Further Details About Gruden’s Leaked E-Mails

[thenorthremembers]

20 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Forgiven for being a bigot and a hypocrite?  I think not.   Howard Cosell left MNF voluntarily after the 1983 season because of the controversy resulting from a comment he made during a MNF broadcast in 1983 that was interpreted by many as racist (Cosell).   Three decades later, Gruden wrote/posted excrement that was blatantly racist, homophobic and misogynistic, even by standards of the 1980s.

 

 

I'm not sure what legal grounds Gruden has to sue the NFL over the emails.   Once you send an email to someone, the recipient can do whatever he/she wants to do with it just as if you sent that person a letter via "snail mail".  If these were sent to Snyder at an official Washington Commanders' email address, he absolutely had no expectation of privacy.   Those emails became the property of the team as soon as they hit the team's server(s).

 

 

When I was in high school more than half a century ago, one my teachers said something that always stuck in my mind:  never put down on paper anything you'd be ashamed for your mother to see.   Just add email and/or social media, and that's still a good rule to follow.  

Yes, if truly apologetic and taking steps to correct the behavior, he certainly deserves forgiveness.  I dont know if thats the case, but I know for certain I am human and have made terrible decisions and missteps in my life.   I would hope people would forgive me for mine, as such I try to forgive others for theirs.

[uticaclub]

21 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Forgiven for being a bigot and a hypocrite?  I think not.   Howard Cosell left MNF voluntarily after the 1983 season because of the controversy resulting from a comment he made during a MNF broadcast in 1983 that was interpreted by many as racist (Cosell).   Three decades later, Gruden wrote/posted excrement that was blatantly racist, homophobic and misogynistic, even by standards of the 1980s.

 

 

I'm not sure what legal grounds Gruden has to sue the NFL over the emails.   Once you send an email to someone, the recipient can do whatever he/she wants to do with it just as if you sent that person a letter via "snail mail".  If these were sent to Snyder at an official Washington Commanders' email address, he absolutely had no expectation of privacy.   Those emails became the property of the team as soon as they hit the team's server(s).

 

 

When I was in high school more than half a century ago, one my teachers said something that always stuck in my mind:  never put down on paper anything you'd be ashamed for your mother to see.   Just add email and/or social media, and that's still a good rule to follow.  

A lot of people’s mothers wouldn’t be ashamed with what Gruden said, just saying. Get an old lady liquored up and they are saying the same things. 

[JoPoy88]

18 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

I mean - coaches get fired all the time.  But for the league to expose private emails, force your boss to fire you wanting to stand up in the face of your issues, and tarnish your name, and legacy - thats a bit much.  

 

He has plenty of money, but now he can't work... College, Pros, TV - all of those places won't touch him.  So if it's determined that Snyder and the NFL released the emails on purpose, then he does have some standing that they intended to harm him.  

yeah haven’t read Gruden’s complaint so I really have no idea what Gruden’s claims are specifically nor would I speculate on his actual chances of winning his suit. I just want him to stick to his guns and not settle. I want all these characters: Rog, Snyder, Allen, Pash etc. in there testifying in open court.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

yeah haven’t read Gruden’s complaint so I really have no idea what Gruden’s claims are specifically nor would I speculate on his actual chances of winning his suit. I just want him to stick to his guns and not settle. I want all these characters: Rog, Snyder, Allen, Pash etc. in there testifying in open court.

That would be something to see, but the NFL is so wealthy that they can delay proceedings until Gruden is out of available funds to pursue his claims, which is the likely outcome. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Don Otreply

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

43 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

A lot of people’s mothers wouldn’t be ashamed with what Gruden said, just saying. Get an old lady liquored up and they are saying the same things. 

 

People see "racist, homophobic, sexist" in the article title and go straight to "he has to be cancelled" without allowing for any leeway. 

 

As far as the racist part goes I thought his emails were pretty mild: 

 

"Dumboriss Smith has lips the size of michellin (sic) tires."

 

Gruden's explanation:

 

Gruden, speaking separately to The Athletic, said he didn't remember the specifics of the email to Allen, and that he uses the term "rubber lips" to describe someone as a liar (a possible explanation for his comment on the size of Smith's lips). 

 

For the rest of it, looks like he was a fan of using the words q---r, f----t, or p---y as insults. 

 

All in all I don't think this was bad enough to force him to resign. Given these were what he thought were private emails sent 10 years ago when he wasn't even employed by the NFL I thought a public apology and maybe sensitivity training would've been enough of a punishment. 

 

My apologies if anything in the post runs afoul of this sites censorship rules. 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

That would be something to see, but the NFL is so wealthy that they can delay proceedings until Gruden is out of available funds to pursue his claims, which is the likely outcome. 

 

He had a 10 year contract and likely got paid most of it - the NFL has unlimited money but for them its better to settle and save face. 

[C.Biscuit97]

On 7/12/2023 at 4:51 PM, thenorthremembers said:

Thankfully Coaches and GMs are starting to become  aware that the game is more about being smart than it is about Oklahoma Drills and bashing one anothers heads in.

 

Gruden still had one foot in the old ways and being an idiot finally got him done in.   I think he deserves to be forgiven, what I don't think is anyone should be lining up to feel sorry for the guy.

The phrase Oklahoma drills triggers me haha. Nothing better than going away to Army’s campus for training camp for 10 days and 3 a day practices. But you could win a t shirt for good Oklahoma drill win though (still have one)! 
 

football is so easy now. 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

Gruden, speaking separately to The Athletic, said he didn't remember the specifics of the email to Allen, and that he uses the term "rubber lips" to describe someone as a liar (a possible explanation for his comment on the size of Smith's lips). 

This is first rate horse #*@#.  it doesn't even pass the smell test.

 

He's just a redneck from Sandusky who probably grew up in a household where the N word was routinely tossed about and it shaped his views.

 

There are MILLIONS of these people in this country. 

 

 

 

 

[Don Otreply]

14 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

He had a 10 year contract and likely got paid most of it - the NFL has unlimited money but for them its better to settle and save face. 

The outcome depends on the legal validity of Grudens claims, as to the NFL needing to save face…, not so sure that’s a big concern for them, 

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

That would be something to see, but the NFL is so wealthy that they can delay proceedings until Gruden is out of available funds to pursue his claims, which is the likely outcome. 

 

Micro$oft thought same thing. 

 

Internet Explorer was initially supposed to be called Internet Exploder to compete against Netscape.

Marketing including logo was completely designed and campaign was ongoing.

When it was tested testers pointed out then when it crashed it they said "It Exploded".

They changed name to "Internet Explorer" and missed in trademark check that name was already trademarked in use.

They tried to sue owner saying it was a infringement on their copyright repeatedly appealing to try to exhaust his money but some came forward to support him.

Eventually court ruled M$ could no longer appeal and pay copyright owner damages and court costs.

M$ finally did it and then paid for license of name as well.

 

This is a case where the plaintiff may get support from for his argument while he is continuing to pursue his claims.

[SoTier]

9 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Yes, if truly apologetic and taking steps to correct the behavior, he certainly deserves forgiveness.  I dont know if thats the case, but I know for certain I am human and have made terrible decisions and missteps in my life.   I would hope people would forgive me for mine, as such I try to forgive others for theirs.

 

It's hard to be "truly apologetic" or take steps to correct bad behavior when the only thing you think you did wrong was getting caught.  That seems to be Gruden as far as I can see.   Keep in mind, too, that Gruden wasn't a dumb, easily influenced adolescent or young adult but a supposedly mature fifty-something who ought to have known better when he wrote these emails.   Moreover, the volume of the bigotry Gruden expressed -- not to mention the crudity of some of it -- makes his behavior significantly more than some instances of poor decision making.

 

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

51 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

It's hard to be "truly apologetic" or take steps to correct bad behavior when the only thing you think you did wrong was getting caught.  That seems to be Gruden as far as I can see.   Keep in mind, too, that Gruden wasn't a dumb, easily influenced adolescent or young adult but a supposedly mature fifty-something who ought to have known better when he wrote these emails.   Moreover, the volume of the bigotry Gruden expressed -- not to mention the crudity of some of it -- makes his behavior significantly more than some instances of poor decision making.

 

 

 

I can't disagree with anything you wrote here.  My hope is the guy did some real soul searching after he was caught.  

[JoPoy88]

5 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I can't disagree with anything you wrote here.  My hope is the guy did some real soul searching after he was caught.  

Possibly, but I highly doubt it. Based on his actions since his dismissal, he clearly sees himself as a victim. 

[RichRiderBills]

21 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

People see "racist, homophobic, sexist" in the article title and go straight to "he has to be cancelled" without allowing for any leeway. 

 

As far as the racist part goes I thought his emails were pretty mild: 

 

"Dumboriss Smith has lips the size of michellin (sic) tires."

 

Gruden's explanation:

 

Gruden, speaking separately to The Athletic, said he didn't remember the specifics of the email to Allen, and that he uses the term "rubber lips" to describe someone as a liar (a possible explanation for his comment on the size of Smith's lips). 

 

For the rest of it, looks like he was a fan of using the words q---r, f----t, or p---y as insults. 

 

All in all I don't think this was bad enough to force him to resign. Given these were what he thought were private emails sent 10 years ago when he wasn't even employed by the NFL I thought a public apology and maybe sensitivity training would've been enough of a punishment. 

 

My apologies if anything in the post runs afoul of this sites censorship rules. 

 

 

I don't think we've ever seen the original emails. Whoever wanted to cancel Gruden found more power in "summarizing" or paraphrasing them. 

 

Take for example the "racial bigotry" aspect, which has not existed in his reputation.

 

The root of this was supposedly an email where he made fun of Demaurice Smith and his lips. 

 

Take that for how you will, but I see that as a huge stretch. 

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

I don't think we've ever seen the original emails. Whoever wanted to cancel Gruden found more power in "summarizing" or paraphrasing them. 

 

Take for example the "racial bigotry" aspect, which has not existed in his reputation.

 

The root of this was supposedly an email where he made fun of Demaurice Smith and his lips. 

 

Take that for how you will, but I see that as a huge stretch. 

what exactly is being stretched here? People have seen the emails and quoted them verbatim. If you criticize a black person by referring to the size of their lips, that’s bigoted. If you can’t see or accept that, then that’s obviously a you thing.

[RichRiderBills]

7 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

what exactly is being stretched here? People have seen the emails and quoted them verbatim. If you criticize a black person by referring to the size of their lips, that’s bigoted. If you can’t see or accept that, then that’s obviously a you thing.

 

The actual emails have not been published. Everything we've heard is hearsay. 

[JoPoy88]

5 hours ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

The actual emails have not been published. Everything we've heard is hearsay. 

Yeah I’m sure the multiple reports quoting people who’ve had eyes on the emails and quoted them are all lying or embellishing. 
 

That and the fact that Gruden hasn’t denied he wrote what was reported.

[SoTier]

On 7/19/2023 at 8:09 AM, RichRiderBills said:

 

I don't think we've ever seen the original emails. Whoever wanted to cancel Gruden found more power in "summarizing" or paraphrasing them. 

 

Take for example the "racial bigotry" aspect, which has not existed in his reputation.

 

The root of this was supposedly an email where he made fun of Demaurice Smith and his lips. 

 

Take that for how you will, but I see that as a huge stretch. 

 

The reason that the "original emails" were never published is simply because many, if not most, were too disgusting to be published in the mainstream media, and before you start bellyaching about the "bias" of "MSM", consider that local and national news outlets don't broadcast or publish the worst crime or accident scene photos, either. 

 

As for Gruden's "reputation", it was a carefully maintained fiction.   He's just a hypocrite who revealed the real guy behind the facade with people he believed shared his "values".    Mel Gibson never had a reputation as an anti-Semite, either, before he was arrested for drunk driving and started spewing venom about Jews.

 

 

[RichRiderBills]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

The reason that the "original emails" were never published is simply because many, if not most, were too disgusting to be published in the mainstream media, and before you start bellyaching about the "bias" of "MSM", consider that local and national news outlets don't broadcast or publish the worst crime or accident scene photos, either. 

 

As for Gruden's "reputation", it was a carefully maintained fiction.   He's just a hypocrite who revealed the real guy behind the facade with people he believed shared his "values".    Mel Gibson never had a reputation as an anti-Semite, either, before he was arrested for drunk driving and started spewing venom about Jews.

 

 

 

Gibson has been fine since. He's been forgiven by most . He's gone on to do a lot of good. 

 

I can see you are a rush to judgement type. Already have me pegged as some radical because I don't think it's wise to accept related evidence or rush to judgement.

 

This situation is vastly different. 

 

Saying the emails were too disgusting to publish seems unlikely. 

 

Either way, we have a court case that will either vindicate Gruden or prove me wrong. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by RichRiderBills

[Rico]

Go Chucky Go!