Biden, A Good American President, Pilfers Classified Docs

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

15 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

what's wrong with the vette?  Iconic American muscle car, turned F1 racer.  You guys are never happy.

Nothing wrong with the  Corvette, it’s a beautiful car sought out by your prototypical rich guy with the money to buy such things and the ability to seek out top notch hair replacement therapy.  
 

The dopey part was his insinuation that he treated issues of national security on par with his Corvette.   
 

FYI—I’ve never run the numbers, but I’d say I’m happy about 95% of the time.  
 

 

 

[Doc]

29 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

negligence versus organized attempts to override the legal system.  Both bad for sure.  One more sinister than the other imo.

 

They're both equally sinister.  Or not.

[sherpa]

35 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

negligence versus organized attempts to override the legal system.  Both bad for sure.  One more sinister than the other imo.

 

Gross, seemingly uncaring negligence by both him and his staff all of which he has decried and claim he was above in the recent past.

 

Gets you potentially court martialed and in jail in other, less privileged but supposed to be just as responsible organizations.

Totally irresponsible and stupid.

 

I had one experience with this during service time.

We had a safe where the stuff was stored, and materials were logged in and out.

One guy checked out a TS document which was not allowed out of the squadron building.

We do doing an Air Force thing at Nellis, and somebody spotted the red cover and binder in the back of a rental.

The guy was not prosecuted, but offered a deal he couldn't refuse. He was out of the service in one month.

 

The items likely discussed in the presidential/vice presidential nonsense were likely briefing documents that are prepared by intel orgs for reading.

Staff members should be tasked with providing them and returning them.

 

Just gross failures and negligence.

 

[Doc]

33 minutes ago, sherpa said:

Gross, seemingly uncaring negligence by both him and his staff all of which he has decried and claim he was above in the recent past.

 

Gets you potentially court martialed and in jail in other, less privileged but supposed to be just as responsible organizations.

Totally irresponsible and stupid.

 

I had one experience with this during service time.

We had a safe where the stuff was stored, and materials were logged in and out.

One guy checked out a TS document which was not allowed out of the squadron building.

We do doing an Air Force thing at Nellis, and somebody spotted the red cover and binder in the back of a rental.

The guy was not prosecuted, but offered a deal he couldn't refuse. He was out of the service in one month.

 

The items likely discussed in the presidential/vice presidential nonsense were likely briefing documents that are prepared by intel orgs for reading.

Staff members should be tasked with providing them and returning them.

 

Just gross failures and negligence.

 

They have this fantasy that Biden is chaste and above reproach.  It's really odd.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

They have this fantasy that Biden is chaste and above reproach.  It's really odd.

not chaste but decent.  he f'd up here and it will appropriately cost him.  trump's indecent and leading others into indecency.  he f's up all the time, often purposefully and it only occasionally costs him.  I get it.  life's not fair.  but I don't cheer for cheaters.

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

not chaste but decent.  he f'd up here and it will appropriately cost him.  trump's indecent and leading others into indecency.  he f's up all the time, often purposefully and it only occasionally costs him.  I get it.  life's not fair.  but I don't cheer for cheaters.

 

He's not decent either.  He's a career politician.  The slimiest of the slimy.  

[ChiGoose]

2 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

Cooperating with law enforcement is not a sign of innocence except to those who already have made their determination of guilt. Trump has always cooperated except when the media said he did not. 

Lol. Are you high?

[Tommy Callahan]

10 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Lol. Are you high?

So list his convictions of crimes.  or the OP comment stands.

 

The MEDIA and lefties want people to focus on the basement. 

 

But the real deal is the classified docs found in his Office at the Penn, Biden Think tank. the one where his office did not even open till 2018. and was found by his personal lawyers.

 

Biden had no authority to even see them in 2018, better yet have them at that very shady think tank. (Blinken also worked at, at the same time) Same with his Personal lawyers that found them back in November.  

 

 

[ChiGoose]

2 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

So list his convictions of crimes.  or the OP comment stands.

 

The MEDIA and lefties want people to focus on the basement. 

 

But the real deal is the classified docs found in his Office at the Penn, Biden Think tank. the one where his office did not even open till 2018. and was found by his personal lawyers.

 

Biden had no authority to even see them in 2018, better yet have them at that very shady think tank. (Blinken also worked at, at the same time) Same with his Personal lawyers that found them back in November.  

 

 

The poster is saying the Trump cooperates with law enforcement. I can’t think of a single instance in which this is true. 
 

We are talking about a guy who obtained much of his wealth through fraud, avoided taxes by lying, routinely flouts the law, commits obstruction as such a normal part of his day that literally half the Mueller report was about him obstructing Justice, and refused to return documents he shouldn’t have, even lying about them to law enforcement. 
 

At this point, it’s more likely that Trump is three kids in a trench coat than it is that he cooperates with law enforcement. 

[Tommy Callahan]

1 minute ago, ChiGoose said:

The poster is saying the Trump cooperates with law enforcement. I can’t think of a single instance in which this is true. 
 

We are talking about a guy who obtained much of his wealth through fraud, avoided taxes by lying, routinely flouts the law, commits obstruction as such a normal part of his day that literally half the Mueller report was about him obstructing Justice, and refused to return documents he shouldn’t have, even lying about them to law enforcement. 
 

At this point, it’s more likely that Trump is three kids in a trench coat than it is that he cooperates with law enforcement. 

Half the Mueller report has now been found out to be pure falsehoods. more like propaganda to control a narrative than an investigation.  Similar to the 9/11 one.

 

IF he was criminal, he would have a criminal record. IE, a conviction.

 

Shady, hell yeah. Criminal? that would have this thing called a criminal record to make it so.

 

or at least one conviction.

 

BTW. when did Mueller know Sussman was working for Clinton?  he kind of left that entire part out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChiGoose]

Just now, Chris farley said:

Half the Mueller report has now been found out to be pure falsehoods. more like propaganda to control a narrative than an investigation.  Similar to the 9/11 one.

 

IF he was criminal, he would have a criminal record. IE, a conviction.

 

Shady, hell yeah. Criminal? that would have this thing called a criminal record to make it so.

 

or at least one conviction.

 

BTW. when did Mueller know Sussman was working for Clinton?  he kind of left that entire part out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, I see. You don’t live in reality. My bad. 
 

Go on believing whatever garbage you’re being fed. 

[Tommy Callahan]

LMAO.

 

when did Mueller know Sussman was working for Clinton?

 

 

 

But totally grasp and expected you to go ad hominem.

 

 

[ChiGoose]

Ok, so I know this is absolutely pointless because Occam’s Razor is apparently illegal on this site, but what do we think is more likely given the known facts:

 

1. When packing up Biden’s things at the end of the Obama administration, classified documents were inadvertently included with his things. When this was discovered many years later, he notified authorities and kicked off a search of all of his stuff to see if there were more documents that needed to be turned over. 
 

2. Biden intentionally took classified documents for nefarious reasons and then suddenly decided that he wanted to get in trouble for it, so he called up the authorities to confess. And instead of just handing everything over, he handed the documents over in batches to keep the story in the headlines and continue to hurt himself politically. 
 

The facts we have only support scenario 1 but it seems like most people here believe scenario 2 because it feels good to them. “Feelings over facts” should be the motto of PPP. 

 

BTW: It’s good that DoJ appointed a conservative special counsel to investigate Biden. If it comes out that this was all intentional, he should face consequences. It’s just that the current facts don’t support that conclusion. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by ChiGoose

[BillStime]

15 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Half the Mueller report has now been found out to be pure falsehoods

Substantiate  

[sherpa]

4 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Ok, so I know this is absolutely pointless because Occam’s Razor is apparently illegal on this site, but what do we think is more likely given the known facts:

 

1. When packing up Biden’s things at the end of the Obama administration, classified documents were inadvertently included with his things. When this was discovered many years later, he notified authorities and kicked off a search of all of his stuff to see if there were more documents that needed to be turned over. 
 

2. Biden intentionally took classified documents for nefarious reasons and then suddenly decided that he wanted to get in trouble for it, so he called up the authorities to confess. And instead of just handing everything over, he handed the documents over in batches to keep the story in the headlines and continue to hurt himself politically. 
 

The facts we have only support scenario 1 but it seems like most people here believe scenario 2 because of it feels good to them. “Feelings over facts” should be the motto of PPP. 

 

BTW: It’s good that DoJ appointed a conservative special counsel to investigate Biden. If it comes out that this was all intentional, he should face consequences. It’s just that the current facts don’t support that conclusion. 

 

The "facts?"

 

The facts are that intentional or not, he was responsible for properly handling them.

 

The political "class" in this country has diferentiated itself form others, who are sworn to uphold these type of responsibilities.

 

The "feelings," true or not, are yours's.

 

[Tommy Callahan]

7 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

2. Biden intentionally took classified documents for nefarious reasons and then suddenly decided that he wanted to get in trouble for it, so he called up the authorities to confess. And instead of just handing everything over, he handed the documents over in batches to keep the story in the headlines and continue to hurt himself politically. 

How did they get to that office in the biden, penn think tank in 2018?

 

 

[ChiGoose]

Just now, sherpa said:

 

The "facts?"

 

The facts are that intentional or not, he was responsible for properly handling them.

 

The political "class" in this country has diferentiated itself form others, who are sworn to uphold these type of responsibilities.

 

The "feelings," true or not, are yours's.

 

Yeah, and it was wrong for him to have them. But in terms of legal consequences, he isn’t facing serious repercussions at this point because it appears to be a case of negligence and cooperation with law enforcement, not intentional with obstruction. 

[Tommy Callahan]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

Yeah, and it was wrong for him to have them. But in terms of legal consequences, he isn’t facing serious repercussions at this point because it appears to be a case of negligence and cooperation with law enforcement, not intentional with obstruction. 

How did they get to the office in the think tank. and why were they found by lawyers in November, but not even reported till this week?

 

 

[ChiGoose]

Just now, Chris farley said:

How did they get to the office in the think tank. and why were they found by lawyers in November, but not even reported till this week?

 

 

Good question for the special counsel but if I had to guess: in a box with other stuff. That’s generally how I’ve done it when I have moved. 

[The Frankish Reich]

3 hours ago, sherpa said:

I had one experience with this during service time.

We had a safe where the stuff was stored, and materials were logged in and out.

One guy checked out a TS document which was not allowed out of the squadron building.

We do doing an Air Force thing at Nellis, and somebody spotted the red cover and binder in the back of a rental.

The guy was not prosecuted, but offered a deal he couldn't refuse. He was out of the service in one month.

Exactly. One of my experiences in the civilian sector:

 

I supervised a guy who was, without a doubt, the most honest person I ever supervised in the federal government. He would take half a day off for a dentist appointment, then email me to say the appointment went unusually fast and he only needed to take an hour and a half of leave. And lots of other things like that when no one was looking. He was working with a classified file. He got distracted by a call or email or whatever. He went to the restroom, leaving the file on his desk. No reason to think anyone saw it; he was gone for 5 minutes. He called me to self-report a violation. I had to refer it up. That triggered a full investigatory team from DC. They interviewed him. They investigated whether he had any unusual contacts recently. The interviewed everyone with access to his office. Thank goodness they finally found (correctly) no potential damage to national security. He kept his job (and got promoted to my job later on) with just a letter or reprimand: "be more careful."

 

That's one document, one honest guy, one honest mistake, one immediate self-report. 

 

Biden, like Trump, will get the full treatment, and he deserves it. His sloppiness or whatever has, at a minimum, taken away a really good talking point for him in the next election. Right now the apparent immediate self-report upon (apparently) discovering the docs is a positive, but we don't -- and won't -- know the full story for some time. 

[Tommy Callahan]

Anyone read about these shady China donations to Penn College right after the Biden Penn Think tank was created?

 

https://nypost.com/2022/04/09/54m-in-chinese-gifts-donated-to-upenn-home-of-biden-center/

 

The think take main page is all kinds of strange. 

 

Penn Biden Center (upenn.edu)

 

Front page has a picture of him and Xi Trudeau in an embrace.

 

Addressing threats to the World Liberal Order????

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChiGoose]

7 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Anyone read about these shady China donations to Penn College right after the Biden Penn Think tank was created?

 

https://nypost.com/2022/04/09/54m-in-chinese-gifts-donated-to-upenn-home-of-biden-center/

 

The think take main page is all kinds of strange. 

 

Penn Biden Center (upenn.edu)

 

Front page has a picture of him and Xi Trudeau in an embrace.

 

Addressing threats to the World Liberal Order????

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see we have reached the Pepe Silvia stage. 
 

“Liberal” in that context almost certainly means liberalism in the sense of democracy (where countries such as China, Hungary, and Russia are illiberal). It clearly isn’t liberal as in conservative and liberal in the US domestic policy sense. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by ChiGoose

[Tommy Callahan]

Its all kinds of cringe. 

 

So Corporatism is what he means.

 

 

[JDHillFan]

24 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Yeah, and it was wrong for him to have them. But in terms of legal consequences, he isn’t facing serious repercussions at this point because it appears to be a case of negligence and cooperation with law enforcement, not intentional with obstruction. 

It’s clear you have never worked in the classified world. Negligence counts. 

[B-Man]

 

 

Was the Mar-a-Lago Raid a Biden Insurance Policy?

by David Catron

 

Much of the commentary concerning the presence of classified documents at the Penn Biden Center office and the President’s Delaware home has focused on the delay between the discovery and the public revelation of that discovery. And it is difficult to believe that the timing was apolitical. There is another question about the timing, however, that no one seems to have asked: Why were classified documents that had been in Biden’s possession since 2017 suddenly found less than 90 days after the FBI raid on former President Trump’s Mar-a-Lago compound?

 

 

https://spectator.org/was-the-mar-a-lago-raid-a-biden-insurance-policy/

[ChiGoose]

6 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

It’s clear you have never worked in the classified world. Negligence counts. 

Can you point to the cases where someone negligently had classified documents, cooperated with authorities when they realized it, and was prosecuted?

[JDHillFan]

3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Can you point to the cases where someone negligently had classified documents, cooperated with authorities when they realized it, and was prosecuted?

While I’m doing that research, should I expand it to people that have lost their jobs over such a matter? You no doubt think you’re talking a good game here but you really don’t know anything about the classified world. That’s more than clear.

[ChiGoose]

1 minute ago, JDHillFan said:

While I’m doing that research, should I expand it to people that have lost their jobs over such a matter? You no doubt think you’re talking a good game here but you really don’t know anything about the classified world. That’s more than clear.

Sure. My point has always been that Biden having the documents is bad but unlike with Trump, I wouldn’t expect an indictment given the known facts. 

[B-Man]

 

A bit overstated, but they made the rules.

 

 

End of an error of shielding the Bidens as classified documents scandal puts Joe’s presidency in peril

by Michael Goodwin

 

A favorite saying among insiders is that two weeks is a lifetime in politics, meaning anything can happen. In Joe Biden’s case, a mere five days was enough to turn his world upside down. The news Saturday that more classified documents were found in his Delaware home ends a bizarre week that suddenly put Biden’s presidency in peril and further damaged the sagging credibility of the Department of Justice.

 

 

https://nypost.com/2023/01/14/classified-documents-scandal-puts-biden-presidency-in-peril/?_gl=1*1qhowbd*_ga*MTU3MjQ2NDM1NS4xNjU5MDA2NjU1*_ga_0DZ7LHF5PZ*MTY3Mzc4NzM4MC40MC4xLjE2NzM3ODc0MzcuMC4wLjA.&_ga=2.48435808.759599218.1673634301-1572464355.1659006655

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

37 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Exactly. One of my experiences in the civilian sector:

 

I supervised a guy who was, without a doubt, the most honest person I ever supervised in the federal government. He would take half a day off for a dentist appointment, then email me to say the appointment went unusually fast and he only needed to take an hour and a half of leave. And lots of other things like that when no one was looking. He was working with a classified file. He got distracted by a call or email or whatever. He went to the restroom, leaving the file on his desk. No reason to think anyone saw it; he was gone for 5 minutes. He called me to self-report a violation. I had to refer it up. That triggered a full investigatory team from DC. They interviewed him. They investigated whether he had any unusual contacts recently. The interviewed everyone with access to his office. Thank goodness they finally found (correctly) no potential damage to national security. He kept his job (and got promoted to my job later on) with just a letter or reprimand: "be more careful."

 

That's one document, one honest guy, one honest mistake, one immediate self-report. 

 

Biden, like Trump, will get the full treatment, and he deserves it. His sloppiness or whatever has, at a minimum, taken away a really good talking point for him in the next election. Right now the apparent immediate self-report upon (apparently) discovering the docs is a positive, but we don't -- and won't -- know the full story for some time. 

There is a 100% failure rate from the last two presidential elections on national security issues. 
 

My assumption is none of these jamokes at the highest level of govt have historically been concerned about national security issues, likely because they all know it’s common.   “Mutually assured destruction” is a phrase that comes to mind.

 

For those keeping track, both parties have national security issues, both parties support questioning the integrity of our elections, and so on and so on. 
 

 

 

 

[Doc]

22 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Sure. My point has always been that Biden having the documents is bad but unlike with Trump, I wouldn’t expect an indictment given the known facts. 

 

Any belief/hopes that Trump is getting indicted dies when they found those documents in Joke's garage.  Unless you agree that Joke should be indicted as well.

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

Lol. Are you high?

I assume you have an example of where he hindered an investigation into an actual crime?

[ChiGoose]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Any belief/hopes that Trump is getting indicted dies when they found those documents in Joke's garage.  Unless you agree that Joke should be indicted as well.

For probably the millionth time:

 

The difference between the two is that Trump obstructed law enforcement. And you can easily prove intent with Trump.

 

So no. Given the current facts, I would expect an indictment for Trump but not for Biden. 

Just now, Orlando Tim said:

I assume you have an example of where he hindered an investigation into an actual crime?

Literally the entirety of Part 2 of the Mueller report AND the obstruction of the documents investigation are examples of Trump obstructing an investigation and refusing to cooperate with authorities. 

[B-Man]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

For probably the millionth time:

 

The difference between the two is that Trump obstructed law enforcement. And you can easily prove intent with Trump.

 

 

 

 

 This is false.

 

 

But keep repeating it as your "fact"

 

No one expects any more of you.

 

 

 

.

[ChiGoose]

3 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 This is false.

 

 

But keep repeating it as your "fact"

 

No one expects any more of you.

 

 

 

.

How is it false?

 

He was asked to return the documents but refused. For most of a year, he was on notice that he needed to return the documents but he would not do so. 
 

He then returned some documents and lied, saying it was all of them. 
 

That is basically the definition of obstruction. 

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

For probably the millionth time:

 

The difference between the two is that Trump obstructed law enforcement. And you can easily prove intent with Trump.

 

So no. Given the current facts, I would expect an indictment for Trump but not for Biden. 

 

Wrong.  Joke had documents discovered at the Penn-Biden center in November.  Two months later they found more in his garage next to his car.  Since we've seen him driving his car there is no way to claim he didn't know the documents were there.  That's a crime and so is keeping them in his garage.

 

The best you're going to get a no indictment for either guy.  Indicting Trump and not Joke will be both politically horrible for the Dems and maybe worse.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Doc

[ChiGoose]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Wrong.  Joke had documents discovered at the Penn-Biden center in November.  Two months later they just found more in his garage next to his car.  Since we've seen him driving his car there is no way to claim he didn't know the documents were there.  That's a crime and so is keeping them in his garage.

Has everyone forgotten the existence of boxes? Like, do you think he had a document marked classified sitting on the passenger seat of his vette? Or does he have X-ray vision and can automatically detect that there’s a classified document in any room?

 

If it comes out during the investigation that he knew about the documents, then that changes things. But you’re just speculating based on what you want to be true. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by ChiGoose

[Tommy Callahan]

The bigger thing is the nature of the documents. We know in this case, unlike in Trump’s, that these are potentially very incriminating documents. They relate to Ukraine. The president’s son was taking millions of dollars from Ukraine and from China. They’re housed in a place that China helped to fund. There’s some really questionable things here and I guess the last big question that has to be answered is did Hunter Biden, who was on the pay of Ukraine and China, we know this, did he have access to these documents, and if he did, why, and what does that mean?

 

Thats definitely valid.

 

On Wednesday, Rep. James Comer, the chair of the House Oversight Committee, requested the National Archives disclose “all documents and communications between or among the White House and the Department of Justice or NARA [National Archives and Records Administration] regarding the documents retrieved from President Biden’s personal office at the Penn Biden Center.” The National Archives has apparently not complied. Comer told Fox News on Saturday the National Archives is stonewalling the Oversight Committee’s investigation.

 

That seems kosher.

[Westside]

3 hours ago, redtail hawk said:

not chaste but decent.  he f'd up here and it will appropriately cost him.  trump's indecent and leading others into indecency.  he f's up all the time, often purposefully and it only occasionally costs him.  I get it.  life's not fair.  but I don't cheer for cheaters.

Decent? He’s a crook and a racist. Nothing decent about him.

[Tommy Callahan]

13 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

For probably the millionth time:

 

The difference between the two is that Trump obstructed law enforcement. And you can easily prove intent with Trump.

 

So no. Given the current facts, I would expect an indictment for Trump but not for Biden. 

Literally the entirety of Part 2 of the Mueller report AND the obstruction of the documents investigation are examples of Trump obstructing an investigation and refusing to cooperate with authorities. 

you are trying so hard.

 

The Mueller report again.  

 

And Obstruction.  lmao

 

Why didnt we hear about the Docs in PENN back in November, last week?