Gabe Davis vs. Expected #2 WR Capabilities

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I don't even think Dorsey knows what this offense is trying to do.  He needs to go.  He is not a good OC. What I do know is they are emphasising taking Josh out of Josh.  He no longer just takes off with the ball when he sees he can clearly grab 10-20 yards with his own legs.  Coaching staff is too afraid of Cam Newton.  They also are actively taking away Josh risk throws that yes... sometimes hurt us but more often than not is a superstar play and what made this pathetic offensive system work.  Those are the two things that Josh is special at that makes him elite.  The same two things the coaching staff took out of him to try and turn him into Tom Brady which is not what he is special at.  Nor do we have the players or play design to make that offense work.

 

I would not disagree, particularly with that bolded part.  

 

I'll add that I have no idea why McD continues to get a pass for the offensive issues, essentially by virtue and implication that he's a "defensive minded coach."  

 

He needs to be a complete head coach or go do something else.  I expressed elsewhere in the last 24 that it's nice that he's brought us out of the drought doldrums, but how long is he going to live on that reputation without delivering the next level.  It's run its course.  It's a rhetorical question, but he's the head coach, there ought to be some responsibility associated with the whole enchilada, not just half of it.  The last time I checked, that was the responsibility of head coach.  

 

 

[ProcessTruster]

7 hours ago, Billl said:

Davis has one thing going for him that Bills fans are going to miss next year, and that’s his contract.  He might not be a great #2, but he’s decent at worst.  He’s probably a $12 million a year player, and he’s earning peanuts.  There’s value in filling a position on the cheap and freeing up cap space to be allocated elsewhere.

Yeah, the Gabe haters won't need to worry about him as he won't be signed. 

 

Draft is deep at WR this so I'm sure Beane will keep the $12-15m and draft a guy. 

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

So basically, Gabe is a deep ball specialist one trick pony in an offense that wants to now play dink and dunk.

 

 

Um, no. wrong for many reasons.

 

First, he's not a one-trick pony, the idea's dumb. He does a lot with deep and intermediate routes, with sideline routes, and with getting open when Allen extends plays.

 

Second, this isn't an offense that wants to play dink and dunk, it's an offense that wants to be multi-faceted, and having a deep threat is useful in any offense except an offense that never throws deep. We are not an offense that never throws deep. They certainly want to be able to dink and dunk, and having a deep threat helps that by opening things up underneath on plays when they want to go there.

 

Third, he's not a deep ball specialist. He catches quite a few more intermediate routes than deep ones.

[Wayne Cubed]

8 hours ago, FireChans said:

Gabe Davis being that high in yards and TD/1D and middle of the road in targets goes to show his relatively high end deep threat ability.

 

I will continue to say that most folks want to surround Allen with a safer option from an "always open" perspective.

 

I think the ideal Bills offense is Diggs moving around, Davis deep threat on the boundary, and a slot WR chain mover so we get 3rd and 2 instead of 3rd and 9 on a completion if the first two aren't open.

 

Really, Davis is WR2 AND 3 in this offense, because there is no WR3, and that's where a lot of his critics hit him.

 

I think how the offense was run in 2020 and 2021 supports this. Beasley was that guy. And they even admitted to the mistake last year and brought a haggered Beasley back. Six games in this season and they have once again, not found that WR3 or someone Allen trusts as a WR3.

[Dunkirk Donski]

22 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Um, no. wrong for many reasons.

 

First, he's not a one-trick pony, the idea's dumb. He does a lot with deep and intermediate routes, with sideline routes, and with getting open when Allen extends plays.

 

Second, this isn't an offense that wants to play dink and dunk, it's an offense that wants to be multi-faceted, and having a deep threat is useful in any offense except an offense that never throws deep. We are not an offense that never throws deep. They certainly want to be able to dink and dunk, and having a deep threat helps that by opening things up underneath on plays when they want to go there.

 

Third, he's not a deep ball specialist. He catches quite a few more intermediate routes than deep ones.

I found Dorsey’s burner account 😎🫵🏻

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

I would not disagree, particularly with that bolded part.  

 

I'll add that I have no idea why McD continues to get a pass for the offensive issues, essentially by virtue and implication that he's a "defensive minded coach."  

 

He needs to be a complete head coach or go do something else.  I expressed elsewhere in the last 24 that it's nice that he's brought us out of the drought doldrums, but how long is he going to live on that reputation without delivering the next level.  It's run its course.  It's a rhetorical question, but he's the head coach, there ought to be some responsibility associated with the whole enchilada, not just half of it.  The last time I checked, that was the responsibility of head coach.  

 

 

 

 

What offensive issues is he getting a pass for?

 

A lack of perfection? The inconsistency which every team in NFL history shares?

 

Or is it the being in the top five in points and yards every year since 2020? Including this year?

 

Is that the thing that's the responsibility of the head coach?

[Donuts and Doritos]

The improved Catch % is huge. 54% last year 70% this year. My biggest issue w/ him was the low catch%, which he's improved.

[Chandler#81]

No 2nd contract warranted. Trade him now or Kick hizazz to the curb.

[BananaB]

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

Yes, but he ain't the WR3 in this offense yet. Hopefully he will be eventually.

This is a good point. I’m all for getting a better #2 than Gabe, just find him very inconsistent. We don’t really have a 3rd WR either right now and just getting one those could help Davis as well. 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, FireChans said:

Meh, I read a lot about how Sherfield and Harty were upgrades in the WR room.  Hope always springs eternal in Bills land when the JAG deck chairs are rearranged.

 

I think they are upgrades from Kumerow an injured Crowder and the corpses of Brown and Beasley's careers. But they only upgraded the floor of the wide receiver room. They never did anything for its ceiling (although I confess I had higher hopes for Harty, he just doesn't seem to have the pop I remember from his Harris days).

[Trogdor]

7 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

So basically, Gabe is a deep ball specialist one trick pony in an offense that wants to now play dink and dunk.

He also blocks well which they value. So well that they use him like a TE instead of the threat he is. 

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

 

Really, Davis is WR2 AND 3 in this offense, because there is no WR3, and that's where a lot of his critics hit him.

 

 

 

 

Where are all the teams with the highly productive #3 WRs you folks are talking about?

 

Beckham with the Ravens with 113 yards?

Miami with Berrios with 179 yards?

The Jets with Cobb at 20 yards?

The Pats with DaVante Parker with 136 yards?

The Browns with People's-Jones at 75 yards?

The Steelers with Allen Robinson with 137?

The Bengals with Tee Higgins with 149? I was actually pretty surprised there, expected that to be higher.

The Jags with Zay Jones at 78?

The Colts with Alec Pierce at 149?

The Texans with Robert Woods at 227?

The Titans with Chris Moore with 140?

The Raiders with Hunter Renfrow at 59 yards?

The Chiefs with Skyy Moore with 145?

The Raiders with Hunter Renfrow with 59?

The Broncos with Jerry Jeudy with 222?

 

That's all of the high-powered AFC, folks!! Who stands out there beyond Bobby Trees with 227  and Jerry Jeudy with 222? Wanna throw in Berrios at 179?

 

You're living in a fantasy universe where all the #3 receivers are these wildly productive creatures. When you add in the TEs and RBs beyond each team's top two receivers, there just aren't that many balls to go around.

 

Particularly for a team making a move towards running two TEs so much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

It looks to me that you are interpreting this to mean this is what they wanted.  I believe they investigated getting OBJ and DHop as possible upgrades. 

 

And you can have all the stats in the world but playing the WR2 in the Bills offense is a golden opportunity.  Kind of like the opportunity Singletary had as RB, average-ish players can put up good stats because of the usage.  Excellent players would excel with this opportunity.

 

 

cool.  why don't they just go out and get some excellent players?

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

Yeah, the Gabe haters won't need to worry about him as he won't be signed. 

 

Draft is deep at WR this so I'm sure Beane will keep the $12-15m and draft a guy. 

 

 

That's one possibility. Otherwise, though, he could be signed.

 

Basically, we just don't really know, either way.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Thurman#1

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Where are all the teams with the highly productive #3 WRs you folks are talking about?

 

Beckham with the Ravens with 113 yards?

Miami with Berrios with 179 yards?

The Jets with Cobb at 20 yards?

The Pats with DaVante Parker with 136 yards?

The Browns with People's-Jones at 75 yards?

The Steelers with Allen Robinson with 137?

The Bengals with Tee Higgins with 149? I was actually pretty surprised there, expected that to be higher.

The Jags with Zay Jones at 78?

The Colts with Alec Pierce at 149?

The Texans with Robert Woods at 227?

The Titans with Chris Moore with 140?

The Raiders with Hunter Renfrow at 59 yards?

The Chiefs with Skyy Moore with 145?

The Raiders with Hunter Renfrow with 59?

The Broncos with Jerry Jeudy with 222?

 

That's all of the high-powered AFC, folks!! Who stands out there beyond Bobby Trees with 227  and Jerry Jeudy with 222? Wanna throw in Berrios at 179?

 

You're living in a fantasy universe where all the #3 receivers are these wildly productive creatures. When you add in the TEs and RBs beyond each team's top two receivers, there just aren't that many balls to go around.

 

Particularly for a team making a move towards running two TEs so much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go look at 2020’s numbers. 
 

thanks.

 

”Living in fantasy land” except the Bills had 3 productive receivers like 3 years ago lmao

Edited October 17, 2023 by FireChans

[BuffaloRebound]

Hard to compare WR’s on different teams and offenses.  I think at least 50% of those number 2’s would be more dynamic and dependable than Davis with Josh throwing to them and Diggs commanding the defense’s attention. And part of the problem with Davis is Knox.  You can’t have 2 of your top 3-4 pass catchers who kill drives with drops.  Maybe the answer is Kincaid starts becoming that guy opposite Diggs.  Davis and Knox don’t scare defenses.  

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

What offensive issues is he getting a pass for?

 

Speaking for myself, he's getting a pass for any issues that have existed in the offense whatsoever.  In support of that, there haven't been many times, none that I recall off-hand, that he's been held accountable by fans or media for any significant issues related to the offense.  The schtick is always "he's a defensive-minded coach" and the rest has befallen either Dorsey, Daboll, or Allen.  ... or Davis I suppose, the evil one.  LOL   Mostly joking on that last one.   

 

 

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

A lack of perfection? The inconsistency which every team in NFL history shares?

 

No team in the history of the NFL has been perfect, ever.  To start, "perfection" is your choice of words.  I didn't use it.  Also, I'm assuming that this is still in the context of the string here, namely re: the offense at present, so I'll refer solely to the offense per above, and I'm also assuming that you're still referring to my comments on McD, not Dorsey.  

 

So in that vein, I'll ask you, do you think that the team's offense is being optimized? 

 

Does the word innovative come to mind at all when you think of our offense?  

 

How about resourceful?  

 

How do you think it would be performing, relative to other teams that would have comparable talent if Allen went down?  

 

To me those are the questions that we, and frankly, the coaching staff from McD on down, shouild be asking.  Instead, and once again, speaking for myself, it seems that the team is largely resting on the abilities of Allen to carry the offense, and by that I mean more than is typically asked from a QB, even the best ones.  

 

 

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Or is it the being in the top five in points and yards every year since 2020? Including this year?

 

Top 5?  With Allen?  

 

To start, I'll defer to the above that I just answered for this.  I'm also slightly confused.  Or is it ... what?  

 

We had the #1 and #2 ranked defenses in the league the past two seasons, but then gave up points in the playoffs equating to the 32nd (DFL) ranking.  So regular season rankings don't always mean very much.  

 

But you've been competitive before, so allow me to ask;  when you reach a plateau in a competitive element, even not in sports but something else, do you tell yourself, that's good, I'm satisfied with this status, even if you know that it could be better?  

 

Again, per above, do you think that McD's team is doing the best that it can with the offensive talent that we have?  Has it peaked with it?  

 

Take KC for example, I see Reid/Mahomes doing everything that he can with a cast of WRs after Kelce that at best are a bunch of JAGs.  IMO they're overachieving with the crap that they call a WR corps over there.  Are we overachieving with what we have?  

 

 

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Is that the thing that's the responsibility of the head coach?

 

I thought that the entire team and it's functioning was the responsibility of the head coach.  Am I off?  
 

In your view, does McD bear any responsibility at all for the play of the offense?  

 

If so, to what extent or with what limitations?  

 

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that it were the offense holding the team back from winning it all, but for the reason that we were not getting the most from the offensive roster that we have.  Whose lap would you drop that in ultimately, having had two different OCs that is?  

 

 

[gjv]

Gabe Davis's strength is his ability to track and secure the long ball. In the Bills scheme, I don't know if that is or isn't the most important characteristic for their number two receiver. I will say this, I think the Bills miss two elements in their passing game; a Beasley-type slot receiver and a reliable tight end.

[Heels20X6]

3 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

I think how the offense was run in 2020 and 2021 supports this. Beasley was that guy. And they even admitted to the mistake last year and brought a haggered Beasley back. Six games in this season and they have once again, not found that WR3 or someone Allen trusts as a WR3.

 

I believe WR3 was supposed to be Deonte Harty but him and Josh haven't fully developed chemistry yet.  He was used more in the Giants game so hopefully that's a sign of things to come.

Saints fans praised Harty, said he was a "swiss army knife" option.  I think it's another case of Dorsey not maximizing the weapons he has in this offence.

[dpberr]

The problem is that the Bills forget Gabe Davis plays for the team.  Gabe Davis is a good WR.  He doesn't get enough passes thrown his way.  

 

Majority of the time he's out there blocking or doing whatever.  Looking at last season's stats, he averages a mere 5 targets a game. 

 

Only two games did he hit 10 targets.  He went over 100 yards just twice - once in the regular season and in the Miami playoff game, both games where the Bills were forced, against their will, to distribute the ball.