McCarthy Plans To Cut Debt By Gutting Funds For Veterans

[ALF]

Did Trump and republicans want spending cuts each time they raised the debt ceiling and massive tax cut that raised the deficit 

[Tiberius]

14 hours ago, ALF said:

Did Trump and republicans want spending cuts each time they raised the debt ceiling and massive tax cut that raised the deficit 

Nope 

[BillStime]

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

BACK TO THE THREAD.

 

 

 

The Great Debt Ceiling Deceit

Issues & Insights, by The Editorial Board

 

At the heart of all fearmongering over the debt ceiling “crisis” is the claim that if the federal government can’t borrow more money it won’t be able to pay interest on its existing debt, leading to a default. But that’s poppycock. The government will collect more than a trillion dollars over the next three months. (It collected $638 billion in taxes in April alone.) That will be more than enough to pay interest on the debt. And it will be enough to pay all Social Security benefits, Medicare and Medicaid bills, welfare checks, food stamps. 

 

 

 

 

https://issuesinsights.com/2023/05/15/the-great-debt-ceiling-deceit/

 

 

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[B-Man]

 

 

 

TRUTH.

 

 

 

 

.

[ALF]

Biden wants to reduce tax loopholes to reduce deficit , GOP said naw

[B-Man]

15 minutes ago, ALF said:

Biden wants to reduce tax loopholes to reduce deficit , GOP said naw

 

 

You mean "Tax the rich more" what a new and novel approach..

 

It's not the tax revenue problem,  it is a SPENDING ISSUE.

 

 

 

The White House recently gave Republican congressional leadership a list of proposals to reduce the deficit by closing tax loopholes during the ongoing negotiations over the federal budget and the debt ceiling. But Republican negotiators rejected every item, according to three people familiar with the matter, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe confidential deliberations.

 

On a phone call last week, senior White House officials floated about a dozen tax plans to reduce the deficit as part of a broader budget agreement with House Republicans, including a measure aimed at cryptocurrency transactions and another for large real estate investors, two of the people said. They were all swiftly rejected by the GOP aides on the call, the people said.

 

{snip}

 

Rep. Dusty Johnson (S.D.), a leader of the House GOP’s moderate faction, told reporters Thursday that House Republicans have only two “red lines” in the negotiations, one of which is that the deal not include tax increases. (The other is for the debt ceiling increase to not be “clean,” meaning Republicans will insist on some concessions.)

 

Policy experts sharply diverge on the extent to which new revenue is needed to reduce the deficit. Congressional Republicans have been adamant that the U.S. deficit was caused by rising spending, pointing to trillions of dollars in higher federal outlays during the pandemic.

 

“Despite the federal government collecting as much in taxes from American families as at any point in our history, federal spending is rising even faster and our debt is soaring,” McCarthy and other GOP leaders said in a statement this spring. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/05/15/debt-ceiling-negotiations-deadline-default/

 

.

[ALF]

Warren Buffett said the tax loopholes he and Trump have are a disgrace and unfair.

[All_Pro_Bills]

On 5/15/2023 at 5:47 AM, BillStime said:

 

Its a clever strategy.  The thinking is.  You want something from somebody.  Which in this case is Republican members of the House to defect from the Speakers position on the debt ceiling.  That position being cuts to the budget are a condition of passing the increase in the debt limit.  You don't want any conditions.  The President wants a clean debt limit and compromising while providing the opposition a win in the House is out of the question.  A win-lose is the only option for the administration.  Of course with them getting the "win"

 

So you identify one thing to focus on from the 1,000's of things that will appeal to the senses and priories of  those representatives you want to turn.  In this case veterans benefits.  You don't care one way or the other about maintaining spending for veterans benefits but you're counting on the idea those representatives do and that they can be pressured to cave in to protect spending on this one thing that will give you free spending power over the other things among the 1,000's you find important to your priorities. 

[John from Riverside]

I’m just kind of surprised that the Republicans would take such a big chunk out of the veterans whom they claim to support

 

Myself being a veteran cutting anything regarding Veterans out of the budget sucks can we just not make a couple more missiles and tanks?  I realize it’s not as simple as that, but the military industrial complex does gouge the ***** out of the budget and I know this because I used to buy stuff

[Roundybout]

Why are we keeping these again?

[Tiberius]

A group of Senate Democrats is circulating a letter urging President Biden to prepare to invoke the 14th Amendment to unilaterally resolve the debt ceiling standoff without involving Congress, according to a copy obtained by The Washington Post ahead of its release.

The letter, signed by five senators so far, reflects building unease among White House allies over the direction of negotiations between the president and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) on an agreement expected to cut the deficit and raise the debt limit. Liberal lawmakers have balked as Biden entertains spending cuts and new work requirements on federal aid programs — fueling interest in a solution to the standoff that does not require a deal with McCarthy. The effort comes as House Democrats start to collect signatures for a discharge petition to move legislation that would raise the debt ceiling without any other policy changes, a long-shot procedural move aimed at bypassing the chamber’s Republican leaders.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/17/debt-ceiling-democrats-discharge-petition/

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Why are we keeping these again?

So that the GOP can claim we need to cut spending on things that help the American people 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

A group of Senate Democrats is circulating a letter urging President Biden to prepare to invoke the 14th Amendment to unilaterally resolve the debt ceiling standoff without involving Congress, according to a copy obtained by The Washington Post ahead of its release.

The letter, signed by five senators so far, reflects building unease among White House allies over the direction of negotiations between the president and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) on an agreement expected to cut the deficit and raise the debt limit. Liberal lawmakers have balked as Biden entertains spending cuts and new work requirements on federal aid programs — fueling interest in a solution to the standoff that does not require a deal with McCarthy. The effort comes as House Democrats start to collect signatures for a discharge petition to move legislation that would raise the debt ceiling without any other policy changes, a long-shot procedural move aimed at bypassing the chamber’s Republican leaders.

Why not? 
 

The GQP has bastardized the Second Amendment - I see no reason why Biden can’t use the 14th amendment. 
 

You know Trump would.

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Why not? 
 

The GQP has bastardized the Second Amendment - I see no reason why Biden can’t use the 14th amendment. 
 

You know Trump would.

Yup, put that baby to bed! 

[BillStime]

16 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Yup, put that baby to bed! 

Yup - and let the MAGA tears flow baby 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 5/16/2023 at 9:54 AM, ALF said:

Warren Buffett said the tax loopholes he and Trump have are a disgrace and unfair.

Have you never found it odd that he vehemently supports democrats, funds them while he gripes about his lack of taxation, then when they win he still has these tax loopholes?? Do you think he is forced to exploit the loopholes? Do you think he’s buying these Democrats because he hopes they tax him more? 😂 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Why are we keeping these again?

why don’t you donate more of your paycheck

to the government? 
 

Silly.. Taxing people less doesn’t create debt. Spending money you don’t have creates debt. 
 

do they really need to spend 20 thousand dollars per citizen?

 

I am positive any person with an iota of business acumen could find a way to run a government on 2022’s 6.5 trillion dollars… 

[B-Man]

THE DEBT CEILING FIGHT: WHAT (OR WHO) WORKS?

 

Last week I predicted that the chief sticking point on a deal to raise the debt ceiling wouldn’t be any of the GOP demands for spending restraint, but rather the demand for new work requirements of able bodied welfare recipients.
 

Because the left views welfare and other income support programs as means of entitled redistribution without reciprocal obligation rather than relief from unfortunate circumstances, Democrats would resist

 

And sure enough:

Jeffries says work requirements are a ‘nonstarter’ in debt ceiling fight

The head of the House Democrats said this week that tougher work requirements for social benefits won’t fly with members of his caucus, setting the stage for a drag-out fight with GOP leaders who are insisting on those provisions as a condition of raising the debt ceiling.

House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) on Monday night told members of the Democrats’ Steering and Policy Committee that “work requirements are a nonstarter” as bipartisan negotiators seek a deal to prevent a government default, according to a spokesperson.

 

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/05/the-debt-ceiling-fight-what-or-who-works.phpi

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, B-Man said:

THE DEBT CEILING FIGHT: WHAT (OR WHO) WORKS?

 

Last week I predicted that the chief sticking point on a deal to raise the debt ceiling wouldn’t be any of the GOP demands for spending restraint, but rather the demand for new work requirements of able bodied welfare recipients.
 

Because the left views welfare and other income support programs as means of entitled redistribution without reciprocal obligation rather than relief from unfortunate circumstances, Democrats would resist

 

And sure enough:

Jeffries says work requirements are a ‘nonstarter’ in debt ceiling fight

The head of the House Democrats said this week that tougher work requirements for social benefits won’t fly with members of his caucus, setting the stage for a drag-out fight with GOP leaders who are insisting on those provisions as a condition of raising the debt ceiling.

House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) on Monday night told members of the Democrats’ Steering and Policy Committee that “work requirements are a nonstarter” as bipartisan negotiators seek a deal to prevent a government default, according to a spokesperson.

 

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/05/the-debt-ceiling-fight-what-or-who-works.phpi

Com on man! if people felt like working they wouldn’t be on welfare. 

[Unforgiven]

14 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

why don’t you donate more of your paycheck

to the government? 
 

Silly.. Taxing people less doesn’t create debt. Spending money you don’t have creates debt. 
 

do they really need to spend 20 thousand dollars per citizen?

 

I am positive any person with an iota of business acumen could find a way to run a government on 2022’s 6.5 trillion dollars… 

 All you have to do is cut all the lefty voter bribes.

[ALF]

15 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Have you never found it odd that he vehemently supports democrats, funds them while he gripes about his lack of taxation, then when they win he still has these tax loopholes?? Do you think he is forced to exploit the loopholes? Do you think he’s buying these Democrats because he hopes they tax him more? 😂 

Warren Buffett :

First, my pledge: More than 99% of my wealth will go to philanthropy during my lifetime or at death.

https://givingpledge.org/pledger?pledgerId=177#:~:text=First%2C my pledge%3A More than,my lifetime or at death.

Edited May 18, 2023 by ALF

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

48 minutes ago, ALF said:

Warren Buffett :

First, my pledge: More than 99% of my wealth will go to philanthropy during my lifetime or at death.

https://givingpledge.org/pledger?pledgerId=177#:~:text=First%2C my pledge%3A More than,my lifetime or at death.

exactly charity of his choosing. Like all these wealthy frauds speaking from both sides of their mouth, they could pay more taxes or stop avoiding taxes. 

key highlights; 

1) buffet makes his money from investment income, the dems buffet rule didn’t attack investment income. (This whole schtick is a lie) 

2) irs tables don’t substantiate that a 60k income gets taxed at 30 percent. Also a lie

 

 I don’t love the source but the presentation is compelling. 

 

https://www.glennbeck.com/content/blog/stu/eleve-ways-warren-buffett-is-lying-about-warren-buffett/

 

so to recap, these guys donate millions to politicians who get in power talking about how wealthy people need to pay more taxes. Their people win, tax code changes, then they continue not paying more taxes. 
 

how can you not see this pattern. 

[Tiberius]

20 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

exactly charity of his choosing. Like all these wealthy frauds speaking from both sides of their mouth, they could pay more taxes or stop avoiding taxes. 

key highlights; 

1) buffet makes his money from investment income, the dems buffet rule didn’t attack investment income. (This whole schtick is a lie) 

2) irs tables don’t substantiate that a 60k income gets taxed at 30 percent. Also a lie

 

 I don’t love the source but the presentation is compelling. 

 

https://www.glennbeck.com/content/blog/stu/eleve-ways-warren-buffett-is-lying-about-warren-buffett/

 

so to recap, these guys donate millions to politicians who get in power talking about how wealthy people need to pay more taxes. Their people win, tax code changes, then they continue not paying more taxes. 
 

how can you not see this pattern. 

At least he doesn't want programs that help people cut. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

27 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

At least he doesn't want programs that help people cut. 

 

2 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

Remember when Republicans threw a party at the Rose Garden because they gave some tax cuts to rich folks

 

coming back to hurt us now

Why don’t you pay more taxes? You don’t have to pay the minimum. 

[Tommy Callahan]

17 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Why don’t you pay more taxes? You don’t have to pay the minimum. 

LOL, you must have struck a nerve.  

 

Last I knew the 2017 cuts were across the board and would have even lowered his.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Chris farley

[SoCal Deek]

25 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

why dont you STFU. you have no idea how much I pay in taxes

With all due respect, I think you missed the point of the response. Think about it. Why haven’t we gotten to the point where if you’re a big fan of a centralized Washington power base that supporters would willingly donate more than the minimum to it? Why isn’t it like any other private charity that people donate to. I believe it’s time to change the national conversation on taxation. 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, SUNY_amherst said:

I didn’t miss his point, he posted the same thing over and over.
 

It’s just a stupid point, everyone that posts here could give our entire salaries to the government and it would still be $31 TRILLION in debt

Thanks…but that doesn’t change what I said. The question is why don’t people give more than the minimum? If the government wants to get into the charity business, handing out money to people in need, then shouldn’t certain taxpayers want to give them more of their money to do so? It’s all a write off. 

[BillStime]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Why don’t you pay more taxes? You don’t have to pay the minimum. 

Then don’t B about the deficit bro 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

21 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

I didn’t miss his point, he posted the same thing over and over.
 

It’s just a stupid point, everyone that posts here could give our entire salaries to the government and it would still be $31 TRILLION in debt

you miss the point. The government steals and spends too much money, very wastefully and mostly at the expense of the group between 50% > 98%.  Below it are getting a free ride and paid off for their votes, the ones above are the super elites with the cynical grin saying ‘oh please tax me more’ meanwhile avoiding with all the loopholes their corrupt political buddies created. 

so my point is this, if you support the federal government spending more and think taxes are too low, man up, pay your 30% and stop voting for people who want to lift SALT caps which is tax avoidance for wealthy homeowners. 
 

the debt ceiling is just a political tool. It might as well be 100 trillion once our currency becomes worthless because of these corrupt idiots in charge. 
 

my position is not about the debt ceiling, but the McCarthy deal as I i understand it, is to lock the fed budget at 2022 levels and cap the annual increase. And a government with capped spending is less likely to try and steal more of my income. 
 

mid your are in favor of them stealing more of my income, then you should certainly be ok providing more of your own. 

[SoCal Deek]

28 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

uhh what? The discussion was surrounding policies related to tax cuts, not hand outs

 

donald trump paid practically nothing for years, he hasn’t done shite for charity by the way. And then hosted a party at the rose garden when he gave his rich friends more tax cuts 

 

and now we wonder why the balance sheet is off in the red 

 

You seem desperate to avoid the point. Donald Trump payed exactly what the law said he was supposed to pay. As did his ‘wealthy friends’ and as do almost every single American taxpayer. Trump didn’t write the tax code. Heck, he wasn’t even in government when you seem to be claiming thathe wasn’t paying the appropriate amount. 
 

So the question remains….if you support the seemingly forever expanding role of the federal government, why don’t you donate more than the prescribed minimum to the cause? Hmmm? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You seem desperate to avoid the point. Donald Trump payed exactly what the law said he was supposed to pay. As did his ‘wealthy friends’ and as do almost every single American taxpayer. Trump didn’t write the tax code. Heck, he wasn’t even in government when you seem to be claiming thathe wasn’t paying the appropriate amount. 
 

So the question remains….if you support the seemingly forever expanding role of the federal government, why don’t you donate more than the prescribed minimum to the cause? Hmmm? 

Yes!  There are no "loopholes".  They're exclusions and exceptions typically written into the tax code for the purpose of providing specific interests more favorable tax treatment than that applied to other tax filers. 

 

Big hedge fund donors get special "carried interest" treatment. 

Business gets depreciation, amortization, and depletion treatment for equipment and assets. 

Individuals and joint filers with children get credits and deductions along with preferential tax treatment on certain expenses.  

Home owners get to deduct points and interest on mortgages.

EV buyers (mostly high income individuals that don't really "need" it, I might add) can qualify for $7,500 tax credit for buying an electric vehicle.

And so on.  

 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[Precision]

4 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Yes!  There are no "loopholes".  They're exclusions and exceptions typically written into the tax code for the purpose of providing specific interests more favorable tax treatment than that applied to other tax filers. 

 

Big hedge fund donors get special "carried interest" treatment. 

Business gets depreciation, amortization, and depletion treatment for equipment and assets. 

Individuals and joint filers with children get credits and deductions along with preferential tax treatment on certain expenses.  

Home owners get to deduct points and interest on mortgages.

EV buyers (mostly high income individuals that don't really "need" it, I might add) can qualify for $7,500 tax credit for buying an electric vehicle.

And so on.  

 

 

A lot of people watch MSM and see a headline that someone rich paid little in taxes for a particular year.  Due to incomplete/misleading reporting and the stupidity of the viewers they infer that everyone rich doesn't pay their fair share in taxes.    

 

The truth is the top 10% of earners pay 74% of federal taxes.

[SoCal Deek]

18 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Yes!  There are no "loopholes".  They're exclusions and exceptions typically written into the tax code for the purpose of providing specific interests more favorable tax treatment than that applied to other tax filers. 

 

Big hedge fund donors get special "carried interest" treatment. 

Business gets depreciation, amortization, and depletion treatment for equipment and assets. 

Individuals and joint filers with children get credits and deductions along with preferential tax treatment on certain expenses.  

Home owners get to deduct points and interest on mortgages.

EV buyers (mostly high income individuals that don't really "need" it, I might add) can qualify for $7,500 tax credit for buying an electric vehicle.

And so on.  

 

 

Correct. Virtually every American gets some sort of a tax break. That’s partly why so many get a refund. In essence they are given a break for something they did, paid for, or donated. But people don’t want to look at the breaks they themselves get. They only want to point figures at the ‘breaks’ that other people get. 
 

My point still remains. Why aren’t we having a national conversation about paying more than the minimum? For example, in California right now they’re debating the topic of reparations. But the Governor has explained that the State doesn’t have the money in the budget. So why not set up a special fund where so-inclined citizens can freely donate to this cause? Seems like it would be a nice thing…no? 

Edited May 18, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

27 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You seem desperate to avoid the point. Donald Trump payed exactly what the law said he was supposed to pay. As did his ‘wealthy friends’ and as do almost every single American taxpayer. Trump didn’t write the tax code. Heck, he wasn’t even in government when you seem to be claiming thathe wasn’t paying the appropriate amount. 
 

So the question remains….if you support the seemingly forever expanding role of the federal government, why don’t you donate more than the prescribed minimum to the cause? Hmmm? 

I’ve never met a democrat who thinks taxes should be raised that don’t actually mean ‘taxes should be raised on everyone else, but not me’. 
 

I’ve also never met a democrat who thinks taxes should be raised, that themselves don’t do everything they can to limit their tax burden and payment. 

I’ve met plenty who are more than generous donating more of other peoples money to the government 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’ve never met a democrat who thinks taxes should be raised that don’t actually mean ‘taxes should be raised on everyone else, but not me’. 
 

I’ve also never met a democrat who thinks taxes should be raised, that themselves don’t do everything they can to limit their tax burden and payment. 

I’ve met plenty who are more than generous donating more of other peoples money to the government 

Thanks

I say it every tax season. Are TurboTax and HR Block running running all of those advertisements so that people will pay MORE in taxes? They don’t even run ads that claim they’re going to help you be more accurate in your filing. Nope, every single advertisement is about getting you a bigger REFUND! 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks

I say it every tax season. Are TurboTax and HR Block running running all of those advertisements so that people will pay MORE in taxes? They don’t even run ads that claim they’re going to help you be more accurate in your filing. Nope, every single advertisement is about getting you a bigger REFUND! 

If you really want to expose democrats’ ideals, suggest that you think only tax payers should be able to vote or their vote should count more, even if they aren’t citizens since they are net contributors to the system nonetheless. 😂

 

xenophobia will ooze from their pores. 

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

If you really want to expose democrats’ ideals, suggest that you think only tax payers should be able to vote or their vote should count more, even if they aren’t citizens since they are net contributors to the system nonetheless. 😂

 

xenophobia will ooze from their pores. 

I’m far less cynical. I’m being completely honest when I say we need a national conversation on this topic. As an example, we no longer have a military draft, and everyone just accepts that some young people are going to voluntarily sign up. Why not have that conversation around taxes? If you feel real strongly about funding a government program then volunteer to pay more into it! We had a Buffalo Bills player go down on the field last season and people immediately rushed to donate to causes he supported. Why is it that we all have to donate to every left wing social cause, even when those causes are most definitely NOT the role of the federal government?

Edited May 18, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, SUNY_amherst said:

 

well the signature (only) accomplishment from trump's time as president was a significant overhaul of the tax code that gave breaks to rich billionaires like himself.

 

notice he didn't campaign on that, but it was right away the first thing they worked on

 

--

 

Surely there are better options than "hey bro, why don't you pay a little more then huh?" when it comes to discussing policymaking. I think we are smarter than that here

And so let’s go over this again, for some of our posters who were either too young, or asleep, during the Great Recession. President Obama raised the tax rate on the top earners on the principle that the country needed their financial assistance during the recession. With the recession clearly over President Trump simply restored the rate to pre-recession levels…and then gave an additional tax break to EVERYONE else. Sheeessh! 

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

yeah, okay, lol

 

 

Facts are nasty things....huh? LOL

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

30 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m far less cynical. I’m being completely honest when I say we need a national conversation on this topic. As an example, we no longer have a military draft, and everyone just accepts that some young people are going to voluntarily sign up. Why not have that conversation around taxes? If you feel real strongly about funding a government program then volunteer to pay more into it! We had a Buffalo Bills player go down on the field last season and people immediately rushed to donate to causes he supported. Why is it that we all have to donate to every left wing social cause, even when those causes are most definitely NOT the role of the federal government?

 
Im pretty cynical…  still only a handful of weeks since the annual document submission of the legalized pillaging.

 

love the idea…  how about being able to opt out of SS, have options to buy a private post career Medicare, and have a line item checklist of which government service we wish to donate to or not. And the more dollars we offer the more say we get in what is done with the money.