Wizard Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Winning a Super Bowl takes care of these lists, and neither Allen or Diggs are egregiously ranked on this list heading into this year. Allen falls between 2-4 on most QB lists, and last year, he probably played the 4th best season at QB. Talent-wise and responsibility for his team success he’s #1. No complaints on Allen’s ranking. Diggs at #5 is reasonable. Most rationale fans would have him in the 3-7 range. The ranking of Cooper Kupp is only a surprise because of injury, otherwise, the year before he had an all-time level WR season. I personally would put Diggs at #4, but no real argument with people voting Jefferson, Hill, Chase, Kupp, or someone like Davante Adams ahead of him. Both are fairly ranked. Now, let’ see if we can get a Dalton Kincaid, James Cook, or O’Cyrus Torrence to join them in the top 100 in the next couple of years. Go Bills! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Give Josh the #1 ranked OL like the Eagles and he's #2 behind Mahomes. And the turnovers disappear. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 4 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said: For me it always will come back to the situation they ended up in. If you take Burrow and put him in Buffalo for last year...how many games do they win? With a rookie OC and Diggs his only great target...I don't see 13 wins. Maybe 11...10? Now put Allen in the Cincinnati offense. Offensive minded HC. Chase, Higgins, Boyd. Mixon with a run game. They (IMO) make the Super Bowl and win by 2 TDs. Now, Burrow has skill and is calm under pressure. But in no way shape or for can I see him even equal to Allen skill wise without the plush situation he landed in. The bottom line is qbs like Mahomes, Burrow, and Hurts all have a substantially better support system with offensive coaches, weapons and OL's better than the Bills. Josh has a mediocre OC, OL and after Diggs there's a big dropoff in weaponry. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 11 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said: More passing attempts, completions, yards, and touchdowns. Fewer interceptions and turnovers. Made a Super Bowl and AFC Championship games in back to back years. Have you put the Bills & Bengals Offenses side by side by an chance? Name me one unit other then QB where the Bills are as good as Cincinnati? I'll help you out: WR: Bengals much better then Bills TE: Bengals a little better then Bills RB: Bengals much better then Bills Oline: Bengals much better then Bills Also as GoBills808 points out. in TOTAL production: Allen: 5045 yards & 42 TD's Burrow: 4732 yards & 40 TD.s 11 hours ago, Airseven said: Reaching a Super Bowl is a distinguishing factor in separating the upper echelon. If Hurts is ranked #9-10, I bet his Super Bowl appearance was the trump card over Allen. WINNING a Super Bowl is a distinguishing factor; reaching a Super Bowl may or may not be one depending on the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Having Allen outside of the top 10 is just laughable. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeavercreekBillsFan Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 7 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: The bottom line is qbs like Mahomes, Burrow, and Hurts all have a substantially better support system with offensive coaches, weapons and OL's better than the Bills. Josh has a mediocre OC, OL and after Diggs there's a big dropoff in weaponry. This and I can’t stress this enough. We have our generational QB and we’ve failed him. Yes we’ve had good years but all because he lifts up the crap around him. It’s embarrassing that all we’ve given him is Diggs when good WRs are so damn easy to find. Our o line sucks, we haven’t properly invested in it. Josh runs for his life every single week. It’s crazy when you compare weapons that the other top guys have versus the crap josh is working with. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, arcane said: In the playoffs, Joe Burrow has played 7 games, Allen has played 8. Burrow has 10 TDs (9 pass, 1 run), Allen has 20 TDs (17 pass, 2 run, 1 catch). Allen has 5 turnovers, Burrow has 4. Allen's team's defense has gifted him 7 turnovers, Burrow's has gifted him 13. In Burrow's super bowl run the offense had 45 drives by my count, and scored 7 touchdowns. In 2021 alone, Josh Allen led the Bills offense to 12 touchdowns in 16 drives Burrow has led NO fourth quarter touchdown drives in 7 career postseason games I don't really want to hear about how "Burrow has made it to a Super Bowl and Allen hasn't" Allen probably has 2 super bowl wins if he was the Bengals QB for the 21 and 22 playoff runs. Burrow is overrated because of where he was drafted. Media always wants their opinion to be right, doesn’t matter what they done for you lately. Fact is there isn’t a player in the league who is asked to do as much for their team as Josh. Kid is a beast and under different circumstances he’d be the clear cut #1 player in the league. McD knows they hit gold so they have constantly neglected the O so he can beef up his D. Edited July 21, 2023 by BananaB 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 It would be very difficult to make a worse list than this, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 10 hours ago, Airseven said: Fair. If there’s more separation between them then more factors in play. The fact Allen is still gaffe prone after five seasons is a limiting factor. You’d think by now his ball security, decision making, accuracy/touch, and footwork (and composure) would be a little more polished. He’s still a rollercoaster. Fun, no doubt. But still goes off the cliff. Allen is gaffe prone? In 2022? I can think of only one game where you could say Allen was "gaffe prone" and that was against the Vikings. Unless you're calling any mistake evidence of being gaffe prone? As I recall, Mahomes threw 3 INT's against Denver last season and Burrow had that epic 5 TO game (including 4 INT's) against the Steelers in week 1. I can't recall a single game where Allen threw 3 INT's or had 5 TO's. Can you? The idea that Allen is "gaffe prone" or a "TO machine" is fake news. Allen has a few more TO's then the other two elite QB's (Mahomes & Burrow) but the difference isn't that great and in Allen's case is spread out. A more honest and accurate description is that Allen is forced to press more often then Burrow & Mahomes because he has less talent around him on offense then those two QB's have. This is a better explanation of the TO difference then one claiming Allen is "gaffe prone". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, Process said: It would be very difficult to make a worse list than this, lol They didn't even rank Jalen Hurts...the disrespect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Josh Allen’s turnovers are magnified more than any other player in the sport. The guy has 177 career touchdowns and he just turned 27. Josh Allen had one turnover against the bengals a last gasp heavy ho…he did not give up 30 first downs to the Bengals that was the other side of the ball. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 (edited) On 7/20/2023 at 6:40 PM, Mikie2times said: They have Rogers at 45 and Herbert at 35. That tells me this has nothing to do with positional value. Clearly Josh is easily a Top 10 and likely Top 5/3 with positional value. They have to have Burrow and Hurts ahead of him. Obviously Mahomes as well. I won’t argue Burrow, but I would disagree Hurts has shown enough. Let’s see him do it again this year. It's not even about what they have done. It's about what they are asked to do to make the offense be successful. Is anyone going to argue that Burrow or Hurts is asked to do more than Allen? No. Or at least they shouldn't. Both have skill positions that are loaded with 2 bonafide #1 WRs. Hurts has the best run game in the NFL along with one of the best OLs and two solid TEs also. Burrow has Mixon and Boyd to go with Chase and Higgins. Both those groups are far and away better than anything the Bills had last year. Sure we had Diggs but who else could they count on game in and game out? Nobody really. It was basically a random player who stepped up depending on the game. Sometimes Knox, sometimes Davis, sometimes Singletary, sometimes McKenzie...OK rarely McKenzie but he had a few moments. The one constant was that Allen did it all for us. Basically carried a load much heavier than the others. A load anyone outside of Mahomes would have faltered under. So yes...for me, I do have a problem with Allen not being the #2 QB. Neither Burrow or Hurts would be anywhere near what Allen would be if they were asked to do what he was. Edited July 22, 2023 by Big Turk 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 23 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Lol what has Burrow done to be ranked above Allen Ooh Ooh, Mr. Kotter, ... hIs passing metrics over the past two seasons have been better than Allen's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 21 minutes ago, PBF81 said: Ooh Ooh, Mr. Kotter, ... hIs passing metrics over the past two seasons have been better than Allen's. Interesting, which passing metrics are you referring to 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 On 7/20/2023 at 6:14 PM, Lost said: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff50-ranking-50-best-players-2023 Josh Allen is the second best QB ranked presumably behind Mahomes but still they don't see him as a top 10 player 🤯 Diggs is the 5 best receiver ranked. PFF is a joke. Look at the 11 players ranked ahead of Allen. If a GM was starting a team I see only 2 players who might be picked ahead of Allen. Honestly, I don't know why I'm commenting on this at all. These "experts" ranking players is a joke. I don't usually pay any attention to any of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 40 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Interesting, which passing metrics are you referring to The ones that Burrow is better than, the ones typically used to valuate QBs. Just look at 'em, if they're better than Josh's, those are the ones I'm referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 11 minutes ago, PBF81 said: The ones that Burrow is better than, the ones typically used to valuate QBs. Just look at 'em, if they're better than Josh's, those are the ones I'm referring to. What about the other ones, those don't count or something I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: What about the other ones, those don't count or something I suppose Are they more important? 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: What about the other ones, those don't count or something I suppose How do you measure QBs comparatively? What stats do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 1 minute ago, PBF81 said: Are they more important? How do you measure QBs comparatively? What stats do you use? I prefer adjusted net yards per attempt as it is the QB metric most closely correlated w wins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: I prefer adjusted net yards per attempt as it is the QB metric most closely correlated w wins So "wins" are predicated entirely upon the play of the QB insofar as ANY/A goes in your mind then? Question, is it possible for a QB to be good but the team not win as much as a team with a QB that isn't quite as good? If so, then why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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