Kurt Warner analysis of JA

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Does Hurts need Brown and Smith or Burrow need Chase and Higgins? Or San Fran need Samuel, Kittle, and Mcaffery?

Mahomes only needed Kelce and one leg. 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

Admittedly, I don’t know that much about NFL Xs and Os, but these seem like really lousy route concepts.  Dorsey should be embarrassed.

It all depends what you mean… 

 

running a high/low forcing 1 guy to cover two that are spread is a great test.

 

running a high/low allowing 1 guy to cover two guys clustered is a debacle 

[Billl]

14 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

God could you imagine if David had snapped that corner back to the post on a double move? The way the safety jumped that, he’d still be running.

Or what if Josh had thrown the ball to Diggs who was wide open right in front of Josh?  

[Dr.Sack]

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

This is embarrassing.  Josh was awful.  He needs to play better.

He was and there are dudes running open on underneath routes, but to Warner’s point the routes aren’t being run or taught correctly. Correct me if I’m wrong but shouldn’t Allen if he was more like Brady be bitching for them to be run to perfection?

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

Mahomes only needed Kelce and one leg. 

 

and Andy Reid, Juju, Pachecho.  He didn't have all world talent like when he had Kelce AND Hill, but not all his guys were scrubs either.  Those guys are all running an Andy Reid offense and they at least know how to run a route.  They have a running game when they have to and speed to get YAC.

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

Or what if Josh had thrown the ball to Diggs who was wide open right in front of Josh?  

 

Or what if Josh did what the play dictated he do based on defense.  Oh wait, he did.  Just that the receiver ran a crap route and Josh rushed the throw.

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

He was and there are dudes running open on underneath routes, but to Warner’s point the routes aren’t being run or taught correctly. Correct me if I’m wrong but shouldn’t Allen if he was more like Brady be bitching for them to be run to perfection?

No.  Josh made a terrible decision, and no amount of better route running by Gabe was going to change the fact that Diggs was completely unguarded right in front of Josh’s face.  Brady could demand excellence from his receivers because Brady made the right read 99% of the time.  That’s not Josh.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Billl

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

When there's open receivers, regardless of the reason, and Allen isn't under that much pressure that he doesn't have time to read/see them, and doesn't hit them and instead goes into double or triple coverage for an incompletion or INT, it's not the receivers.  

 

Send four out, hopefully one or two are open.  THAT'S the job, process which one quickly, pre-reading the D is key, and then hit that open WR.  

 

I don't know where the post is, but I specifically pointed out numerous times when that was exactly the case and Allen did not hit the open guy or even try.  And I included none where there would have been any chance of an INT whatsoever.  

 

 

It also gets old having everyone but McD get any of the blame for this.  

I think there are two issues in play.

 

1. Allen doesn't trust his oline and feels a need to bail out of the pocket early and play scramble football. 

 

2. I think Allen is having difficulty quickly reading defenses. 

[CincyBillsFan]

I expected Warner was going to eviscerate Allen. That he provides a very different perspective is interesting and in an odd way reassuring.  Improved route running can be more easily achieved then fixing Allen's potentially lost mojo.

 

 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

But the Bills are more than ok with continuing on with Spencer Brown at RT allowing pressure and sacks for a 3rd year now. 

Want til you see Max Crosby take him to the woodshed. Bills better have a plan to help out Brown. If not Crosby might have 5 sacks. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

I think there are two issues in play.

 

1. Allen doesn't trust his oline and feels a need to bail out of the pocket early and play scramble football. 

 

2. I think Allen is having difficulty quickly reading defenses. 

 

1. I agree with.  He doesn't trust his oline completely

2. I don't agree with.  The play in question... Diggs motioned.  Josh identified presnap correctly zone coverage. The read is Sauce.  Sauce was committing to Kincaid. The throw is to Davis. That was also quickly identified, read correctly. The outcome sucked but that was the correct read.

[newcam2012]

31 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

I'm not a fan of Dorsey and I think the play calling was bad, but how many videos of open receivers do you need to see? They invested in slot and he doesn't use them. Josh overlooked sure things for big plays against a defense specifically designed to stop big plays. 

Maybe someone with more knowledge can explain why the Bills didn't use the slot WRs more. I thought that was the best way to attack the Jet D. I expected to see a lot of quick short slants and crossing patterns. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

You're not understanding the concept of the play. Davis isn't double covered, he's supposed to split the zones of the CB and the safety. That's the whole point of the high/low post corner. In fact this play is exactly what everybody wants Allen to do - read the defense pre-snap, confirm the coverage post-snap, get the ball out right away based on the read. But none of that matters if the read is taken away by a lousy route concept and lousy execution.

 

I wasn't discussing a single play.  This isn't a "single play" issue.  

 

 

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Maybe someone with more knowledge can explain why the Bills didn't use the slot WRs more. I thought that was the best way to attack the Jet D. I expected to see a lot of quick short slants and crossing patterns. 

So did Dorsey.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

Davis particularly runs soft routes, doesn’t fight for the ball and when plays break down he tends to be not the most qb friendly guy. 
 

I really thought in addition to the ankle there was maybe some core injury. He just moved like a cruise ship sometimes last year… but he’s still just not a crisp mover 

No one said that either though. Needing and wanting are different.

That’s not true at all. Some Allen’s best throws have been on broken plays to Davis. 

[newcam2012]

7 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

1. I agree with.  He doesn't trust his oline completely

2. I don't agree with.  The play in question... Diggs motioned.  Josh identified presnap correctly zone coverage. The read is Sauce.  Sauce was committing to Kincaid. The throw is to Davis. That was also quickly identified, read correctly. The outcome sucked but that was the correct read.

I agree Scott but I wasn't talking about this single play. I was talking in general terms. 

 

I'm a big Allen fan but I'm starting to question his vision a little bite. I don't think all the turnovers are from trying to play hero ball. I think he might be have no trouble processing certain zone coverages. Maybe I'm wrong here but I'm starting to get that impression. Another poster talked about how he is slower to process defenses than other elite QBs. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

But the Bills are more than ok with continuing on with Spencer Brown at RT allowing pressure and sacks for a 3rd year now. 

It’s their first game as a unit against the damn Jets. Give them a bit to gel.

[Wayne Arnold]

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The issue is that Davis didn't necessarily cut too soon. Based on the other two examples Kurt Warner showed that is for some reason how Dorsey wants that concept run. It doesn't make any sense.

 

Allen is literally just following the concept of the play. Isn't that what everyone wants? If he messed anything up it's the ball placement but like Warner pointed out he is rushing the throw because of when Davis breaks.

 

Allen made a lot of mistakes in this game. This wasn't one of them.

 

 

You can tell by the way he throws the pass, it appears he's sort of surprised how quickly Davis broke and he didn't have a great stride throwing the ball and as a result he threw it short.

 

Maybe he's used to him running that route 10 yards and then this game they made an adjustment because they knew how much pressure the Jets front was going to cause so they wanted Allen to get the ball out quicker and therefore shorten certain routes.

[NoSaint]

Just now, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

That’s not true at all. Some Allen’s best throws have been on broken plays to Davis. 

That Allen’s tossed him a few amazing throws isn’t testament to him consistently moving where he should be and getting there on schedule for the qb needs when the play breaks down. 
 

he’s slower, lacking agility and doesn’t find the easiest zone for the qb in any consistent way. I’ve in fact watched him drift into really difficult windows frequently. Kind of like running the corner too short creating a harder through in this video, conceptually.

[78thealltimegreat]

25 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Mahomes only needed Kelce and one leg. 

Without Kelce he lost to the lions at home didn’t he 

[Franco_92]

49 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

What im taking out of this video is that we are playing about half a second too fast.....and all of that stems from poor protection.

 

Causes everyone to break out earlier, Josh to make his decision earlier. Its just a mess this organization failed to address for Allen's entire career. 

 

 

Statistically, the line gave allen time and a lack of pressures relative to the rest of the NFL this weekend. 

 

It was also against what will probably the best, or second best, defense in the league. 

 

Burrow does just fine without a line. Every aspect of the team was better than Josh Allen on Monday. I don't expect it to happen again, but that's what happened