GoBills808 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, Motorin' said: Tell me you don't know how to interpret statistics without telling me you don't know how to interpret statistics. And there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow too! it doesn't require an interpretation lol dont stress yourself out over it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Just now, GoBills808 said: it doesn't require an interpretation lol dont stress yourself out over it It is just another that will not accept the reality. That a Running Game has ZERO correlation to the effectiveness of the PA pass. Cannot get past all the coachisms on this and see the reality based off math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: it doesn't require an interpretation lol dont stress yourself out over it Byeeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 16 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said: What seems to matter (and would like to see some data) is if the formation is under center or not. My thought is under center the ball gets hidden better and thus the LBs come a bit further forward. I also suspect a down and distance aspect to this. 3 & 10 is not gonna bring the LBs up as much as 3 & 3. Under center or not - a mesh action is going to hold any defender keying the mesh a split second. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Just now, MAJBobby said: It is just another that will not accept the reality. That a Running Game has ZERO correlation to the effectiveness of the PA pass. Cannot get past all the coachisms on this and see the reality based off math. OMG, these people who think math is the real world, instead of an approximate of specific circumstances at specific moments. Probably still the people that insist math is broken because Josh Allen was able to complete mor Ethan 50% of his passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Just now, Motorin' said: OMG, these people who think math is the real world, instead of an approximate of specific circumstances at specific moments. Probably still the people that insist math is broken because Josh Allen was able to complete mor Ethan 50% of his passes. https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/18/nfl-analytics-study-running-the-ball-play-action-success-mike-mccarthy-dallas-cowboys/ go ahead and learn that your coachism is JUST that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 14 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: I've always hated the shotgun draw. It completely neutralizes the speed of Cook. Now with 3 different rbs, we have the luxury to freeze lbs and take a few shots downfield. We as fans have been screaming for it (along with more motion) and its finally happening. Hats off to Dorsey & McD recognizing this missing piece. "the shotgun draw" 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 18 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: Under center or not - a mesh action is going to hold any defender keying the mesh a split second. Sure but I guess which holds the defender longer. seems a bit harder to find the ball when one player could be running the opposite direction from the RB (versus standing next to them or not running as fast) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 fun thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 2, 2023 Author Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said: I posted last week he needed to be under center a lot more and got blasted for it. Don’t believe you lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 30 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said: Sure but I guess which holds the defender longer. seems a bit harder to find the ball when one player could be running the opposite direction from the RB (versus standing next to them or not running as fast) One player could be running the opposite direction from the RB out of gun too. The length of time it holds defenders depends on the action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnycage46 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Orlovsky (love him or hate him) has been beating this drum all season. He thinks the Bills are the best under-center play-action team in the league. Based on Allen's numbers in those scenarios, it's hard to argue against it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 2, 2023 Author Share Posted October 2, 2023 56 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: it doesn't require an interpretation lol dont stress yourself out over it Folks wonder why NFL coaches don’t play the numbers more when we have people among us who deny reality everyday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Play action helps the OL. It’s definitely working. Teams will adjust to it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Motorin' said: There's a world of difference when the Bills utilize play action from under center when they have a viable run game that the defense has to worry about, versus never lining up under center and half assing play action out of shotgun to a running back the defense doesn't respect. IIRC, Thurman always forced the D to respect his ability to run out of shotgun—maybe we still can get back to that with the current stable as well? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Play-action makes me think back to the Kelly era days. When Van Miller started making the call that a play-action was unfolding, it was almost inevitable that Kelly was about to make a big play. I know “the game has changed”, but clearly this still works and especially for a guy with a rocket arm and wheels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, FireChans said: Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns. Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. Need Dorsey to keep that going. Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal. It's not but it still causes the linebackers to stay a split second longer before dropping back. That's why it's effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Hopkins Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Play action, pre-snap motion, and misdirection. The absolute keys the Dolphins offense. You know who else? Literally every offense in football. Defenses by nature are at a supreme disadvantage because they have to react to the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Running game improves when it's not a handoff from shotgun like it seemed to be primarily last couple seasons. I'd still like to see analytics to back it up, but that's one takeaway from yesterday with Josh under center more. Have to hope down the road that they'll take a couple more shots downfield. Even with Diggs and that long score yesterday, top 5 receivers averaging 11.6 yards per completion. Maybe that's working Kincaid more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Big Turk said: Rex Ryan said as much that whether you can run the ball or not makes no difference in terms of the success of play action because it causes a split second hesitation for the players to locate the ball and then they have to make a decision on what to do. That hesitation is going to happen no matter what and that is enough time for the offense to create separation or give Allen a little extra time to attack deep. Quoting Rex Ruin? Play action is MORE effective if a defense respects your running game and has to account for run defense. That should be a no-brainer. Play action to Derrick Henry made Tannehill look like a great QB because defenses had to respect that running ability and it created a lot of space to hit his receivers. Also, I think we do try some RPO plays, but those have to be strictly rule-based (QB triggers off a read) and clear on timing and execution for whether the QB hands it off or keeps it. Allen is notoriously greedy on those as I think he just feels better about the ball being in his hands to make something out of the play - the defensive reads be damned. So those exchanges result in some exaggerated and awkward handoffs that need to be cleaner. Edited October 2, 2023 by WideNine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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