hit the open receiver on schedule? Probably, but so is every other NFL level QB. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by WideNine

[CincyBillsFan]

17 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

If the only way for Josh to be effective is for the team to scheme runs for him then that is a QB ability ceiling that rarely leads to good outcomes.

 

The reason Josh can't roll out at will (to the right like he did for a few seasons) is that defenses know the tendencies and have counter measures for him and our scramble drills for receivers.

 

Those off schedule things were never in the playbook to begin with to be schemed out. The league defenses adjusted and they became less effective. As they usually do when countering the tendencies of mobile QBs overly reliant on their legs.

 

Now if you are mobile, can roll out either side, extend plays, and are accurate, then that is a different story.

 

That kind of QB play takes a lot of off season work, practice, and the right baseline talent.

 

Some QBs just don't have the pocket presence to evade the rush and extend plays. Allen does, but his accuracy has been all over the place.

 

This narrative of Allen being locked into the pocket and handcuffed by the coaching staff is delusional.

 

Is he being asked to go through progressions and hit the open receiver on schedule? Probably, but so is every other NFL level QB. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We are over thinking this.  What is hamstringing Allen is a bad O line and mediocre play makers not named Diggs.  Watching what other teams put around their elite or just very good QB's clearly highlights just how poorly the Bills have been at doing this. 

 

Maybe the reality is that what we're seeing is the best Allen and this offense can be as currently structured & coached. A top 10 unit by the stat measures that count (points & yards) but never fully realizing the potential of the great QB at the helm.  Allen & the Bills offense is looking more and more like Herbert & the Chargers.  It's plain to see and we all know the common denominator.

 

 

[BuffaloBillies]

As bad as the lines were (among others), these 5 plays changed everything. Imagine if they (all or some) went our way...

 

PENALTY             3 & Goal - BUF 8

(0:06 - 1st) J.Allen pass short middle to D.Knox for 8 yards - TOUCHDOWN NULLIFIED by Penalty. PENALTY on BUF-L.Murray - Offensive Pass Interference - 10 yards - enforced at NE 8 - No Play.

 

NO GOOD          4 & 16 - BUF 24

(1:55 - 2nd) T.Bass 42 yard field goal is No Good - Wide Right - Center-R.Ferguson - Holder-S.Martin.

 

NO GAIN            4 & 2 - BUF 33

(13:50 - 4th) J.Allen pass incomplete short right to D.Knox (J.Bentley).

 

PENALTY             3 & 3 - NE 33

(11:45 - 4th) M.Jones sacked at BUF 39 for -6 yards (L.Floyd). FUMBLES (L.Floyd) [L.Floyd] - recovered by NE-M.Onwenu at BUF 40. PENALTY on BUF-Ta.Johnson - Illegal Contact - 5 yards - enforced at BUF 33 - No Play.

 

+34 YD  1 & 10 - NE 25

(1:58 - 4th) M.Jones pass short right to R.Stevenson pushed ob at BUF 41 for 34 yards (T.Bernard).

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Bob in STL said:

 

I still cannot believe that the defense gave up long TD drives to start the game and to end the game, failing to hold a lead. 

 

I saw Dorian make a few errors in assignment, then he was out, poof.  They got worse without him.  

 

I understand that Oliver and D Jones were out but what about our edge rush?   Von Miller did not contribute.  Epenesa  and Floyd were both also MIA.   Did Eppy even dress for the game?  

Eppy almost had a sack on the last Patriots drive but only time I saw him. I still haven't seen or heard Poona's name once all season.

[WideNine]

42 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Eppy almost had a sack on the last Patriots drive but only time I saw him. I still haven't seen or heard Poona's name once all season.

 

He was in on one stop he chased down early when Settle got blown out of his gap.

 

Much of the yards we gave up were outside the tackles.

 

Looked like the Pats had two helmets on him when he was in and he was not giving up too much ground.

 

There was so much crap going on elsewhere that I did not like that I stopped looking for Poona plays.

 

Like Dane playing 15 yards off a receiver the Pats called up from their practice squad to give up an easy 1st down conversion or completely whiffing on an end around tackle.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by WideNine

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

This is 100% on scheme. You have to have ways to switch off routes in man coverage vs bunch sets.

 

That same kind of "pick" we were flagged on for the Knox nullified TD.

 

Folks don't like to look or mention officiating, but it did impact this game and the Bills' ability to move the ball, score, and kept NE drives alive.

 

Hate to watch games like that.

 

 

[HoofHearted]

15 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

That same kind of "pick" we were flagged on for the Knox nullified TD.

 

Folks don't like to look or mention officiating, but it did impact this game and the Bills' ability to move the ball, score, and kept NE drives alive.

 

Hate to watch games like that.

 

 

No it's not. Murray ran square into the guy without turning his head. New England didn't even touch any of our guys - we picked ourselves because we weren't playing any version of in/out man coverage you'd like.

[HoofHearted]

3 hours ago, Dukestreetking said:

@HoofHearted question/request:

 

If/when you get a chance, can you do 'Line/QB Pass error analysis" for this game? Always interesting, helpful...realize it's probably time-consuming.

 

May be available already in the many threads, but haven't seen it. Thanks.

Sure, once the A22 comes out I can.

[WideNine]

33 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

No it's not. Murray ran square into the guy without turning his head. New England didn't even touch any of our guys - we picked ourselves because we weren't playing any version of in/out man coverage you'd like.

 

I watched that replay and he made contact with both 25 and 7. He knocked 25 to the ground.

 

I believe they could have called offensive PI if that contact happens more than a yard beyond the LOS.  

 

My point earlier in this thread on our pick plays was that our receivers don't get their heads around, don't look like they continue their "route", and throw their arms up in mock innocence which is begging for a flag.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob in STL]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

He was in on one stop he chased down early when Settle got blown out of his gap.

 

Much of the yards we gave up were outside the tackles.

 

Looked like the Pats had two helmets on him when he was in and he was not giving up too much ground.

 

There was so much crap going on elsewhere that I did not like that I stopped looking for Poona plays.

 

Like Dane playing 15 yards off a receiver the Pats called up from their practice squad to give up an easy 1st down conversion or completely whiffing on an end around tackle.

 

 

Dane was terrible yesterday, just plain terrible.  

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

He was in on one stop he chased down early when Settle got blown out of his gap.

 

Much of the yards we gave up were outside the tackles.

 

Looked like the Pats had two helmets on him when he was in and he was not giving up too much ground.

 

There was so much crap going on elsewhere that I did not like that I stopped looking for Poona plays.

 

Like Dane playing 15 yards off a receiver the Pats called up from their practice squad to give up an easy 1st down conversion or completely whiffing on an end around tackle.

 

 

Dane and Taron had horrible days, Poyer made up for his with forcing the fumble. 

[Success]

A minor pet peeve - yesterday was the warmest handshake BB has given McD.

 

He's usually pretty quick & gruff, but he actually pulled McD in for a quick hug and said a few things this time.

 

It's what we know about him:  he's just a sore loser.  Anyone can be gracious when they win.

 

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, Bob in STL said:

Looking like the 12 formation is not effective.  We still do not run good enough, even with 2 TE's.   

 

Our #2 WR does not contribute and #88 drops a key pass every game.  

 

The offensive talent does not scare anyone.  Keys to stopping them are well known:

 

 Double Diggs + keep Allen from running + make him be patient with short passes + blitz on the right side of the OL =>  the Bills will beat themselves.  

Shakir might be moving into a bigger role on offense, which seems justified with his performance yesterday. Knox should be playing behind Kinkaid at this point. IMO. 

4 minutes ago, Success said:

A minor pet peeve - yesterday was the warmest handshake BB has given McD.

 

He's usually pretty quick & gruff, but he actually pulled McD in for a quick hug and said a few things this time.

 

It's what we know about him:  he's just a sore loser.  Anyone can be gracious when they win.

 

Well it was BB's 300th career win, am sure he was happy to finally get it. 

[Maine-iac]

I was at the game and it seemed like Josh missed a number of throws.  Watching the game now at home on DVR.  Some harder than others but Josh missed a few throws we've seen him make before.  The Pats came out running the ball down our throats.  Not really surprising given our injuries but I have to wonder if they didn't try to coach around our inability to stop the run and in turn got Mac Jones going.  Totally reminded me of Cinci last year.  Can't stop the run and as a consequence makes the pass that much harder to defend.  Not sure averaging 9 penalties a game (the last 3 games) is helping either.