Chicago

[ChiGoose]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

What's wrong with sending them to sanctuary cities?  These cities have long stated that they welcome illegal aliens with open arms.  What changed?

 

I'm not sure you understand what a sanctuary city actually is

 

Just now, Pokebball said:

Curious as to what additional measures you would then support

 

You'd have to go to the root causes of the crisis, which are many, including instability in Central America, underfunded/understaffed immigration courts, drug smuggling, etc.

 

Much of the current crisis is being driven by refugees who are able to cross the border legally so long as they present themselves to the government and make their claim. However, the process can take a long time, which discourages compliance with the law and encourages them to find other means to enter the country.

 

Here's a couple things that I think could put a good dent in the problem:

• Partner with some of the more stable Central American countries to coordinate processing of asylum claims and more orderly distribution of refugees throughout the region
• Increase funding and staffing for immigration courts and agencies to more quickly process claims
  • If people could immigrate legally but would have to wait many years, they're more likely to come in illegally
  • Immigration courts are currently severely under-resourced, causing delays to adjudication and creating incentives to enter illegally
• Beef up case management and other alternatives to detention
  • It's expensive and often counter productive to house people while waiting for processing. This is especially true due to the delays caused by the overburdened immigration court system
    • Having CBP officers handing out diapers and feeding immigrants isn't a good use of their time or talents
  • Strong case management programs can help people navigate the immigration process and find safe and stable living conditions while their case is pending without requiring the US to house them
  • A pilot ICE program called Family Case Management Program had an over 99% compliance rate with ICE check-ins and court appearances
  • This allows people to be productive members of society while staying compliant with immigration laws
• Modify ports of entry to address increased immigration
  • Ports of entry currently only allow a limited number of people to present claims per day. Legally, anyone should be able to present themselves at a port of entry to make a claim of asylum
  • Currently, refugees have the choice of waiting for weeks or months to present their claim or finding another way into the country
  • Ports of entry should be properly staffed to handle asylum claims in a timely manner, incentivizing people to enter the country legally
• Stabilizing the region
  • Any aid to unstable Central American countries should be conditioned on progress on reforms and moving towards stability.
• Drugs
  • I know it's controversial, but legalizing marijuana and looking at harm reduction policies for other harder drugs would reduce the demand for cartel drugs. 
• Security
  • Border security should be focused on how people actually come in to the country and utilize technology instead of a big dumb and expensive wall across the border
  • Renovating and staffing the ports of entry to actually handle expected volumes of asylum claims would not only allow them to process people as they arrived, but it would incentivize future refugees to present themselves at ports and comply with the law instead of finding alternative pathways into the US
  • More funding for sensors, drones, and other technologies that provide a low-cost, but more effective approach to identifying smugglers, drugs, and other contraband.
    • Most contraband comes through ports of entry, so such technology, when paired with increases in staffing, should help catch more smuggling attempts
    • Drones and cameras can provide real-time notice of people crossing the border outside of ports of entry
      • Such solutions, however, would require strong conditions against their use to surveil US citizens living in the border zone

I'd also like to see some comprehensive immigration reform that expands eligibility, but the above list is focused on how to reduce the crisis under existing law without changing who is able to enter legally and who is not.

[Doc]

30 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

I'm not sure you understand what a sanctuary city actually is

 

Apparently neither do they.

[Orlando Tim]

32 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I'm not sure you understand what a sanctuary city actually is

 

 

You'd have to go to the root causes of the crisis, which are many, including instability in Central America, underfunded/understaffed immigration courts, drug smuggling, etc.

 

Much of the current crisis is being driven by refugees who are able to cross the border legally so long as they present themselves to the government and make their claim. However, the process can take a long time, which discourages compliance with the law and encourages them to find other means to enter the country.

 

Here's a couple things that I think could put a good dent in the problem:

• Partner with some of the more stable Central American countries to coordinate processing of asylum claims and more orderly distribution of refugees throughout the region
• Increase funding and staffing for immigration courts and agencies to more quickly process claims
  • If people could immigrate legally but would have to wait many years, they're more likely to come in illegally
  • Immigration courts are currently severely under-resourced, causing delays to adjudication and creating incentives to enter illegally
• Beef up case management and other alternatives to detention
  • It's expensive and often counter productive to house people while waiting for processing. This is especially true due to the delays caused by the overburdened immigration court system
    • Having CBP officers handing out diapers and feeding immigrants isn't a good use of their time or talents
  • Strong case management programs can help people navigate the immigration process and find safe and stable living conditions while their case is pending without requiring the US to house them
  • A pilot ICE program called Family Case Management Program had an over 99% compliance rate with ICE check-ins and court appearances
  • This allows people to be productive members of society while staying compliant with immigration laws
• Modify ports of entry to address increased immigration
  • Ports of entry currently only allow a limited number of people to present claims per day. Legally, anyone should be able to present themselves at a port of entry to make a claim of asylum
  • Currently, refugees have the choice of waiting for weeks or months to present their claim or finding another way into the country
  • Ports of entry should be properly staffed to handle asylum claims in a timely manner, incentivizing people to enter the country legally
• Stabilizing the region
  • Any aid to unstable Central American countries should be conditioned on progress on reforms and moving towards stability.
• Drugs
  • I know it's controversial, but legalizing marijuana and looking at harm reduction policies for other harder drugs would reduce the demand for cartel drugs. 
• Security
  • Border security should be focused on how people actually come in to the country and utilize technology instead of a big dumb and expensive wall across the border
  • Renovating and staffing the ports of entry to actually handle expected volumes of asylum claims would not only allow them to process people as they arrived, but it would incentivize future refugees to present themselves at ports and comply with the law instead of finding alternative pathways into the US
  • More funding for sensors, drones, and other technologies that provide a low-cost, but more effective approach to identifying smugglers, drugs, and other contraband.
    • Most contraband comes through ports of entry, so such technology, when paired with increases in staffing, should help catch more smuggling attempts
    • Drones and cameras can provide real-time notice of people crossing the border outside of ports of entry
      • Such solutions, however, would require strong conditions against their use to surveil US citizens living in the border zone

I'd also like to see some comprehensive immigration reform that expands eligibility, but the above list is focused on how to reduce the crisis under existing law without changing who is able to enter legally and who is not.

Just to the first comment- what is a sanctuary city if not a place where people unwelcome elsewhere are welcomed? 

[BillsFanNC]

Getting bogged down with The King handwaving, bloviating, parsing and projecting.

 

How novel and refreshing!

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, Orlando Tim said:

Just to the first comment- what is a sanctuary city if not a place where people unwelcome elsewhere are welcomed? 

 

A sanctuary city is simply a city that doesn't report suspected illegal immigrants to immigration enforcement.

 

That's really it. Some cities do more with social services and such, some don't; but the main thing is that they don't hold people for immigration enforcement.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, ChiGoose said:

A sanctuary city is simply a city that doesn't report suspected illegal immigrants to immigration enforcement.

 

That's really it. Some cities do more with social services and such, some don't; but the main thing is that they don't hold people for immigration enforcement.

 

So a city that doesn't report illegals to ICE.  Yeah, sounds like a terrible place to send them...

[ChiGoose]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So a city that doesn't report illegals to ICE.  Yeah, sounds like a terrible place to send them...

 

There's a difference between coordinating with other cities to help deal with the surge in people and trafficking people across the country to just dump them off in other cities to make a political point.

 

Frankly, whatever people believe about immigration and immigration laws, anyone who supports human trafficking for political points is a disgusting person.

Edited October 13, 2023 by ChiGoose

[Wacka]

Do it, but NIMBY!!!

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I'm not sure you understand what a sanctuary city actually is

 

 

You'd have to go to the root causes of the crisis, which are many, including instability in Central America, underfunded/understaffed immigration courts, drug smuggling, etc.

 

Much of the current crisis is being driven by refugees who are able to cross the border legally so long as they present themselves to the government and make their claim. However, the process can take a long time, which discourages compliance with the law and encourages them to find other means to enter the country.

 

Here's a couple things that I think could put a good dent in the problem:

• Partner with some of the more stable Central American countries to coordinate processing of asylum claims and more orderly distribution of refugees throughout the region
• Increase funding and staffing for immigration courts and agencies to more quickly process claims
  • If people could immigrate legally but would have to wait many years, they're more likely to come in illegally
  • Immigration courts are currently severely under-resourced, causing delays to adjudication and creating incentives to enter illegally
• Beef up case management and other alternatives to detention
  • It's expensive and often counter productive to house people while waiting for processing. This is especially true due to the delays caused by the overburdened immigration court system
    • Having CBP officers handing out diapers and feeding immigrants isn't a good use of their time or talents
  • Strong case management programs can help people navigate the immigration process and find safe and stable living conditions while their case is pending without requiring the US to house them
  • A pilot ICE program called Family Case Management Program had an over 99% compliance rate with ICE check-ins and court appearances
  • This allows people to be productive members of society while staying compliant with immigration laws
• Modify ports of entry to address increased immigration
  • Ports of entry currently only allow a limited number of people to present claims per day. Legally, anyone should be able to present themselves at a port of entry to make a claim of asylum
  • Currently, refugees have the choice of waiting for weeks or months to present their claim or finding another way into the country
  • Ports of entry should be properly staffed to handle asylum claims in a timely manner, incentivizing people to enter the country legally
• Stabilizing the region
  • Any aid to unstable Central American countries should be conditioned on progress on reforms and moving towards stability.
• Drugs
  • I know it's controversial, but legalizing marijuana and looking at harm reduction policies for other harder drugs would reduce the demand for cartel drugs. 
• Security
  • Border security should be focused on how people actually come in to the country and utilize technology instead of a big dumb and expensive wall across the border
  • Renovating and staffing the ports of entry to actually handle expected volumes of asylum claims would not only allow them to process people as they arrived, but it would incentivize future refugees to present themselves at ports and comply with the law instead of finding alternative pathways into the US
  • More funding for sensors, drones, and other technologies that provide a low-cost, but more effective approach to identifying smugglers, drugs, and other contraband.
    • Most contraband comes through ports of entry, so such technology, when paired with increases in staffing, should help catch more smuggling attempts
    • Drones and cameras can provide real-time notice of people crossing the border outside of ports of entry
      • Such solutions, however, would require strong conditions against their use to surveil US citizens living in the border zone

I'd also like to see some comprehensive immigration reform that expands eligibility, but the above list is focused on how to reduce the crisis under existing law without changing who is able to enter legally and who is not.

Then will people be welcome in Chicago? 

[ChiGoose]

21 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Then will people be welcome in Chicago? 

Sure. The city is working on how to provide them with safe shelter and necessities. 
 

Instead of trafficking people like Florida and Texas prefer to do. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Sure . The city is working on how to provide them with safe shelter and necessities. 
 

Instead of trafficking people like Florida and Texas prefer to do. 

You say that as if it's some noble feat--it's the responsibility of the city to do just that.  In NY, people who have travelled to NYC are moved upstate, and it's the responsibility of the cities and counties to care for those people.  I'm not sure how else you solve the current crisis than by recognizing that the only logical solution to the hear and now is all parties sharing in the burden.  

 

The biggest issue I can see if that people in leadership never planned for sharing in the process, and quickly looked to jettison people once they ended up in their village.  

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Sure. The city is working on how to provide them with safe shelter and necessities. 
 

Instead of trafficking people like Florida and Texas prefer to do. 

the trafficking troupe is such a narrative compliant joke. 
 

states getting wholly ***** by blue border policy are saying you want this ***** here- you deal with it. We’re overwhelmed already. 

[ChiGoose]

17 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

You say that as if it's some noble feat--it's the responsibility of the city to do just that.  In NY, people who have travelled to NYC are moved upstate, and it's the responsibility of the cities and counties to care for those people.  I'm not sure how else you solve the current crisis than by recognizing that the only logical solution to the hear and now is all parties sharing in the burden.  

 

The biggest issue I can see if that people in leadership never planned for sharing in the process, and quickly looked to jettison people once they ended up in their village.  

 

 

So you agree that Texas and Florida should be arranging for care of the refugees who arrive there instead of busing them to other places with little to no notice?

 

The biggest issue that I can see is that people want to traffic refugees for political points and astoundingly some people think this is a good thing. 

 

13 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

the trafficking troupe is such a narrative compliant joke. 
 

states getting wholly ***** by blue border policy are saying you want this ***** here- you deal with it. We’re overwhelmed already. 

Last I checked, cities don’t set border policy. Neither do states. 
 

It would be fine for a red state governor to call blue state governors and try to arrange for them to help with the volumes of refugees. If the blue states refused, then that’s a pretty powerful message for the red state governor to use in the next election. 

 

It is unquestionably gross and disgusting to bus families and children across the county to place with little to no warning to be ready to care for them. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

So you agree that Texas and Florida should be arranging for care of the refugees who arrive there instead of busing them to other places with little to no notice?

 

The biggest issue that I can see is that people want to traffic refugees for political points and astoundingly some people think this is a good thing. 

 

Last I checked, cities don’t set border policy. Neither do states. 
 

It would be fine for a red state governor to call blue state governors and try to arrange for them to help with the volumes of refugees. If the blue states refused, then that’s a pretty powerful message for the red state governor to use in the next election. 

 

It is unquestionably gross and disgusting to bus families and children across the county to place with little to no warning to be ready to care for them. 

You’re talking about states, cities, rules and borders.  I’m talking about people and shared responsibility. What I’ve seen is that people are often all about doing what’s right until the responsibility to help falls to them to contribute.   Has there been a time, ever, where people that cross the border are required to set up stakes in this side of the border, or offered travel packages to the place of their choosing?  Have families not been held in facilities against their will, moved by bus or plane to places unknown to them….or do they get to pick and choose where the federal government takes them?  Is that trafficking in your world? 
 

No, the problem is that some people are not interested in sharing the burden.   That’s heartless imo. 
 

 

[Doc]

5 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

There's a difference between coordinating with other cities to help deal with the surge in people and trafficking people across the country to just dump them off in other cities to make a political point.

 

Frankly, whatever people believe about immigration and immigration laws, anyone who supports human trafficking for political points is a disgusting person.

 

You obviously have no idea what the term "human trafficking" means.  But I'm sure it was a nice Dem talking point they told you to use, amirite?

 

Anyway, sanctuary cities are where they belong because a) they're big cities with more resources than border towns and b) they protect them from being deported.  You're just upset that these so-called sanctuary cities are exposing the incompetence if not outright dereliction of duty by Joke's admin in allowing tens of thousands of illegals into the country without vetting, almost daily. 

[ChiGoose]

14 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

You’re talking about states, cities, rules and borders.  I’m talking about people and shared responsibility. What I’ve seen is that people are often all about doing what’s right until the responsibility to help falls to them to contribute.   Has there been a time, ever, where people that cross the border are required to set up stakes in this side of the border, or offered travel packages to the place of their choosing?  Have families not been held in facilities against their will, moved by bus or plane to places unknown to them….or do they get to pick and choose where the federal government takes them?  Is that trafficking in your world? 
 

No, the problem is that some people are not interested in sharing the burden.   That’s heartless imo. 
 

 

I’m talking about reality. Our immigration system is broken and some people have decided to leverage that for political gain by harming people. Sadly, it seems that this is actually popular with a lot of voters. 
 

Cruelty is the point, I guess. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You obviously have no idea what the term "human trafficking" means.  But I'm sure it was a nice Dem talking point they told you to use, amirite?

 

Anyway, sanctuary cities are where they belong because a) they're big cities with more resources than border towns and b) they protect them from being deported.  You're just upset that these so-called sanctuary cities are exposing the incompetence if not outright dereliction of duty by Joke's admin in allowing tens of thousands of illegals into the country without vetting, almost daily. 

I don’t understand what your fascination is with being incredibly wrong all of the time. You seem to be completely and fundamentally incapable of understanding anything behind the fiction you’ve wrapped yourself in. I’m not sure if you just don’t understand how to read or if you’ve so encased yourself in your fantasyland that you cannot accept or even recognize reality. 
 

Everything seems to just be projection for you. It’s really sad. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

So you agree that Texas and Florida should be arranging for care of the refugees who arrive there instead of busing them to other places with little to no notice?

 

The biggest issue that I can see is that people want to traffic refugees for political points and astoundingly some people think this is a good thing. 

 

Last I checked, cities don’t set border policy. Neither do states. 
 

It would be fine for a red state governor to call blue state governors and try to arrange for them to help with the volumes of refugees. If the blue states refused, then that’s a pretty powerful message for the red state governor to use in the next election. 

 

It is unquestionably gross and disgusting to bus families and children across the county to place with little to no warning to be ready to care for them. 

What happens when they show up at the border… I personally think all you open border hero’s should house a migrant family each or stfu

[All_Pro_Bills]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You obviously have no idea what the term "human trafficking" means.  But I'm sure it was a nice Dem talking point they told you to use, amirite?

 

Anyway, sanctuary cities are where they belong because a) they're big cities with more resources than border towns and b) they protect them from being deported.  You're just upset that these so-called sanctuary cities are exposing the incompetence if not outright dereliction of duty by Joke's admin in allowing tens of thousands of illegals into the country without vetting, almost daily. 

Democratic state and city officials could petition the federal government to declare a state of emergency and shut down the border.  Problem solved.  But few have the wherewithal to buck the party which demands complete obedience and compliance to national party decisions.  Truth is their concern for and defense of democracy doesn't get past the front door when it comes to the party and that dogma only applies when criticizing the opposition.

[ChiGoose]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

What happens when they show up at the border… I personally think all you open border hero’s should house a migrant family each or stfu

I’ve already stated it earlier in this thread, but I’m opposed to an open border. I guess just assuming what other people believe is super convenient for the right because it seems to be all you guys ever do. 
 

I also already outlined what I think would help the situation without major changes to immigration law.

 

I personally think that anyone who is ok with the human trafficking currently being done by Texas should be ridiculed, mocked, and shunned from decent society for the rest of their lives. They should never be able to be in public without being shamed.

 

But that’s just me, I guess. 

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

I don’t understand what your fascination is with being incredibly wrong all of the time. You seem to be completely and fundamentally incapable of understanding anything behind the fiction you’ve wrapped yourself in. I’m not sure if you just don’t understand how to read or if you’ve so encased yourself in your fantasyland that you cannot accept or even recognize reality. 

 

Everything seems to just be projection for you. It’s really sad. 

 

Don't make me laugh.  You're a complete automaton for your Dem handlers.  You think like a child and that's about the nicest way I can put it.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

I’ve already stated it earlier in this thread, but I’m opposed to an open border. I guess just assuming what other people believe is super convenient for the right because it seems to be all you guys ever do. 
 

I also already outlined what I think would help the situation without major changes to immigration law.

 

I personally think that anyone who is ok with the human trafficking currently being done by Texas should be ridiculed, mocked, and shunned from decent society for the rest of their lives. They should never be able to be in public without being shamed.

 

But that’s just me, I guess. 

it’s an absolutely appropriate tactic of redistributing the burden of the failed immigration and open border policy on the populations that voted for this. 
 

I cannot think of a more fitting and appropriate action 

[ChiGoose]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Don't make me laugh.  You're a complete automaton for your Dem handlers.  You think like a child and that's about the nicest way I can put it.

LOL. You’re a joke. I’ve only ever voted for a Dem for president once. But apparently explaining reality to people who have isolated themselves in a fantasyland is very triggering to people like you. 

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

it’s an absolutely appropriate tactic of redistributing the burden of the failed immigration and open border policy on the populations that voted for this. 
 

I cannot think of a more fitting and appropriate action 

Yeah, ***** those kids, right? Who cares about kids, families, or people risking everything to survive when you can score political points?

[Doc]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

LOL. You’re a joke. I’ve only ever voted for a Dem for president once. But apparently explaining reality to people who have isolated themselves in a fantasyland is very triggering to people like you. 

 

You wouldn't know reality if it bit you in the ass.  You've proven that time and again.  You're basically just amusement to see how far up the Dem's asses you can be.  And it's even more comedy to hear you proclaim "I'm not for that" like all Dems do when their terrible beliefs and policies come home to roost.

[ChiGoose]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You wouldn't know reality if it bit you in the ass.  You've proven that time and again.  You're basically just amusement to see how far up the Dem's asses you can be.  And it's even more comedy to hear you proclaim "I'm not for that" like all Dems do when their terrible beliefs and policies come home to roost.

I appreciate the entertainment you provide on the rare occasions you are actually able to understand the written word. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by ChiGoose

[Doc]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

I appreciate the entertainment you provide on that rare occasions you are actually able to understand the written word. 

 

I understand what the written word(s) "human trafficking" mean.  It's wholly inapplicable here but since the Dems use it as a talking point (and actually floated the idea of charging DeSantis with it ) it plays to people like you.  You expect me or anyone to take you seriously when you do stuff like that?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

40 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

LOL. You’re a joke. I’ve only ever voted for a Dem for president once. But apparently explaining reality to people who have isolated themselves in a fantasyland is very triggering to people like you. 

Yeah, ***** those kids, right? Who cares about kids, families, or people risking everything to survive when you can score political points?

points? You people are so irresponsible. You want to have these utopian policies so long as it doesn’t impact your life.
 

Then the minute you have to be a little accountable for the unintended consequences because your Whole Foods in Evanston has a couple tents with migrants out front it’s ‘trafficking’ because they are entering your neighborhood instead of overwhelming border towns thousands of miles from you. 
 

Right on brand. greedy hypocritical, fake humanitarians 

You’re not fooling anyone 

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

points? You people are so irresponsible. You want to have these utopian policies so long as it doesn’t impact your life.
 

Then the minute you have to be a little accountable for the unintended consequences because your Whole Foods in Evanston has a couple tents with migrants out front it’s ‘trafficking’ because they are entering your neighborhood instead of overwhelming border towns thousands of miles from you. 
 

Right on brand. greedy hypocritical, fake humanitarians 

You’re not fooling anyone 

Shipping vulnerable people across the country as part of a game to score political points is bad.
 

That shouldn’t be a controversial opinion. 

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Shipping vulnerable people across the country as part of a game to score political points is bad.
 

That shouldn’t be a controversial opinion. 

 

Not to our "independent"

 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Shipping vulnerable people across the country as part of a game to score political points is bad.
 

That shouldn’t be a controversial opinion. 

It’s actually kidnapping

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

points? You people are so irresponsible. You want to have these utopian policies so long as it doesn’t impact your life.
 

Then the minute you have to be a little accountable for the unintended consequences because your Whole Foods in Evanston has a couple tents with migrants out front it’s ‘trafficking’ because they are entering your neighborhood instead of overwhelming border towns thousands of miles from you. 
 

Right on brand. greedy hypocritical, fake humanitarians 

You’re not fooling anyone 

I feel like there is some common ground that can be had here
 

Policies in the cities are too light on crime and I don’t understand it

 

The bussing of immigrants to cities to make the problem worse is a bad look

 

I think that Joe Biden hast to recognize that there is a problem with the influx of too many immigrants over the border and drastic measures need to be taken but those drastic measures should come in the form of hiring new judges now to see these cases and make quick decisions

 

 

[JDHillFan]

2 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Shipping vulnerable people across the country as part of a game to score political points is bad.
 

That shouldn’t be a controversial opinion. 

Playing loose with “human trafficking” aren’t you? 
 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/migrants-ron-desantis-planes-buses-greg-abbott-marthas-vineyard-dc/

 

Are the state operations legal?

When migrants are released by federal officials, they are allowed to travel to a U.S. destination of their choosing. And they can get there through various means, including the buses and planes that some Republican governors are offering them. 

It's not illegal for states to transport migrants if it's voluntary. While critics have accused states of human trafficking and kidnapping, no proof has emerged that migrants have been forced on buses or planes. If the transportation involves coercion or false information, however, civil or criminal liability is possible, lawyers said.

Representatives for Texas and Arizona said their migrant busing operations to D.C., New York and Chicago are voluntary, noting they ask migrants to sign consent waivers. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

9 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

I’m talking about reality. Our immigration system is broken and some people have decided to leverage that for political gain by harming people. Sadly, it seems that this is actually popular with a lot of voters. 
 

Cruelty is the point, I guess. 

Actually, I’m talking about reality.  The system has been broken for decades, if not forever.  People have been moved about for, towns and cities have dealt with the results for decades.   It simply seems there are Americans unwilling to consider doing their fair share, or prefer to offload their share to others.  
 

 

[ChiGoose]

5 hours ago, JDHillFan said:

Playing loose with “human trafficking” aren’t you? 
 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/migrants-ron-desantis-planes-buses-greg-abbott-marthas-vineyard-dc/

 

Are the state operations legal?

When migrants are released by federal officials, they are allowed to travel to a U.S. destination of their choosing. And they can get there through various means, including the buses and planes that some Republican governors are offering them. 

It's not illegal for states to transport migrants if it's voluntary. While critics have accused states of human trafficking and kidnapping, no proof has emerged that migrants have been forced on buses or planes. If the transportation involves coercion or false information, however, civil or criminal liability is possible, lawyers said.

Representatives for Texas and Arizona said their migrant busing operations to D.C., New York and Chicago are voluntary, noting they ask migrants to sign consent waivers. 

Oh, so it might be human trafficking if they were tricked with false information, huh?

The Story Behind DeSantis’s Migrant Flights to Martha’s Vineyard Asylum seekers in Texas were recruited for the flights by a woman who appeared to be a former Army counterintelligence agent. “We were tricked,” one migrant said.

 

“There were jobs there, they were told, and people to help them. The woman provided the mostly destitute migrants with free meals at McDonald’s and a place to stay at a nearby La Quinta Inn before the flight.

 

The migrants each received a red folder containing a map of the United States, with an arrow stretching from Texas to Massachusetts. Another map in the shape of Martha’s Vineyard had a dot for the airport and one for the community services center.

 

Also in the folder was a brochure, apparently fake, titled “Refugee Migrant Benefits,” in English and Spanish. The cover proclaimed, “Massachusetts Welcomes You,” and featured a state flag that was not in fact the state flag. Listed on the back were the names and numbers of a church, a synagogue and a nonprofit on Martha’s Vineyard.

 

The pamphlet, reviewed by The Times, also promised “up to eight months of cash assistance” for “income-eligible” refugees in Massachusetts, apparently mimicking benefits offered to refugees who arrive in the United States through the country’s official resettlement program, which the Venezuelans were not part of.”

 

“We were tricked in Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Mexico — and then in the United States,” said Carlos Guanaguanay, 25, who was approached by the woman called Perla while strolling the aisles of a supermarket near a shelter where he had been staying in San Antonio.

 

He had told her he was searching for work, and she made him an offer he found hard to resist.
 

***
 

Staff members at the community center in Martha’s Vineyard arranged for a migrant named Pablo to call home to Venezuela, Ms. Rolanti said. He appeared broken.

 

“My love, we were tricked,” he told his wife, weeping uncontrollably. “This woman lied to us. She lied.”

Edited October 14, 2023 by ChiGoose

[JDHillFan]

5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Oh, so it might be human trafficking if they were tricked with false information, huh?

The Story Behind DeSantis’s Migrant Flights to Martha’s Vineyard Asylum seekers in Texas were recruited for the flights by a woman who appeared to be a former Army counterintelligence agent. “We were tricked,” one migrant said.

 

“There were jobs there, they were told, and people to help them. The woman provided the mostly destitute migrants with free meals at McDonald’s and a place to stay at a nearby La Quinta Inn before the flight.

 

The migrants each received a red folder containing a map of the United States, with an arrow stretching from Texas to Massachusetts. Another map in the shape of Martha’s Vineyard had a dot for the airport and one for the community services center.

 

Also in the folder was a brochure, apparently fake, titled “Refugee Migrant Benefits,” in English and Spanish. The cover proclaimed, “Massachusetts Welcomes You,” and featured a state flag that was not in fact the state flag. Listed on the back were the names and numbers of a church, a synagogue and a nonprofit on Martha’s Vineyard.

 

The pamphlet, reviewed by The Times, also promised “up to eight months of cash assistance” for “income-eligible” refugees in Massachusetts, apparently mimicking benefits offered to refugees who arrive in the United States through the country’s official resettlement program, which the Venezuelans were not part of.”

 

“We were tricked in Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Mexico — and then in the United States,” said Carlos Guanaguanay, 25, who was approached by the woman called Perla while strolling the aisles of a supermarket near a shelter where he had been staying in San Antonio.

 

He had told her he was searching for work, and she made him an offer he found hard to resist.
 

***
 

Staff members at the community center in Martha’s Vineyard arranged for a migrant named Pablo to call home to Venezuela, Ms. Rolanti said. He appeared broken.

 

“My love, we were tricked,” he told his wife, weeping uncontrollably. “This woman lied to us. She lied.”

Looks like 50 Venezuelans got the short end of the stick by being sent somewhere awful instead of their destination of choice. And the buses from Texas? Tricked? 
 

Human trafficking…why the over the top hyperbole about what’s been happening? Are you equally concerned about the flights that have sent migrants, apparently under several administrations, to destinations uncertain? I don’t recall “human trafficking” complaints from you when that was in the news. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Shipping vulnerable people across the country as part of a game to score political points is bad.
 

That shouldn’t be a controversial opinion. 

Your framing is the only controversy.
 

Relocating people that illegally enter the country to burden the taxpayers supporting this open border policy is 100% reasonable and rational. 
 

we all know why it really bothers you. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

Looks like 50 Venezuelans got the short end of the stick by being sent somewhere awful instead of their destination of choice. And the buses from Texas? Tricked? 
 

Human trafficking…why the over the top hyperbole about what’s been happening? Are you equally concerned about the flights that have sent migrants, apparently under several administrations, to destinations uncertain? I don’t recall “human trafficking” complaints from you when that was in the news. 

We're entering the denial phase.

 

This open border migrant circle-jerk has become a raging dumpster fire, surprise, surprise.  Right on queue, and in typical fashion, the architects and supporters of this chaos are looking to deflect blame, distance themselves from the consequences, memory hole their support, and flee from any responsibility for the fiasco.

 

Now blame anyone and everyone that thought it was a bad idea since day one.

[ChiGoose]

15 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Your framing is the only controversy.
 

Relocating people that illegally enter the country to burden the taxpayers supporting this open border policy is 100% reasonable and rational. 
 

we all know why it really bothers you. 

If you think shipping families across the country and just leaving them at someone’s doorstep with no warning is fun and good, then you’re just a bad person. 
 

If you still believe this open borders nonsense, then you’re a dumb person. 
 

What bothers me, as I have stated, is harming families for political points. I find the idea that someone would do it disgusting and the fact that so many people think it’s good is a shame on our country. 
 

As I stated earlier, if the border states wanted to work with other states to help take in the influx of people and provide them with housing and services, that’s fine and good. Busing people across the country and dropping them off random place with little to no warning is evil. 

[JDHillFan]

6 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

If you think shipping families across the country and just leaving them at someone’s doorstep with no warning is fun and good, then you’re just a bad person. 
 

If you still believe this open borders nonsense, then you’re a dumb person. 
 

What bothers me, as I have stated, is harming families for political points. I find the idea that someone would do it disgusting and the fact that so many people think it’s good is a shame on our country. 
 

As I stated earlier, if the border states wanted to work with other states to help take in the influx of people and provide them with housing and services, that’s fine and good. Busing people across the country and dropping them off random place with little to no warning is evil. 

And if no states want to work with border states then border states just need to suck it up and deal?
 

Tell us about the accommodations for these people in Texas vs anywhere else and how it constitutes “harming families”. Did these families have plans laid out for Eagle Pass? 

 

The whole sanctuary city business was nothing more than virtue signaling by democrat politicians to try to prove moral superiority over the awful people in border areas being overrun. It’s evil that people of your thinking are willing to crap on places like El Paso so long as “sanctuaries” don’t have to put their money where their virtue signaling once was. Isn’t sharing the burden what liberals were once all about?

[ChiGoose]

13 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

And if no states want to work with border states then border states just need to suck it up and deal?
 

Tell us about the accommodations for these people in Texas vs anywhere else and how it constitutes “harming families”. Did these families have plans laid out for Eagle Pass? 

 

The whole sanctuary city business was nothing more than virtue signaling by democrat politicians to try to prove moral superiority over the awful people in border areas being overrun. It’s evil that people of your thinking are willing to crap on places like El Paso so long as “sanctuaries” don’t have to put their money where their virtue signaling once was. Isn’t sharing the burden what liberals were once all about?

If Greg Abbott called up JB Pritzker and said “We cannot handle this influx of people, can you help?” and Pritzker said no, then Abbott can go public with that; showing the hypocrisy of the Dems. 
 

Instead, he is shipping people across the country and delivering them with no warning to different communities. Here, Chicago is working to provide housing and resources for them but it takes time and they aren’t given notice of how many people are arriving and when. These people have trekked hundreds or even thousands of miles to find safety and the GOP is treating them as less than human. 
 

The whole sanctuary city thing is about how do you make people comfortable reporting crime if they are undocumented. If someone witnesses a crime, or is a victim of a crime, they are not likely to report the crime if the believe they will be deported. 
 

This provides great opportunities for abusers and other criminals to take advantage of them. By not handing over suspected illegal immigrants to ICE, sanctuary cities try to provide them with an environment where they can report crime. 
 

Of course, if you listen to the right wing propaganda that actually somehow has convinced people that the Dems want open borders (idiotic and obviously false), then I can see why you are confused as to what a sanctuary city is and means. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

If you think shipping families across the country and just leaving them at someone’s doorstep with no warning is fun and good, then you’re just a bad person. 
 

If you still believe this open borders nonsense, then you’re a dumb person. 
 

What bothers me, as I have stated, is harming families for political points. I find the idea that someone would do it disgusting and the fact that so many people think it’s good is a shame on our country. 
 

As I stated earlier, if the border states wanted to work with other states to help take in the influx of people and provide them with housing and services, that’s fine and good. Busing people across the country and dropping them off random place with little to no warning is evil. 

 

Sure… humanitarian and virtuous with other people’s money and resources. That’s it.  Secretly Greedy, overtly entitled, intellectually dishonest, fraudulently virtuous. Your fake virtue is transparent like a window.
 

Sorry they overwhelmed states are troubling you and your legion of fakers to support in anyway the mess your elected leadership has made incrementally worse with terrible messaging and policy. 
 

zero ***** ownership of your unintended consequences, per usual. 

 

Wake me up when you lift a single finger to put your money where you mouth is, waiting with bated breath. 

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Sure… humanitarian and virtuous with other people’s money and resources. That’s it.  Secretly Greedy, overtly entitled, intellectually dishonest, fraudulently virtuous. Your fake virtue is transparent like a window.
 

Sorry they overwhelmed states are troubling you and your legion of fakers to support in anyway the mess your elected leadership has made incrementally worse with terrible messaging and policy. 
 

zero ***** ownership of your unintended consequences, per usual. 

 

Wake me up when you lift a single finger to put your money where you mouth is, waiting with bated breath. 

 

Bingo.  They're embarrassed that their party's open border policy is the shitshow the Repubs said it would be.  So they have to call it "human trafficking" to (in some warped way) deflect the blame for their party's incompetence, if not willful criminality in not securing the border.  As if that will somehow get them off the hook, much less solve the problem by sending them where they want.  Meanwhile they pay lip service to not supporting an open border but don't demand their party do anything to change it.  It's always "we need to fix a broken immigration system..." and nothing more.

 

And these people somehow managed to scrape together the money to make the expensive (for them, the cartels aren't doing this for free) trek from their faraway countries, endured horrific conditions and treatment...yet sending them to "sanctuary cities" is terrible?  LOL! 

 

No, the reason they bristle at it is because the "stunt" proved what Repubs were saying: that we can't keep allowing this because it's "destroying" the country.  Yet nothing is being done despite so-called sanctuary cities crying poverty.