Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[billsfanmiamioh]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

What is the $30k for on your image?

 

Are they saying “this PSL is worth $30k, but we are letting you take it home for the low low price of $20k”?

 

I think you need a new screen name

[Mr Info]

9 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

What is the $30k for on your image?

 

Are they saying “this PSL is worth $30k, but we are letting you take it home for the low low price of $20k”?

 

Field club PSL is $15k/seat x two seats (my quote image)= $30k. East club PSL is $20K/seat. My quote is for 2 seats (follow link in earlier post today where I placed the East club images in my first post after I got experienced).

Edited March 21 by Mr Info

[Einstein]

Just now, Mr Info said:

Field club PSL is $15k/seat x two seats (my quote) = $30k. East club PSL is $20K/seat. My quote is for 2 seats (follow link in earlier post today where I placed the East club images in my first post after I got experienced).

Thanks for the explanation. It was my fault. You wrote "East club PSL is $20k/seat" and my brain read it as "Each club PSL is $20k/seat".

Aka, I thought you were saying all the clubs had a PSL of $20k/seat. I should have kept reading.

[MikePJ76]

I told everyone. PSL's are the devil.  They exist to guarantee the home team has a sellout.  Owners have rigged it so fans can never just not show up and show their displeasure with the team/owner.

 

They are incredibly expensive and in a market like buffalo almost useless.   In Arlington they have events multiple nights a week.  tons of concerts, soccer, wrestling, boxing etc.  When you have a PSL in DFW you get first dibs on tickets.  What is the advantage or point in Buffalo, NY?  The occasional summer concert?

 

Owners all need to be dealt some reality but they use fans love of the sport and their team against them knowing most will find ways to pay for it somehow.   I know here in Dallas you can/could finance your psl for 30 years.  Something to the effect of a 5500 PSL for 30 years at whatever percent and it was like 300 once a year and then you pay your ticket prices.  

 

 

Edited March 21 by MikePJ76

[mrags]

22 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

I told everyone. PSL's are the devil.  They exist to guarantee the home team has a sellout.  Owners have rigged it so fans can never just not show up and show their displeasure with the team/owner.

 

They are incredibly expensive and in a market like buffalo almost useless.   In Arlington they have events multiple nights a week.  tons of concerts, soccer, wrestling, boxing etc.  When you have a PSL in DFW you get first dibs on tickets.  What is the advantage or point in Buffalo, NY?  The occasional summer concert?

 

Owners all need to be dealt some reality but they use fans love of the sport and their team against them knowing most will find ways to pay for it somehow.   I know here in Dallas you can/could finance your psl for 30 years.  Something to the effect of a 5500 PSL for 30 years at whatever percent and it was like 300 once a year and then you pay your ticket prices.  

 

 

I would say that even with interest, if they offered a 20 or 30 year PSL it would go over much better than it currently is. Fans would not worry so much about paying 1k a year for 30 years for a club seat. But when you demand all that money up front or within 10 years or less it becomes a much bigger nut for almost all “fans”. Of course the business/corporate side doesn’t care. They take their write offs asap. 

[That's No Moon]

3 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

It's sad, with how much these tix will be sold on ticket Master etal. I can't see my grandson and I catching a game in the new stadium.

 

I'm glad I got to take him to the current one.  Maybe we can get 1 more game there before it's gone.

When I was 11 I worked my butt off all year to be able to buy my own season ticket in the 45 yard line. Hustling around the neighborhood, cutting grass, shoveling snow, you name it. Working, not gifted.

 

No kid will ever be able to tell a story like that again which is a shame. There is no 11 year old who could ever afford a 15k PSL plus 6k in tickets for the seat that I had. Not legally anyway.

[SoonerBillsFan]

Just now, That's No Moon said:

When I was 11 I worked my butt off all year to be able to buy my own season ticket in the 45 yard line. Hustling around the neighborhood, cutting grass, shoveling snow, you name it. Working, not gifted.

 

No kid will ever be able to tell a story like that again which is a shame. There is no 11 year old who could ever afford a 15k PSL plus 6k in tickets for the seat that I had. Not legally anyway.

Yeah the PSL's are a bull **** move by Terry. 

[BillsPride12]

3 minutes ago, mrags said:

I would say that even with interest, if they offered a 20 or 30 year PSL it would go over much better than it currently is. Fans would not worry so much about paying 1k a year for 30 years for a club seat. But when you demand all that money up front or within 10 years or less it becomes a much bigger nut for almost all “fans”. Of course the business/corporate side doesn’t care. They take their write offs asap. 

Just a side note to this discussion, but I have seen this mentioned multiple times how businesses will just buy season tickets and use them as a write-off but I was talking to an Accountant I know and he said sports entertainment is no longer a viable tax write off.

[mrags]

Just now, BillsPride12 said:

Just a side note to this discussion, but I have seen this mentioned multiple times how businesses will just buy season tickets and use them as a write-off but I was talking to an Accountant I know and he said sports entertainment is no longer a viable tax write off.

I’m sure the business with their lawyers have found a way to figure it out. 

4 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

When I was 11 I worked my butt off all year to be able to buy my own season ticket in the 45 yard line. Hustling around the neighborhood, cutting grass, shoveling snow, you name it. Working, not gifted.

 

No kid will ever be able to tell a story like that again which is a shame. There is no 11 year old who could ever afford a 15k PSL plus 6k in tickets for the seat that I had. Not legally anyway.

And I hate to say it but the businessmen of the NFL. The owners. The tv execs. None of them give 2 chits about that. They cater to people taking out loans to take their families to 1-2 games a year between the secondary prices of the tix. The hotels. The restaurants. The car rentals. Etc. Or they cater to the businesses that buy out the seats and host business parties or shmooze their clients at games so they can sell more houses, or have better banking options. Etc. They don’t give 2 F-“Ks about the teenager saving up to buy tickets and not spend another dime while inside the stadium. Honestly, they don’t care about almost any of it anyway. Because the tv contracts are what’s putting the majority of money into all their pockets anyway. 

[Buffalo716]

35 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

I told everyone. PSL's are the devil.  They exist to guarantee the home team has a sellout.  Owners have rigged it so fans can never just not show up and show their displeasure with the team/owner.

 

They are incredibly expensive and in a market like buffalo almost useless.   In Arlington they have events multiple nights a week.  tons of concerts, soccer, wrestling, boxing etc.  When you have a PSL in DFW you get first dibs on tickets.  What is the advantage or point in Buffalo, NY?  The occasional summer concert?

 

Owners all need to be dealt some reality but they use fans love of the sport and their team against them knowing most will find ways to pay for it somehow.   I know here in Dallas you can/could finance your psl for 30 years.  Something to the effect of a 5500 PSL for 30 years at whatever percent and it was like 300 once a year and then you pay your ticket prices.  

 

 

To be fair AT&t stadium only has four concerts booked through the end of the year right now

 

A few rodeos a few boxing matches and a bunch of soccer matches

 

Soccer has zero appeal in Buffalo basically.. neither does the rodeo

 

So they have four concerts and a few boxing 

 

That's not mega cool huge events happening all the time to be fair... Like nobody cares about a rodeo in Buffalo

 

And every single stadium study showed it does nothing for the local economy big picture 

[Just Jack]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

We had 9 home games last year (8 in Buffalo) and 8 homes games this year. So it’s equal.

 

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/buffalo/news/2024/02/15/bills-season-ticket-prices-increase#:~:text=Bills announce season ticket prices to inc

 

Plus one pre-season game last year, making it 9 total home games.  This year we should be getting two pre-season games, making it 10 home games.  You still need to pay for a ticket to go to pre-season games.  

[That's No Moon]

35 minutes ago, mrags said:

I’m sure the business with their lawyers have found a way to figure it out. 

And I hate to say it but the businessmen of the NFL. The owners. The tv execs. None of them give 2 chits about that. They cater to people taking out loans to take their families to 1-2 games a year between the secondary prices of the tix. The hotels. The restaurants. The car rentals. Etc. Or they cater to the businesses that buy out the seats and host business parties or shmooze their clients at games so they can sell more houses, or have better banking options. Etc. They don’t give 2 F-“Ks about the teenager saving up to buy tickets and not spend another dime while inside the stadium. Honestly, they don’t care about almost any of it anyway. Because the tv contracts are what’s putting the majority of money into all their pockets anyway. 

Yep it's very shortsighted. If the kids don't learn to love it, they won't watch when they are older either, but that's modern corporate thinking too. The only quarter that matters is the next quarter.

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Yep it's very shortsighted. If the kids don't learn to love it, they won't watch when they are older either, but that's modern corporate thinking too. The only quarter that matters is the next quarter.

Idk. The nfl has enough hype going for it that I don’t think that it will ever  matter. 

[Just Jack]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

I would say that even with interest, if they offered a 20 or 30 year PSL it would go over much better than it currently is. Fans would not worry so much about paying 1k a year for 30 years for a club seat. But when you demand all that money up front or within 10 years or less it becomes a much bigger nut for almost all “fans”. Of course the business/corporate side doesn’t care. They take their write offs asap. 

 

I know it would for me.  $20K over 20 years is only $1000/year + interest.  I can deal better with that than any of the current set ups. 

[Griecoa10]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

I would say that even with interest, if they offered a 20 or 30 year PSL it would go over much better than it currently is. Fans would not worry so much about paying 1k a year for 30 years for a club seat. But when you demand all that money up front or within 10 years or less it becomes a much bigger nut for almost all “fans”. Of course the business/corporate side doesn’t care. They take their write offs asap. 

Guessing the issue would be people defaulting or choosing not to pay the PSL in some down years, they want us all to have a big enough sunk cost up front that it’ll hurt us to leave.

[mrags]

43 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

I know it would for me.  $20K over 20 years is only $1000/year + interest.  I can deal better with that than any of the current set ups. 

Yup. Even if they needed like 20% down or something like that. It’s no different how they do the tix now. You can pay monthly. You just don’t have access to tix during the season until they are paid for 

34 minutes ago, Griecoa10 said:

Guessing the issue would be people defaulting or choosing not to pay the PSL in some down years, they want us all to have a big enough sunk cost up front that it’ll hurt us to leave.

% down would fix that. Maybe demanding 5 years up front. Then you’d always be 5 years paid up early. 
 

could even give people an out to just pay for the pSL fees but pass off the tix sales to others if needed. This way you could still keep the rights to the seats but opt out for  a year. Etc. 

[QCity]

2 hours ago, mrags said:

I would say that even with interest, if they offered a 20 or 30 year PSL it would go over much better than it currently is. 

 

2 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

When I was 11 I worked my butt off all year to be able to buy my own season ticket in the 45 yard line. Hustling around the neighborhood, cutting grass, shoveling snow, you name it. Working, not gifted.

 

No kid will ever be able to tell a story like that again which is a shame. There is no 11 year old who could ever afford a 15k PSL plus 6k in tickets for the seat that I had. Not legally anyway.

 

1 hour ago, Just Jack said:

 

I know it would for me.  $20K over 20 years is only $1000/year + interest. 

 

These clubs seats are not meant for a person with an average salary that would need a 20-year loan (and certainly not an 11-year old as mentioned above). They are catered to companies and clientele that have 5-figure spending money (not savings) on hand.

 

The high-end club PSLs will almost assuredly lose value. Could you imagine the average person taking out a 20-year loan and now the year is 2036, he still owes $10K+ and meanwhile similar PSLs to his are now selling on the market for $8K? It would be akin to being underwater on a mortgage.

[MikePJ76]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

To be fair AT&t stadium only has four concerts booked through the end of the year right now

 

A few rodeos a few boxing matches and a bunch of soccer matches

 

Soccer has zero appeal in Buffalo basically.. neither does the rodeo

 

So they have four concerts and a few boxing 

 

That's not mega cool huge events happening all the time to be fair... Like nobody cares about a rodeo in Buffalo

 

And every single stadium study showed it does nothing for the local economy big picture 

I live here.  I drive by the dumb place all the time.  They have events constantly out there.  Not to mention now with the new ballpark for the rangers they built another complex that is all sports bars and its huge.  Both stadiums and the complex (Texas Live) are right down the street on the same block and the old ballpark, the nice one is still there also across the street.

 

They may only have a few events scheduled at the moment but its a constant thing.  Plus you throw in the high school football state championships which are huge here and college bowl games and kickoff games.  

 

I have no idea what it does for the local economy nor do I care...if it fell over I would laugh.  I know tarrant county and the city of arlington own the stadium.  I have to imagine they are making something, hell for the taylor swift concerts the last few years alone.  

 

Believe me there is always stuff going on out there.  I think they have boat shows and other nonsense like that there too.  

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

I live here.  I drive by the dumb place all the time.  They have events constantly out there.  Not to mention now with the new ballpark for the rangers they built another complex that is all sports bars and its huge.  Both stadiums and the complex (Texas Live) are right down the street on the same block and the old ballpark, the nice one is still there also across the street.

 

They may only have a few events scheduled at the moment but its a constant thing.  Plus you throw in the high school football state championships which are huge here and college bowl games and kickoff games.  

 

I have no idea what it does for the local economy nor do I care...if it fell over I would laugh.  I know tarrant county and the city of arlington own the stadium.  I have to imagine they are making something, hell for the taylor swift concerts the last few years alone.  

 

Believe me there is always stuff going on out there.  I think they have boat shows and other nonsense like that there too.  

The Buffalo Bills spent years researching The stadium project

 

They researched if having a convention center or a multi-purpose venue was financially worth it

 

All of their research showed it was not... NYS certainly would have done it if they could have made more money

 

And that a standalone football stadium was the best option

Edited March 21 by Buffalo716

[MikePJ76]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The Buffalo Bills spent years researching The stadium project

 

They researched if having a convention center or a multi-purpose venue was financially worth it

 

All of their research showed it was not... NYS certainly would have done it if they could have made more money

 

And that a standalone football stadium was the best option

well i am confused...or maybe  you are.  I do not follow what you are getting at.  My point was with a PSL here you get access to tickets to other events....and maybe buffalo doesn't care about soccer or college football but I assure it is huge in this market.  So if you were a cowboys season ticket holder you would have first dibs at tickets for these big events.  

 

There are like 9 million people in this market.  If you have a psl you can recoup some of your money by buying tickets to events like the cotton bowl, other college games, taylor swift concerts...etc....and selling them on the secondary market which is what everyone does.  Personally I think that sucks completely but that is what happens.

 

anyway.  The original point was having to pay these high PSL costs in Buffalo makes zero sense while in other markets like DFW, NYC, Los Angeles etc. at least there is some other perk to having the psl.