The Bills biggest problem on offense remains unchanged

[Matt_In_NH]

Dude he wasn’t even the starter theee years ago to start the season.  He has had struggles but if that is the biggest problem it shows how good this roster is.  Show me a team without a hole.  
 

spencer has exceptional athletic ability and I think he has improved some but his torso is so long he gets off his center easily.  Maybe he is not the long term answer but the RT being an issue  is something that can be worked around.  You can’t have all pros everywhere and you have to rely on your ability to develop talent.  I will also point out josh holds the ball longer than most qbs and moves around a lot even when he does not need to.   He is difficult to block for

[Since1981]

9 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

 

I'd still like to see them acquire a "real" deep threat with reliable hands. 

 

Agreed. There is more than one way to improve. I’ll reiterate again.
 

 bills have 1 thing that sets them apart from 31 teams. Josh. His super power is a huge body and strongest arm in NFL.

 

A fast receiver accentuates this team super power. I don’t understand why this is so hard for mgt to grasp. Don’t need more D, don’t need FB….no punt gods. 

receiver = leverage team super power  

[Pete]

9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

All last season he was our worst  OLineman after Saffold. Now for 3 straight weeks he's still our lowest rated lineman. 

this doesn't make sense. 

 

Brown was second worst OL last year and still the worst

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Just don't agree with the OP. Brown has been good enough against good competition.  He's been better than Dawkins. 

 

 

That is simply not true. Dion got beat on a 3rd down on Sunday (I think by Chase Young) but it is like his only major lost rep in 3 games. He has been very good to start this season. Especially in pass protection.

[NewEra]

45 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I disagree that he isn’t playing well there are a lot of right tackles in the league they get that same kind of help
 

And he isn’t getting help on every play

I disagree, he isn’t “playing well”

 

better than a dumpster fire, sure.  

[Blackbeard]

I’m sure Brown being a weak link was a factor in bringing in Murray and Kincaid. 
 

It’s a tough position to find good personnel for.  

[John from Riverside]

46 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I disagree, he isn’t “playing well”

 

better than a dumpster fire, sure.  

But weren’t we expecting him to be a dumpster fire?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Uh oh, someone's been putting stock in pff grades again 

[Chaos]

43 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Uh oh, someone's been putting stock in pff grades again 

All 32 teams use PFF Team Services.  So do many NCAA programs.  You may want to consider marketing your "Pine Barrens Mafia Eye Test" as a replacement. You could save the NFL a lot of money that way. 

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I get the point several have made.  My point is there seems to be an effort to single guys out even before the season starts.  Brown is this year.  He’s not an All Pro but if you watched the game Sunday he did pretty good.  

 

before the season started, he was singled out because of his performance last year.

 

these aren't random comments people are making.

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I disagree that he isn’t playing well there are a lot of right tackles in the league they get that same kind of help
 

And he isn’t getting help on every play

John, he is this year's target.  Not much you can say to remove the target from his back.  He is not the best RT in the league, but not the worst either.  Good run blocker but given his size can be susceptible to getting off balance at times in pass protection.  Horrors.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

John, he is this year's target.  Not much you can say to remove the target from his back.  He is not the best RT in the league, but not the worst either.  Good run blocker but given his size can be susceptible to getting off balance at times in pass protection.  Horrors.

I mean it’s not the hill I’m gonna die on. I would also like to have an all pro it right tackle. Can someone please run down and get one of those from the Walmart for me please

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

before the season started, he was singled out because of his performance last year.

 

these aren't random comments people are making.

But if one actually watches the games thus far and focus in on him he is doing OK.  Like any guy in the league he got beat a couple times.  

 

You tell me, what should we be looking for in terms of performance?  No pressures or sacks given up?  There's a name for tackles like that:  HOFers.

[John from Riverside]

31 minutes ago, Chaos said:

All 32 teams use PFF Team Services.  So do many NCAA programs.  You may want to consider marketing your "Pine Barrens Mafia Eye Test" as a replacement. You could save the NFL a lot of money that way. 

PFF is sometimes full of ***** there. I said it.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I mean it’s not the hill I’m gonna die on. I would also like to have an all pro it right tackle. Can someone please run down and get one of those from the Walmart for me please

I think for RT's it's Target you go to, but I'd have to double check.

[Chaos]

There are three separate complaints in the original post 

1. Brown's play 
2. Beane's "failure to do anything about it".  
3. Dorsey's scheme to deal with the problem 

 

1. Brown's play -  Objectively his play is mediocre compared to NFL peers, not awful. 
2. Beane's failure to do anything about it.   I think this is not a reasonable complaint. There are only so many options.  And all options require speculation. For example, I was very high on Broderick Jones in the draft. He went 15th overall to the Steelers.  So far he has played four snaps this season.  Beane chose to improve the line in general, to alleviate some pressure on the Browns spot.  The McGovern and Torrence picks did this. He brought in veteran RBs skilled at blocking. 
3. Dorsey's scheme to deal with the weakness at right tackle.  - I am not sure what the alternative's are to the current scheme of using Kincaid, Knox, Murray and Harris to help.  Almost every NFL team has weaknesses on the offensive line.  What other schemes do teams use that are better than what Dorsey is doing? 

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

PFF is sometimes full of ***** there. I said it.

No statistical analysis is perfect.  Those that understand how to use and interpret the statistics understand that basic point. It does not mean the statistics are not useful.  But they are only useful to people that understand them. 

What problems do you see in the PFF analysis of the top four AFCs tackles I posted in the thread? That would be the main relevent point here. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

There are three separate complaints in the original post 

1. Brown's play 
2. Beane's "failure to do anything about it".  
3. Dorsey's scheme to deal with the problem 

 

1. Brown's play -  Objectively his play is mediocre compared to NFL peers, not awful. 
2. Beane's failure to do anything about it.   I think this is not a reasonable complaint. There are only so many options.  And all options require speculation. For example, I was very high on Broderick Jones in the draft. He went 15th overall to the Steelers.  So far he has played four snaps this season.  Beane chose to improve the line in general, to alleviate some pressure on the Browns spot.  The McGovern and Torrence picks did this. He brought in veteran RBs skilled at blocking. 
3. Dorsey's scheme to deal with the weakness at right tackle.  - I am not sure what the alternative's are to the current scheme of using Kincaid, Knox, Murray and Harris to help.  Almost every NFL team has weaknesses on the offensive line.  What other schemes do teams use that are better than what Dorsey is doing? 

To address each of your points:

 

1.  Spot on.  He is good in run blocking, must continue to improve on pas protection.  

2.  Beane bought in Shell but he retired.  He then brought in Ifedi.  That's called addressing the position.  And if we had drafted a RT and then stayed with drafting Torrence in round 2 the complaints would be that nothing was done to give Allen more weapons.  

3.  None

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, harryS said:

 

The goal isn't to beat Washington.

 

Plus, criticism is sometimes best received after victory.  A win doesn't mean you're perfect.

I get all of that. It’s the timing of the thread that had me a little perplexed. We just throttled two NFL opponents in consecutive weeks in what could only be described as cakewalks by league standards…something we’re told is almost impossible to do because of the elite level of talent across the NFL. In neither of the last two games, even with the Bills facing REALLY good defensive lines on both the Raiders and WTFs, did the offensive line, including Brown, get repeatedly embarrassed. So once again, while we as fans can always find something to complain about, this seems like a really odd time to bring up what we all already know:

 

Yes, Spencer Brown is the weakest link on the Bills offensive line. 

[quinnearlysghost88]

12 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

0 sacks.

 

He’s had help, but he’s been ok. The fact he’s shown improvement thus far says let’s see how much improvement he continues to make over the season. 

The 0 sacks is because of the help. Again we’re pinning our TEs to the line instead of going out for passes to help. It’s handicapping us. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

The 0 sacks is because of the help. Again we’re pinning our TEs to the line instead of going out for passes to help. It’s handicapping us. 

It’s only a small sample size so far. The Bills have PURPOSELY game played to go up against some top level D Line teams in the Jets, Raiders and Commanders. Anyone know how the Dolphins D Line has been playing? (We’ve obviously all heard about their offense.)