The disappointing pass rush

[Einstein]

7 hours ago, bills6969 said:

The pass rush is the single weakest link on this team.  Without Miller,  it’s downright bad. Oliver, Boogie, Rousseau and Epenesa have been disappointing.  Rousseau has shown flashes so I’m not totally giving up on him yet.  The others, especially Oliver with his cap hit,  are deadweight.

 

A lot of people raved about Rousseau and Oliver this season.

 

I didn’t see it.

[bills6969]

43 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

A lot of people raved about Rousseau and Oliver this season.

 

I didn’t see it.

Rousseau had 8 sacks this year.  He’s only 22. A lot of potential with this one. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, bills6969 said:

Rousseau had 8 sacks this year.  He’s only 22. A lot of potential with this one. 

He was good with Von, without Von he couldn’t hack it. So far it looks like he’s a sidekick.

[reddogblitz]

I question the platoon thing.  Why not put your best guys out there and let them ball?  I would rather have my top 4 guys in than the 7th - 10th guys.  Do they really get so gassed after a handful of plays that they have to come out for a blow? 

 

The fearsome foursome, Bruce, and Randy White were all able to play the whole game.  

 

Also if you can't get pressure you gotta bring some extra guys.  Against even decent QBs if you play back and try to cover everyone you will get picked apart as we have seen.

[Gunsgoodtime]

5 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

I question the platoon thing.  Why not put your best guys out there and let them ball?  I would rather have my top 4 guys in than the 7th - 10th guys.  Do they really get so gassed after a handful of plays that they have to come out for a blow? 

 

The fearsome foursome, Bruce, and Randy White were all able to play the whole game.  

 

Also if you can't get pressure you gotta bring some extra guys.  Against even decent QBs if you play back and try to cover everyone you will get picked apart as we have seen.

Its also hindering the team, look at all the high round draft picks we have wasted on that DL.  Sure could have used some of those picks on OL and WR.   We should have the best DL in the league with all the draft capital and FA money spent on it. Instead we just have massive holes all in the roster.  Terrible drafting 

[Dr.Sack]

Epenesa was 20 lbs bigger in college. The Bills make their DEs all have 32” waists. It doesn’t work. Sometimes in games weight helps create the push, E = MC2. So by having less mass the Bills are unable to bulrush and instead on slippery conditions get pushed back. Our Edges aren’t all bendable Miller types, they are bullrushers. Let them eat. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Dr.Sack

[Yantha]

11 hours ago, Success said:

Yesterday was a real eye-opener - but we've seen it ever since Miller went down.  The Bengals were missing 3 out of 5 starting O-linemen, and our pass rush was still anemic.

 

They were saying in the post-game how outside of Miller, we don't have 1 guy in the top 40.

 

And we've also seen that many SB champs have this as a strength.  Think of the Bucs line from 2 years ago, or the Rams last year.  Multiple players who are good or great at getting to the passer.

 

How do the Bills fix this?  It feels like they have made every investment they can make - high draft picks, getting the best pass rusher in FA.  It's a glaring weakness.

 

Losing Miller hurt.  May not be able to afford top FA pass rusher, so I'd look to the draft.

[PBF81]

11 hours ago, Success said:

Yesterday was a real eye-opener - but we've seen it ever since Miller went down.  The Bengals were missing 3 out of 5 starting O-linemen, and our pass rush was still anemic.

 

They were saying in the post-game how outside of Miller, we don't have 1 guy in the top 40.

 

And we've also seen that many SB champs have this as a strength.  Think of the Bucs line from 2 years ago, or the Rams last year.  Multiple players who are good or great at getting to the passer.

 

How do the Bills fix this?  It feels like they have made every investment they can make - high draft picks, getting the best pass rusher in FA.  It's a glaring weakness.

 

The most disappointing thing about it, and others have provided the list, but is the number of draft resources Beane has spent on, not protecting Allen, but on the DL and specifically the pass-rush, and on days 1 & 2 of the drafts he's run, on DEs and DTs that simply aren't living anywhere close to their 1st and 2nd round draft statuses.  

 

It's mindboggling the pass that he's gotten on this to date.  

 

And not as if the two OL-men he drafted in rounds 1 & 2, Ford or Brown, have been any good.  They haven't been either.  

 

If it weren't for Allen, the last three or four years would have made the prior 20 look pretty good in contrast.  

 

Let's not forget that McD saw greatness in Peterman.  Even if McD saw average, ... Peterman has a career 39.4 rating.  He's lucky to even have a backup job in the NFL.  

[reddogblitz]

In fairness we, er Poncho Billa drafted Horrible Harry in the 3rd round but we let him go for some reason.

[PBF81]

19 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

I question the platoon thing.  Why not put your best guys out there and let them ball?  I would rather have my top 4 guys in than the 7th - 10th guys.  Do they really get so gassed after a handful of plays that they have to come out for a blow? 

 

The fearsome foursome, Bruce, and Randy White were all able to play the whole game.  

 

Also if you can't get pressure you gotta bring some extra guys.  Against even decent QBs if you play back and try to cover everyone you will get picked apart as we have seen.

IMO it's a way to hide the deficiencies of their draft strategies and "Process" in that way.  

 

Fully agree tho, especially for the higher paid players, like Oliver, who's had just over 50% of the team's defensive snaps.  I don't see how paying someone starting money to play half, or thereabouts, of the games, is a feasible or sustainable method of building a roster.   

[Gunsgoodtime]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

The most disappointing thing about it, and others have provided the list, but is the number of draft resources Beane has spent on, not protecting Allen, but on the DL and specifically the pass-rush, and on days 1 & 2 of the drafts he's run, on DEs and DTs that simply aren't living anywhere close to their 1st and 2nd round draft statuses.  

 

It's mindboggling the pass that he's gotten on this to date.  

 

And not as if the two OL-men he drafted in rounds 1 & 2, Ford or Brown, have been any good.  They haven't been either.  

 

If it weren't for Allen, the last three or four years would have made the prior 20 look pretty good in contrast.  

 

Let's not forget that McD saw greatness in Peterman.  Even if McD saw average, ... Peterman has a career 39.4 rating.  He's lucky to even have a backup job in the NFL.  

I think the light is on now for everyone to see and they will not be getting any more passes.  Its just blatantly obvious now they have drafted terrible and ignored the offense for too long.  Its all catching up to them now

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

I think the light is on now for everyone to see and they will not be getting any more passes.  Its just blatantly obvious now they have drafted terrible and ignored the offense for too long.  Its all catching up to them now

Yeah, but what happens now?  More of the same?  I know they're rhetorical questions, but this team seems more concerned with maintaining relationships than it does about being competitive.  

 

Unless those making these decisions have their authority to do so removed, which typically means firings since they're not going to have their job duties revoked while remaining purely in a ceremonial role, nothing's going to change.  

 

Some posters here have stated the obvious, things unchanged, namely that Allen's time here will be wasted.  

[Gunsgoodtime]

Just now, PBF81 said:

Yeah, but what happens now?  More of the same?  I know they're rhetorical questions, but this team seems more concerned with maintaining relationships than it does about being competitive.  

 

Unless those making these decisions have their authority to do so removed, which typically means firings since they're not going to have their job duties revoked while remaining purely in a ceremonial role, nothing's going to change.  

 

Some posters here have stated the obvious, things unchanged, namely that Allen's time here will be wasted.  

I actually have to agree with what Colin Cowherd said.   You have to go get a Offensive coach, he backed it with very good reasons as why you should do this.  The sooner they do this the better imo, why kick it down the road?  My opinion of Beane and McDermott is that they are at their ceiling, I dont see them getting any better and putting us over the hump.  The roster is likely to start getting worse due to massive contracts and terrible drafting 

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

I actually have to agree with what Colin Cowherd said.   You have to go get a Offensive coach, he backed it with very good reasons as why you should do this.  The sooner they do this the better imo, why kick it down the road?  My opinion of Beane and McDermott is that they are at their ceiling, I dont see them getting any better and putting us over the hump.  The roster is likely to start getting worse due to massive contracts and terrible drafting 

Yup, exactly, agree with it all and have.  

 

The NFL is today an offensive league, ... by design.  

 

30 years ago during our SB years, defense and rushing were the keys.  But today it's exactly the opposite, passing is the key, defense is secondary, and rushing is nice to have but not necessary for a team with a good passing game, particularly a good high-percentage short passing game.  i.e., a short 5-yard pass accomplishes the same exact thing as a 5-yard run.  

 

You're exactly right about their ceiling, I've been saying the same thing.  McD has treated the defense as his little pet project at the expense of the offense.  Why?  Probably because he knows D, as a former DB coach then DC.  

 

I wouldn't mind seeing what Reich could do for three or four seasons.  

[John from Riverside]

And I don’t want to draft a pass rusher with that first round pick been has not shown that he can find a bona fide pass rusher by doing that
 

It’s time to concentrate on the office we need to start doing what these other teams are doing, which is out scoring other teams regardless of how good their defense is

 

Let the defensive minded coach coach up the defense

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

A lot of people raved about Rousseau and Oliver this season.

 

I didn’t see it.

I did when they were healthy the problem is you can’t have just one side or one player be good because they were scheme against you to take them out you got to have balance on both sides of the defense

[Brand J]

I’m fine with a defensive HC, provided his defense isn’t a liability. Bills defense has come up small in every single playoff game against good offenses. The one exception was Baltimore, but they were terribly one dimensional, so I’m not sure if I’d classify that group as a good offense. McD’s defenses have given up an average of 30+ points in these losses. Why do we have him if his schemes come up short time after time after time after time?

 

EDIT: And if I’m Beane, the only way, the ONLY way, I’d allow McD to keep his soft cover 2 defense is if he plans to call the plays himself. Otherwise I’d mandate bringing in a fresh perspective, a coach that may run a different system, but had a proven track record of success elsewhere (Fangio). Promoting the LB or DB coach to take over for Frazier so they can run the same BS isn’t real change.

Edited January 24, 2023 by JayBaller10

[billsfan89]

12 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Miller comes back and Jones is healthy. That's it. We have no cash to sign a good FA and we can't use draft capital — yet again — on a d-lineman as the offense (line and playmers) is the priority. 

Unless we hit on a 5th-round pick or something, we're rolling with what we have. If Miller is healthy and still in shape it should be OK, maybe not great, but OK next year.

Got to develop the guys currently on the roster. 

[Buffalo Junction]

54 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I’m fine with a defensive HC, provided his defense isn’t a liability. Bills defense has come up small in every single playoff game against good offenses. The one exception was Baltimore, but they were terribly one dimensional, so I’m not sure if I’d classify that group as a good offense. McD’s defenses have given up an average of 30+ points in these losses. Why do we have him if his schemes come up short time after time after time after time?

 

EDIT: And if I’m Beane, the only way, the ONLY way, I’d allow McD to keep his soft cover 2 defense is if he plans to call the plays himself. Otherwise I’d mandate bringing in a fresh perspective, a coach that may run a different system, but had a proven track record of success elsewhere (Fangio). Promoting the LB or DB coach to take over for Frazier so they can run the same BS isn’t real change.

I have no clue what’s going on with the Broncos after the Hackett firing, but if they’re cleaning house I’d be all for replacing Frazier with Ejiro Evero. All his players love him, and his scheme would likely mesh with McDermotts. 

5 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He was good with Von, without Von he couldn’t hack it. So far it looks like he’s a sidekick.

He may be. However, he’s still growing into who he is as a player. Rousseau will likely keep improving, especially since he missed a year from Covid… He simply wasn’t equipped to beat the double teams and extra chips he caught after Von went down. Maybe a few more counters and weight training. 
 

One thing I will say…. Regardless of which drafted D-line player we want to bring up (Groot, Basham, Epenesa, Oliver, etc) they haven’t lifted up to their draft status or developed at a normal pace. Either they were poor picks for our scheme, Frazier failed with concepts, or Eric Washington failed to coach them up. I certainly don’t have the answer to that equation, but it certainly seemed like Bill Teerlinck got better results from some of the same talent (Shaq, Phillips). 🤷‍♂️ 

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

But today it's exactly the opposite, passing is the key, defense is secondary, and rushing is nice to have but not necessary for a team with a good passing game, particularly a good high-percentage short passing game.  i.e., a short 5-yard pass accomplishes the same exact thing as a 5-yard run.  

 

Seems to me the Bengals and 49ers have good running games and defenses. 49ers defense is best in the league.  They traded for a RB in mid season.  Eagles defense is stout too as was the Rams last year. Held Joe Burrow and company to 20 in the SB iirc.

[RocCityRoller]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

The most disappointing thing about it, and others have provided the list, but is the number of draft resources Beane has spent on, not protecting Allen, but on the DL and specifically the pass-rush, and on days 1 & 2 of the drafts he's run, on DEs and DTs that simply aren't living anywhere close to their 1st and 2nd round draft statuses.  

 

It's mindboggling the pass that he's gotten on this to date.  

 

And not as if the two OL-men he drafted in rounds 1 & 2, Ford or Brown, have been any good.  They haven't been either.  

 

If it weren't for Allen, the last three or four years would have made the prior 20 look pretty good in contrast.  

 

Let's not forget that McD saw greatness in Peterman.  Even if McD saw average, ... Peterman has a career 39.4 rating.  He's lucky to even have a backup job in the NFL.  

Brown was a late 3rd rounder. Bills have spent 1 quality pick on OL since JA was drafted.

10 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Seems to me the Bengals and 49ers have good running games and defenses. 49ers defense is best in the league.  They traded for a RB in mid season.  Eagles defense is stout too as was the Rams last year. Held Joe Burrow and company to 20 in the SB iirc.

Cowboys too. I know they lost, but the 49ers were held to 19 points. Pollard is a beast who would be a superstar if Jerry Jones could swallow his pride and admit signing Zeke to the last big contract was a mistake.