All_Pro_Bills Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Trump just ordered the hold outs on the Schiff censure to vote for it. They did. Trump is the king of the GOP I think its just because Schiff is a slimy pathological liar. But that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got there. My guess is from the looks of his expanding waistline, the only thing Trump is ordering lately is a couple Big Macs and a large shake. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Kind of the same thing I really hope the light is finally turning on in the Republican party. I relish the day where we can go back to getting large deals struck through compromise for the good of the nation, instead of focusing on getting a political majority in the House, Senate, or SCOTUS. If people really are starting to reject Trump and come back to the middle ground, then that only further inspires my own personal crusade on the left. We also have a small group of vocal radicals that needs to be checked, and I've been trying my best to speak up in those circles about some of our own excesses. I have a feeling this is much the same on the middle-right with Trump, but many people on the middle-left are afraid to speak up about how far some of these social justice wars are going. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, Capco said: I really hope the light is finally turning on in the Republican party. I relish the day where we can go back to getting large deals struck through compromise for the good of the nation, instead of focusing on getting a political majority in the House, Senate, or SCOTUS. If people really are starting to reject Trump and come back to the middle ground, then that only further inspires my own personal crusade on the left. We also have a small group of vocal radicals that needs to be checked, and I've been trying my best to speak up in those circles about some of our own excesses. I have a feeling this is much the same on the middle-right with Trump, but many people on the middle-left are afraid to speak up about how far some of these social justice wars are going. It’s always everyone you don’t agree with who have to compromise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Capco said: I really hope the light is finally turning on in the Republican party. I relish the day where we can go back to getting large deals struck through compromise for the good of the nation, instead of focusing on getting a political majority in the House, Senate, or SCOTUS. If people really are starting to reject Trump and come back to the middle ground, then that only further inspires my own personal crusade on the left. We also have a small group of vocal radicals that needs to be checked, and I've been trying my best to speak up in those circles about some of our own excesses. I have a feeling this is much the same on the middle-right with Trump, but many people on the middle-left are afraid to speak up about how far some of these social justice wars are going. I think the ultimate problem inflicting both parties is the result of money and campaign financing. The national parties hold way too much control and influence over Senators and Representatives. Conformity and obedience is demanded and any attempts to reconcile and compromise with "the enemy" is fraught with negative consequences. Like not getting campaign money or the national party finding a more compliant person to run for your seat in the primary. Maybe getting dropped from committee assignments. All these people campaign at the local or state level on specific issues of interest to the citizens of their district and state then go to Washington and forget about almost all of those issues and pledges. Then just toe the party line at the national level. Anybody that steps out of lines gets roasted or pushed back inside the national party's ideological guardrails I'm not sure what the solution to a lack of independence and conviction to getting things done might be other than prohibiting large donors and more regulation and rules around PACs and other sources of funds. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: You crazy conspiracy theorists. This administration would never work in concert with their pals in the media to bury a story bad for the White House. It’s almost like this country needs competent governors that have had ZERO connections to the Deep State DC swamp with a track record of working for ALL Americans - especially the middle class - to run this country. Edited June 23, 2023 by Big Blitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Westside said: It’s always everyone you don’t agree with who have to compromise. You mean nowadays? If so then for sure. But a big part of why that is today is political polarization. Before the Southern Strategy was implemented, there used to be a conservative wing of Democrats from the South, and a liberal wing of Republicans from cities like those in the Rust Belt. Successful votes involving large portions of the minority party were more commonplace. Even if those votes still went along ideological lines, they were at least bipartisan to the average voter. Now that conservative Democrat and liberal Republican are oxymorons, compromise is dead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 14 minutes ago, Capco said: I really hope the light is finally turning on in the Republican party. I relish the day where we can go back to getting large deals struck through compromise for the good of the nation, instead of focusing on getting a political majority in the House, Senate, or SCOTUS. If people really are starting to reject Trump and come back to the middle ground, then that only further inspires my own personal crusade on the left. We also have a small group of vocal radicals that needs to be checked, and I've been trying my best to speak up in those circles about some of our own excesses. I have a feeling this is much the same on the middle-right with Trump, but many people on the middle-left are afraid to speak up about how far some of these social justice wars are going. Ironically, from an actual governance standpoint (if you look at strictly policy and ignore all the other baggage) Donnie did not execute like a political extremist. He obviously appeals to the right extremists because of the bluster and rhetoric… but if you look at what was executed during his tenure, it was relatively moderate. I’m sure there are exceptions I’m not remembering, and obviously when he opens his mouth it is a different story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I think the ultimate problem inflicting both parties is the result of money and campaign financing. The national parties hold way too much control and influence over Senators and Representatives. Conformity and obedience is demanded and any attempts to reconcile and compromise with "the enemy" is fraught with negative consequences. Like not getting campaign money or the national party finding a more compliant person to run for your seat in the primary. Maybe getting dropped from committee assignments. All these people campaign at the local or state level on specific issues of interest to the citizens of their district and state then go to Washington and forget about almost all of those issues and pledges. Then just toe the party line at the national level. Anybody that steps out of lines gets roasted or pushed back inside the national party's ideological guardrails I'm not sure what the solution to a lack of independence and conviction to getting things done might be other than prohibiting large donors and more regulation and rules around PACs and other sources of funds. Two words: Citizens United. What an awful ruling for the health of American democracy. It opened the floodgates of anonymous donor money for those stupid super PACs. I remember a congressperson stating in an interview that they spend the majority (like 80%?) of their time campaigning for money and the rest actually legislating lol. No wonder nothing gets done! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Ironically, from an actual governance standpoint (if you look at strictly policy and ignore all the other baggage) Donnie did not execute like a political extremist. He obviously appeals to the right extremists because of the bluster and rhetoric… but if you look at what was executed during his tenure, it was relatively moderate. I’m sure there are exceptions I’m not remembering, and obviously when he opens his mouth it is a different story Two come to mind right off the bat: his massive tax cut for corporations and the wealthy, and his appointments for SCOTUS and the federal judiciary. Those are his two greatest accomplishments in office, and both are politically extreme in my view. The tax cuts did not benefit the lowest brackets of taxpayers while adding trillions to the deficit, and the judges he picked could not have been further on the right of the political spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 43 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I think its just because Schiff is a slimy pathological liar. But that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got there. My guess is from the looks of his expanding waistline, the only thing Trump is ordering lately is a couple Big Macs and a large shake. What lies did Schiff tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Capco said: Two come to mind right off the bat: his massive tax cut for corporations and the wealthy, and his appointments for SCOTUS and the federal judiciary. Those are his two greatest accomplishments in office, and both are politically extreme in my view. The tax cuts did not benefit the lowest brackets of taxpayers while adding trillions to the deficit, and the judges he picked could not have been further on the right of the political spectrum. Scoutus is a good call. I forgot that one. I have a different perspective on tax policy being ‘extreme’. It is true when you cut taxes, the people that pay them all get more benefit than the ones who don’t pay any. But the gift to the wealthy stuff is a partisan lie. See here an analysis. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/truth-trumps-tax-cuts-numbers-120026435.html yahoo tends be be relatively center although this guy is out to debunk the wealthy claims for sure. Quote --The income tax burden for high earners increased $16 billion to 40 percent of the total owed. --The income tax burden for middle class earners decreased by $31 billion to 13 percent of the total owed. --The income tax burden for low wage workers decreased by $4 billion to 1 percent of the total owed. I know for me personally the SALT caps kept my taxes from improving very much… deductions went away and a lot more folks couldn’t itemize any more maxing out with standard deduction because of overall simplification. and nobody seems interested in cutting spending or closing loopholes the elites use. more https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income-tax-data/ Edited June 23, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Pokebball said: If Trump goes away, GOP wins the WH. Dems don't want that to happen. AmIRight? Depends on who runs. If it's an ass kissing magat then no. If it's someone breaking from the insanity I'm open to it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 28 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Scoutus is a good call. I forgot that one. I have a different perspective on tax policy being ‘extreme’. It is true when you cut taxes, the people that pay them all get more benefit than the ones who don’t pay any. But the gift to the wealthy stuff is a partisan lie. See here an analysis. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/truth-trumps-tax-cuts-numbers-120026435.html yahoo tends be be relatively center I know for me personally the SALT caps kept my taxes from improving very much… deductions went away and a lot more folks couldn’t itemize any more maxing out with standard deduction because of overall simplification. and nobody seems interested in cutting spending or closing loopholes the elites use. That is an editorial written by Andy Puzder, Trump's former nominee for Labor Secretary. About the only political view I agree with him on is his support for comprehensive immigration reform in 2013. And as might be expected, the picture he painted is incomplete. His numbers only reflect wages. While most of us plebs earn our money through actual labor for pay, the wealthiest people earn most of their money through assets, not wages, and assets are taxed differently (e.g., capital gains). It also neglected to address the corporate tax rate reduction. Fixing the tax system isn't so much about raising income tax brackets for wages (although it should still be done imo) as much as it is about closing loopholes for large businesses/corporations and raising taxes on assets. I just finished a class in law school called "Future Interests" and it's insane how easy it is for the ultra wealthy to avoid huge amounts of taxes through things like "charitable" trusts that pay enormous sums to their board of directors who are conveniently made up exclusively of family members with appointments for life that can be inherited. Quote According to a report released today by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO), extending the Trump tax cuts would add $3.5 trillion to the deficit through 2033. ... The new report comes the day before a Senate Budget Committee hearing on how the Bush and Trump tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations have driven recent and projected federal deficits. They have been the largest driver of deficits over the past two decades and account for 57% of the increase in the debt-to-GDP ratio since 2001. https://www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/extending-trump-tax-cuts-would-add-35-trillion-to-the-deficit-according-to-cbo The whole tax-burden approach also leaves out another important detail. By lowering the total amount of taxes levied, the difference in revenue had to be made up through borrowing. When 57% of the increase in debt-to-GDP ratio since 2001 can be traced to two pieces of legislation, that counts as extreme in my book--especially when it's from the supposed party of fiscal responsibility. I think I read earlier this week that every dollar spent on the IRS produces $7 in revenue. If we want to address the debt-to-GDP ratio and be more fiscally responsible, gutting the IRS seems like a terrible approach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Joe Bribe'em and his buddies had the Navy torpedo the submersible to take heat off Daddy's bribes and his crackhead son's indictment. What a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Capco said: That is an editorial written by Andy Puzder, Trump's former nominee for Labor Secretary. About the only political view I agree with him on is his support for comprehensive immigration reform in 2013. And as might be expected, the picture he painted is incomplete. His numbers only reflect wages. While most of us plebs earn our money through actual labor for pay, the wealthiest people earn most of their money through assets, not wages, and assets are taxed differently (e.g., capital gains). It also neglected to address the corporate tax rate reduction. Fixing the tax system isn't so much about raising income tax brackets for wages (although it should still be done imo) as much as it is about closing loopholes for large businesses/corporations and raising taxes on assets. I just finished a class in law school called "Future Interests" and it's insane how easy it is for the ultra wealthy to avoid huge amounts of taxes through things like "charitable" trusts that pay enormous sums to their board of directors who are conveniently made up exclusively of family members with appointments for life that can be inherited. https://www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/extending-trump-tax-cuts-would-add-35-trillion-to-the-deficit-according-to-cbo The whole tax-burden approach also leaves out another important detail. By lowering the total amount of taxes levied, the difference in revenue had to be made up through borrowing. When 57% of the increase in debt-to-GDP ratio since 2001 can be traced to two pieces of legislation, that counts as extreme in my book--especially when it's from the supposed party of fiscal responsibility. I think I read earlier this week that every dollar spent on the IRS produces $7 in revenue. If we want to address the debt-to-GDP ratio and be more fiscally responsible, gutting the IRS seems like a terrible approach. we’re saying the same thing. I just don’t think trumpy tax cuts had anything to do with any of the tax avoidance problem. It’s all theses wealthy getting wealthier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted June 24, 2023 Author Share Posted June 24, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 20 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: I like how Joe Biden is simultaneously a senile old man and also a mastermind behind every single event on earth. Just the kind of DoubleThink that Republicans are told to believe and so easily swallow up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 19 hours ago, Big Blitz said: It’s almost like this country needs competent governors that have had ZERO connections to the Deep State DC swamp with a track record of working for ALL Americans - especially the middle class - to run this country. Oh, Gawd. This guy has more masters than his dominatrix has slaves... https://www.foxnews.com/media/obama-calls-obscene-inequality-news-coverage-oceangate-sub-tragedy-sinking-migrant-ship Thoughts? I think he's on point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, Roundybout said: I like how Joe Biden is simultaneously a senile old man and also a mastermind behind every single event on earth. Just the kind of DoubleThink that Republicans are told to believe and so easily swallow up. No one has called Joke a mastermind. Ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 17 minutes ago, Doc said: No one has called Joke a mastermind. Ever. And yet people are calling the sub, the Wagner Coup, etc all the work of Biden to distract you from Hunter. Which is it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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