Matt Araiza accused of rape, served with a lawsuit.

[Beck Water]

35 minutes ago, muppy said:

SMH wow. As...My...Stomach....Turns.

 

Welcome to life on the modern college campus

 

35 minutes ago, muppy said:

I have a question. Have any DNA results been released?

 

No

 

35 minutes ago, muppy said:

But even if they have the fact his ***** may be present,  so would it be for the other suspects you would think . I don't think DNA will solve this case.

 

Correct, although the rape kit will go beyond DNA to document other physical evidence.  But you're identifying one reason why there is a backlog of rape kits - in many cases, there isn't dispute that sexual acts took place and DNA will be present, the question is one of consent or force which DNA doesn't address.

[Doc]

25 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I have a daughter Araiza's age and friends with college age kids on different campuses, so I'm well aware of modern college life and what goes on.

 

And you know what?  A damned lot of kids on college campuses these days are in fact, basically decent people who take some moral responsibility for their fellow human beings, and would help the girl find her friends or call for a ride home. ( No, especially if he were drinking as well, he should not have driven her home.)

 

If that were not true, frankly, the estimates for the prevalence of sexual assault on campus would be higher than 16.5% or 20%. 

 

And there are studies which imply that the majority of problems may in fact be caused by a relatively small number of sexual predators who are enabled by the current culture of binge drinking and hookups and people like yourself, who normalize an "I Am Not My Brother's Keeper" attitude.

 

The moral bankruptcy of those who "take no responsibility, legal OR OTHERWISE" for a fellow human being isn't changed because some people are bad actors.

 

I'll shut up now.

 

We'll agree to disagree on whether a guy who has a casual hookup with a girl is suddenly responsible for her for the rest of her night.  What I will agree with is that if more people did what they should, and didn't do what they shouldn't be doing, it would be a much better place.

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Doc

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

If that's really her and that's the night/place it happened, that's an exculpatory video for Araiza as far as the statutory rape claim is concerned (and I'm sure the DA has seen it).  Although you don't need any evidence to know she's lying when she claims that a) she was at a college party and admitted she was 17 (no one has ever done this) and b) that she was too drunk to give consent (since she's admitted to having non-forced sex with him so she obviously remembers it).  But for good measure, Araiza's attorney has people lined-up to testify to that effect and probably has this and maybe even more video of the night in question.  I hope he releases it all.

 

I'm going back on my word, because in the spirit of maintaining civil discourse I think it's important to document points of agreement.  And I fundamentally agree with you here.

 

Although I'll point out that being able to give consent at one point in the evening doesn't mean she wasn't too drunk to give consent at a later point, and that one can be mentally able to remember drunk activities without being mentally able to give consent during them.  But that's a problematic blurred line.

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

It's also hard to believe Araiza would have already had her alone outside and then gone back inside for 2nds in a gang rape.  But while I'm certain she's lying about Araiza WRT the first encounter, against my better judgment I'm inclined to believe her about being gang raped, but not that he was involved.  However after seeing that video...

 

This will probably surprise you, being I have no idea what goes on in college these days and all, but I don't find it hard to believe.

 

There have been cases where, for want of a better word, guys would "pander" for their teammates or frat bros.  One guy would find a tipsy, DTF-type girl, maybe one who's already had some kind of hookup, give her a spiked drink, and basically take her to a room where she'd be sexually assaulted.  The sexual assault is real, but it's problematic for both college administrators and for LEO to deal with because of social attitudes that if a girl is bragging about her "body count" and DTF with one guy at 1 am, she's probably DTF with 4 guys at 2 am (or at best, that it's a challenge to prove otherwise beyond a reasonable doubt)

 

The horrific Vanderbilt rape case is another example of this behavior, that was cracked only because of video evidence.  In one situation, it led to a police "sting" where they tested the punch bowl for date rape drugs at a frat party and whatcha know, they found them (this was at Brown University btw).  In another, it led to some students spray painting "Rapists Live Here" across the front of a frat house because this sort of thing was known to the students to be happening and the university wasn't taking action.

 

22 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

We'll agree to disagree on whether a guy who has a casual hookup with a girl is suddenly responsible for her for the rest of her night.  What I will agree with is that if more people did what they should, and didn't do what they shouldn't be doing, it would be a much better place.

 

 

This actually heartens me, because it's good to find points of agreement.

 

I'll also add that I'm impatient with the whole "No means No, but women should be able to dress and behave exactly as they choose otherwise" attitude some folks take, because it ignores the problem that the whole hookup/binge drinking culture creates situations where consent is inherently problematic to determine even for people of good will who are trying to be decent.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Beck Water

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I'm going back on my word, because in the spirit of maintaining civil discourse I think it's important to document points of agreement.  And I fundamentally agree with you here.

 

Although I'll point out that being able to give consent at one point in the evening doesn't mean she wasn't too drunk to give consent at a later point, and that one can be mentally able to remember drunk activities without being mentally able to give consent during them.  But that's a problematic blurred line.

 

 

This will probably surprise you, being I have no idea what goes on in college these days and all, but I don't find it hard to believe.

 

There have been cases where, for want of a better word, guys would "pander" for their teammates or frat bros.  One guy would find a tipsy, DTF-type girl, maybe one who's already had some kind of hookup, give her a spiked drink, and basically take her to a room where she'd be sexually assaulted.  The sexual assault is real, but it's problematic for both college administrators and for LEO to deal with because of social attitudes that if a girl is bragging about her "body count" and DTF with one guy at 1 am, she's probably DTF with 4 guys at 2 am. 

 

The horrific Vanderbilt rape case is another example of this, that was cracked only because of video evidence.  In one situation, it led to a police "sting" where they tested the punch bowl for date rape drugs at a frat party and whatcha know, they found them (this was at Brown University btw).  In another, it led to some students spray painting "Rapists Live Here" across the front of a frat house because this sort of thing was known to the students to be happening and the university wasn't taking action.

 

 

This actually heartens me, because it's good to find points of agreement.

 

I'll also add that I'm impatient with the whole "No means No, but women should be able to dress and behave exactly as they choose otherwise" attitude some folks take, because it ignores the problem that the whole hookup/binge drinking culture creates situations where consent is inherently problematic to determine even for people of good will who are trying to be decent.

 

I try to see things from different perspectives.  I had a suspicion, and I realize now, you're approaching it from your daughter's angle, while as I've said, I'm approaching it from my sons' angles.  I have used this specific case as a close-to-home example for my sons (we're all Bills fans) on what and what not to do at a college party.  But that can only go so far, as, for example, you've said that he should have ensured she was safe until she got him, which just isn't realistic IMHO. 

 

As for not being able to give consent, there has to be a line somewhere between stone cold sober and passed-out/going in-and-out of consciousness, and remembering giving consent is a fair line, in the absence of measuring someone's brain waves.  Never mind that Araiza is a good-looking guy (my wife thinks he's hot) who probably has no trouble getting girls, making it a case of "of course she would have given consent even if stone cold sober."  So taken with her saying she was 18, or at least not telling anyone she was 17 (and again, no one believes she told anyone she was 17), statutory rape gets thrown out the window.  And again is why no charges have been filed despite over 10 months since the incident and over a week since the civil suit.  

 

And sure, it's possible Araiza drugged her and tossed her to her teammates, if not participated.  But that needs to be proven.  And I doubt they can, again given the lack of charges.

[BullBuchanan]

I imagine if we as a society put in a sliver as much effort to trying to solve sexual assault cases as some people do in trying to find any possible way to discredit a rape victim, there probably wouldn't be 100s of thousands of unprocessed rape kits in this country and thousands->millions of sexual predators walking around our streets. It's a shame we have no control over that. A damn shame.

[Beck Water]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 But that can only go so far, as, for example, you've said that he should have ensured she was safe until she got him, which just isn't realistic IMHO.

 

'scuse Doc.  But you're putting words in my mouth here; never said that.  If you go back and look, I think you'll see that's actually how you interpreted what I said, and what you said I said.

 

There's a lot to unpack and a lot I could say about the next bit you wrote, but I'm going to try to back off here.  I'll say: please don't conflate "my wife thinks he's hot" with "any girl would consent to him" (a No for many reasons).  Don't mistake "he could get any girl he wants to consent" for "therefore why would he rape?"  That's been long disproven.  Sometimes it's about liking that lack of consent and the sense of power and control and aggression.  That's why "you sick *****!" was an appropriate chant at...never mind.

 

18 minutes ago, Doc said:

And sure, it's possible Araiza drugged her and tossed her to her teammates, if not participated.  But that needs to be proven.  And I doubt they can, again given the lack of charges.

 

Dunno.  Maybe, maybe not.  DA still considering charges.  But keep in mind that lack of charges by a DA who cares about conviction %, doesn't mean "no evidence" either.  It means they don't feel they could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

I will say this: if the plaintiff and her attorney don't have some solid evidence of the drugging/gang rape accusations laid down in the lawsuit, he's one amoral disreputable piece of scum.

[Just Jack]

37 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I imagine if we as a society put in a sliver as much effort to trying to solve sexual assault cases as some people do in trying to find any possible way to discredit a rape victim, there probably wouldn't be 100s of thousands of unprocessed rape kits in this country and thousands->millions of sexual predators walking around our streets. It's a shame we have no control over that. A damn shame.

 

It would be interesting to go through the Watson thread and this thread, and compare what people said in each case. 

[Doc]

 

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

There's a lot to unpack and a lot I could say about the next bit you wrote, but I'm going to try to back off here.  I'll say: please don't conflate "my wife thinks he's hot" with "any girl would consent to him" (a No for many reasons).  Don't mistake "he could get any girl he wants to consent" for "therefore why would he rape?"  That's been long disproven.  Sometimes it's about liking that lack of consent and the sense of power and control and aggression.  That's why "you sick *****!" was an appropriate chant at...never mind.

 

 

No, not "why would he rape," "why would her giving consent be so unbelievable?"  Casual hookups at parties aren't about deep meaningful connections: they're about physical attraction.  I'm not saying that it was the main thing, just another thing that makes her being unable/not wanting to give consent unlikely.

 

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Dunno.  Maybe, maybe not.  DA still considering charges.  But keep in mind that lack of charges by a DA who cares about conviction %, doesn't mean "no evidence" either.  It means they don't feel they could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

I will say this: if the plaintiff and her attorney don't have some solid evidence of the drugging/gang rape accusations laid down in the lawsuit, he's one amoral disreputable piece of scum.

 

I'll bet that the DA is not going to file charges against Araiza and is only saying that to buy him more time for this to get out of the nation spotlight and then no one will remember that he never ended-up filing charges against him.  The other guys, who knows?  But as I said, I want to see the evidence they have.

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Just Jack said:

 

It would be interesting to go through the Watson thread and this thread, and compare what people said in each case. 

Oh for sure. I'm sure you find some interesting takes in PPP too.

[unbillievable]

That must have been one-hellofa-drunk-filled-***** if no one, not Araiza nor the victim, remembers anything that happened that night.

 

 

[extrahammer]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Oh for sure. I'm sure you find some interesting takes in PPP too.

There's differences, Watson wasn't accused of "gang r*pe" but he had over 20 accusers. Araiza has one accuser and the publicly available facts absolve him from it when you review them. Where are his other accusers? A predator doesn't just prey on one person. The media jumped the gun on him. I don't think he will be charged. The facts are in his favor. I still believe she was r*ped. But Matt wasn't there. 

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, extrahammer said:

There's differences, Watson wasn't accused of "gang r*pe" but he had over 20 accusers. Araiza has one accuser and the publicly available facts absolve him from it when you review them. Where are his other accusers? A predator doesn't just prey on one person. The media jumped the gun on him. I don't think he will be charged. The facts are in his favor. I still believe she was r*ped. But Matt wasn't there. 

Everything that could be wrong with a statement on sexual assault is in your statement. He's really absolved of nothing except that it's possible he didn't know she was underage. It's still possible that he knew, as well as it's possible that he's guilty of everything else on top of it. Unfortunately your statements are pretty common in the way people approach these incidents and It's probably why there's so little prevention and so little justice.

[The Frankish Reich]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

Welcome to life on the modern college campus

Well, to life on the crappy party school campus at least.

I am sooo happy that these dedicated students will have at least $10,000 of their loans forgiven. 

[Gugny]

4 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Everything that could be wrong with a statement on sexual assault is in your statement. He's really absolved of nothing except that it's possible he didn't know she was underage. It's still possible that he knew, as well as it's possible that he's guilty of everything else on top of it. Unfortunately your statements are pretty common in the way people approach these incidents and It's probably why there's so little prevention and so little justice.

 

Spot on.

 

How the hell does anyone on this website know - or even think - that Araiza had consensual sex with the girl, then she was gang raped - BUT - Araiza wasn't there?  It's bias.  Bias based on football fandom.  

 

You replace Matt Araiza's name with Tom Brady and I would bet my house that the TBD:SVU Team would find evidence that he was guilty of everything.

 

This fanbase makes me sick sometimes.

[LeGOATski]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Spot on.

 

How the hell does anyone on this website know - or even think - that Araiza had consensual sex with the girl, then she was gang raped - BUT - Araiza wasn't there?  It's bias.  Bias based on football fandom.  

 

You replace Matt Araiza's name with Tom Brady and I would bet my house that the TBD:SVU Team would find evidence that he was guilty of everything.

 

This fanbase makes me sick sometimes.

Brady was involved?? This is why he took that hiatus, isn't it?! And Gisele is reportedly mad at him. It all makes sense. ***** THAT GUY!!! He should be in jail right now!

 

LOCK HIM UP!

[Doc]

BTW, that is the girl in that video.

[4merper4mer]

The tape, if that girl in it is really the victim, makes this story even sadder……somehow.  Yes she made an error in judgement attending that party.  In an odd way it displays how everyone’s guard was down, because it was a chaotic rah rah party atmosphere with everyone seeming carefree and friendly.  Clearly this was not the actual case.  It’s awful beyond words.
 

To me, in an environment like that it seems more plausible than before that something horrific like what she described happened.  A few people in a massive crowd, with an evil plan whether premeditated or executed on the spur of the moment.  Disgusting.  I imagined…..not sure why…..a party that was a lot different than that hellscape.  
 

Does that make it more or less likely that if she was indeed thrown into a room to get raped that Araiza was the one who did that?  I’m not sure how anyone could think it helps prove either side’s story.  On the one hand he has apparently confirmed his presence and his attorney has stated….I haven’t see this but others on here have…..that Araiza had consensual sex with her, which connects them.  On the other, it sure seems to me that a lot of things about that night would be cloudy in someone’s memory.  If she was filmed before meeting Araiza, it shows her already impaired, if she was filmed after, it calls her story into question completely.  
 

To me, it exposes both lawyers as liars….beyond being the idiots that they have already shown themselves to be.  This is the least surprising aspect of seeing the tape.  I could have guessed it already.

 

I’m wondering how the “Beane should have acted more quickly” crowd feels after watching this tape.  Beane stated he was trying to get to the truth in order to do the right thing,  The assertion of several on here is that he could have easily gotten to the heart of the matter by employing more “investigation resources”….you know, call around to some witnesses and get the straight scoop…..easy peasy.  I’m wondering now if they see what a joke their premise was.  I don’t expect much but more descriptions of how Beane should have gone about his job and turned over all the stones.  Yeah ok.

[extrahammer]

12 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Everything that could be wrong with a statement on sexual assault is in your statement. He's really absolved of nothing except that it's possible he didn't know she was underage. It's still possible that he knew, as well as it's possible that he's guilty of everything else on top of it. Unfortunately your statements are pretty common in the way people approach these incidents and It's probably why there's so little prevention and so little justice.

 

You can say whatever you want, but you disputed me on how basic civil suit processes work a few days ago and now you're disputing the publicly available facts. You keep trying to shame people neutral on the topic as rape apologists and that's just simply a farce. The reality is she's 18 now, her and her attorney decided to make this public and put false facts out there.

 

Again, I do think she was raped, but at this point, there's no evidence whatsoever that indicates Araiza did it. You do realize she's made multiple contradicting public statements as well? Claiming it was consensual and then it wasn't. 

 

What has prevented justice in a lot of these cases is shoddy legal work, her attorney was never well-experienced in this field and it has shown. He doesn't have a good track record, and no matter what you say, you do not beat abuse with more abuse. Her attorney has lashed at everyone but her, he's even lashed out at Bills fans saying they'll believe anything the team tells them and if you know the Bills fan base, you know that is actually the complete opposite. He's lashed out at every turn when it hasn't gone his way, and that's his own fault.

 

If you really care about reviewing the facts of this case, listen to Tim Graham's podcast where he had an attorney on analyzing all the facts. She summarizes what I've been saying since Monday. At this point it's suspect he even filed anything because there's still no case number assigned. 

 

 

[Gugny]

19 minutes ago, Bandito said:

Not really. Facts are still coming out. Some of us still believe in the rule of law and innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not the court of social media/twitter etc

 

My point wasn't to say that Araiza is guilty.

 

My point was to say that there's nothing to show that he's not guilty.

 

This girl could have gone on video and said, "I want to f*** every guy here tonight!"  

 

That is still not an invitation to be raped.

 

 

[CountDorkula]

29 minutes ago, Bandito said:

Not really. Facts are still coming out. Some of us still believe in the rule of law and innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not the court of social media/twitter etc

SO are you on other chat boards or social media platforms trying to unwind the facts of other sexual misconduct and rape cases, or only this one?

[extrahammer]

2 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

SO are you on other chat boards or social media platforms trying to unwind the facts of other sexual misconduct and rape cases, or only this one?

 

SO you're more righteous because you shame people for pointing out facts? Come on... 

[CountDorkula]

Just now, extrahammer said:

 

SO you're more righteous because you shame people for pointing out facts? Come on... 

im not saying that at all.

 

I'm saying people are more invested in trying to prove this case one way or another because the guy was a Bills player. It probabyl came out wrong. 

Just now, Bandito said:

Wait for all facts to come out before casting an opinion on those types of things. With that being said in the US you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. These cases are very hard to determine what actually happened.

agreed, my comment wasnt an attack on you, its just people are more trying to prove guilty or not because the dude was a Bills player.

 

 

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, Bandito said:

Wait for all facts to come out before casting an opinion on those types of things. With that being said in the US you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. These cases are very hard to determine what actually happened.

But we should be happy Tim Graham and the mob expect Beane to get to the truth in a week or so.  That way they can get lots of clicks and prove that they are the most virtuous people on the planet.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

im not saying that at all.

 

I'm saying people are more invested in trying to prove this case one way or another because the guy was a Bills player. It probabyl came out wrong. 

agreed, my comment wasnt an attack on you, its just people are more trying to prove guilty or not because the dude was a Bills player.

 

Who is doing that?  

[extrahammer]

1 minute ago, CountDorkula said:

im not saying that at all.

 

I'm saying people are more invested in trying to prove this case one way or another because the guy was a Bills player. It probabyl came out wrong. 

 

 

 

 

This is a Bills board... 

[4merper4mer]

17 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I imagine if we as a society put in a sliver as much effort to trying to solve sexual assault cases as some people do in trying to find any possible way to discredit a rape victim, there probably wouldn't be 100s of thousands of unprocessed rape kits in this country and thousands->millions of sexual predators walking around our streets. It's a shame we have no control over that. A damn shame.

Do you actually think that faster processing of rape kits will solve everything and eradicate rapists from our streets?

 

Don’t get me wrong, I agree that faster processing, as long as accuracy standards are maintained, is desirable, but to ascribe results like you have done above is inaccurate.  50-ish years ago, DNA analysis didn’t even exist.  It has clearly help solve many cases of all types…..rape, murder, everything……determining guilt and sometimes proving innocence.  It is one of many ways crimes are solved,  I’ll use video surveillance as another example that wasn’t really around until fairly recently.  There are many.  Evidence in a chain has to be maintained properly…..remember OJ?  Processing has to be accurate.  It is my impression….possibly incorrect…..that there are skills involved in DNA analysis aren’t easy to come by and thus there is a backlog.  Technicians don’t grow on trees.  Should we have them work 24/7?  Should we put cameras in every wall of everyone’s home and record everything they do?  That could be a solution and might even be less expensive.  What could go wrong?
 

All the DNA tests in the world are not going to prevent parties like the one on that film from happening and 17 year old girls showing up.  That’s another problem altogether.
 

 

[BullBuchanan]

27 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Do you actually think that faster processing of rape kits will solve everything and eradicate rapists from our streets?

I didn't say that it will solve "everything", but yes, faster processing of rape kits will contribute to more charges, convictions less rapists on the streets. Their value is known and has been proven in arrests that are made years after the fact when it would be otherwise impossible to do so. What we're effectively doing in this country is throwing smoking gun evidence into the back of a storage facility and letting it languish for months or years. Are there cases where it won't lead to a conviction? Sure, but that doesn't mean you do literally nothing for all the rest of the cases where it will.
 

27 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Technicians don’t grow on trees.  Should we have them work 24/7?

 

Train and hire more of them if that's the issue. Pretty straightforward.

 

[Just Jack]

15 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Train and hire more of them if that's the issue. Pretty straightforward.

 

It's not that simple.  You can't just attend a 6 hour Saturday course like insurance reduction or hunter safety. 

 

How to Become a DNA Analyst - College Educated

Quote

 

How to Become a DNA Analyst

DNA analysts typically have a bachelor’s degree in forensic studies, criminalistics, biology or a related field. DNA analysts aspiring to work in crime labs for the Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics are required to have at least a bachelor’s degree in forensic science, genetics or molecular biology. There are actually various majors or areas of specialization from which a DNA analyst student may choose, including serology, chemistry, criminalistics, molecular genetics, physics or molecular biology.

Students complete courses in microbiology, gene development, immunology, biochemistry and infectious diseases. These types of programs also include mandatory laboratory hours and supervised internships. Most technicians must complete a certain number of hours of on-the-job training before they are able to work independently on cases. Some positions require candidates to have at least two years of experience in forensic casework.

Depending on the company, they may also be required to pass a proficiency test. In addition to academic training and experience, DNA analysts should have a strong knowledge of lab equipment and procedures and possess strong written and verbal communication skills.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Just Jack

[BullBuchanan]

11 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

It's not that simple.  You can't just attend a 6 hour Saturday course like insurance reduction or hunter safety. 

 

How to Become a DNA Analyst - College Educated

 

Oh I'm aware of that. Seems like a great argument for increased wages, publicly funded higher education, and diversification of police budgets away from meter maids, bouncers, cars and gun to investigators and scientists. But I dunno, prolly talking out of my ass again.

[4merper4mer]

50 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I didn't say that it will solve "everything", but yes, faster processing of rape kits will contribute to more charges, convictions less rapists on the streets. Their value is known and has been proven in arrests that are made years after the fact when it would be otherwise impossible to do so. What we're effectively doing in this country is throwing smoking gun evidence into the back of a storage facility and letting it languish for months or years. Are there cases where it won't lead to a conviction? Sure, but that doesn't mean you do literally nothing for all the rest of the cases where it will.
 

 

Train and hire more of them if that's the issue. Pretty straightforward.

 

Everything is easy.  And saying law enforcement is doing “literally nothing” is probably a touch inaccurate.  Do you have numbers about how many DNA kits, rape case or otherwise have been processed in recent years?  Do you think that number is growing or shrinking?  I don’t have numbers but a bet on the number having grown rapidly is a pretty safe one.  In an ideal world they are all processed in 10 minutes but in case you haven’t looked around we are not living in an ideal world.  You are correct that they won’t all lead to conviction but you’re also correct that some will.  Ascribing a simple solution to something even though a simple solution does not exist is a lazy thing to do.

 

Does that tape indicate anything to you that there may be some issues wrt to morality that may impact the number of rapes and other crimes that take place to begin with?  That level of unfettered debauchery is not a precursor to a lot of book clubs or pickle ball leagues.  And no I’m not blaming the victim….and no raising children is not an easy thing…..and no….no matter what she did or how bad of a position she put herself into she did not deserve in any way what happened to her that night.  But to pretend it’s all because cops don’t test enough rape kits or that that is even a major factor in the number of rapists on the street is not a well informed opinion.

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Everything is easy.  And saying law enforcement is doing “literally nothing” is probably a touch inaccurate.  Do you have numbers about how many DNA kits, rape case or otherwise have been processed in recent years?  Do you think that number is growing or shrinking?  I don’t have numbers but a bet on the number having grown rapidly is a pretty safe one.  In an ideal world they are all processed in 10 minutes but in case you haven’t looked around we are not living in an ideal world.  You are correct that they won’t all lead to conviction but you’re also correct that some will.  Ascribing a simple solution to something even though a simple solution does not exist is a lazy thing to do.

 

Does that tape indicate anything to you that there may be some issues wrt to morality that may impact the number of rapes and other crimes that take place to begin with?  That level of unfettered debauchery is not a precursor to a lot of book clubs or pickle ball leagues.  And no I’m not blaming the victim….and no raising children is not an easy thing…..and no….no matter what she did or how bad of a position she put herself into she did not deserve in any way what happened to her that night.  But to pretend it’s all because cops don’t test enough rape kits or that that is even a major factor in the number of rapists on the street is not a well informed opinion.

When you aren't making active efforts to fix systemic problems, it's indeed easy to make progress, because all options are open to you. You haven't run out of options yet, because you haven't tried anything. With respect to the untested rape kits, "nothing" is literally what's being done with respect to the untested ones. According to a 2015 report from the Atlantic, Houston had untested kits going back nearly 30 years. https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/02/how-many-crimes-could-clearing-the-rape-kit-backlog-stop/385943/

I'm not "ascribing a simple solution to something", I'm saying that in order for any progress to be made at all, work needs to be done. Laziness is doing nothing and expecting things to improve. We hear people bemoaning all the increased violence that's "plaguing our cities" and yet when people say "hey, here's something to make it better" they cry about tax dollars, personal liberties, or about how it won't completely eradicate the problem, so we shoot it down and choose to do nothing instead. As someone that's basically a professional problem solver, it's maddening.

With respect to your concerns about morality, I throw all of that right out the window as subjective nonsense. Your morality is your personal business, but it's not anyone else's morality and "debauchery" is a again, allowing personal  perception and bias to cloud an actual tangible problem. Kids had raging parties 30, 50, 70, 200 years ago etc, and it's always been the past their prime generations that like to blame all the ills of the world on "kids these days". There's no amount of debauchery possible to excuse or justify someone of being raped.
 

20 minutes ago, Forlorn hope said:

Translation

 

" Take as much money from other productive people because I'm lazy and don't want to work. "

 

 

It's not Sanskrit, so no reason to translate. Just read it and do your best to comprehend. If you need help, drop me a line.

[Forlorn hope]

18 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Everything that could be wrong with a statement on sexual assault is in your statement. He's really absolved of nothing except that it's possible he didn't know she was underage. It's still possible that he knew, as well as it's possible that he's guilty of everything else on top of it. Unfortunately your statements are pretty common in the way people approach these incidents and It's probably why there's so little prevention and so little justice.

Multiple witnesses, including the alleged victims friend said she was telling everyone she was 18, and that Matt Arazia wasn't there during the alleged rape.  You're literally refusing to believe what other women said at this party.

 

You're the one that is accusing people of lying 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Forlorn hope

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, Forlorn hope said:

Multiple witnesses, including the alleged victims friend said she was telling everyone she was 18, and that Matt Arazia wasn't there during the alleged rape.  You're literally refusing to believe what other women said at this party.

 

You're the one that is accusing people of lying 

And now there is a video. I wonder if her lawyer knew about it before a few days ago. I’m sure he’s riproaring mad.

[BananaB]

Classy gal

 

The biggest thing I take from the video is that she’s inside the house having a good time. Everything I read has been that Matt met her outback, they had sex and then he lead her inside where she got gang banged. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by BananaB

[Forlorn hope]

4 hours ago, BananaB said:

Classy gal

 

The biggest thing I take from the video is that she’s inside the house having a good time. Everything I read has been that Matt met her outback, they had sex and then he lead her inside where she got gang banged. 

Can you link the video I can't find it.

 

 

[BananaB]

11 minutes ago, Forlorn hope said:

Can you link the video I can't find it.

 

 

It’s a few pages back

[Forlorn hope]

Nevermind I found it.

 

Will still wait for the facts to unfold but this doesn't look good for her. She's clearly on the tape telling ppl she's 18. Among other things....

 

 

If , and it's a big if still. But if she fabricated this , she needs to go to prison. Like for a year or longer. 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

On 8/31/2022 at 4:46 PM, Beck Water said:

I have had the pleasure of several PM convos with self-identified lawyers.  They all seem to concur with the gist of your take on the lawyers, esp, the plaintiff's, that he's doing things regarded as poor practice in litigation and that don't make sense if the goal is to settle for $$ or win.

 

Laywer for plaintiff appears to be doing it to ruin Araiza's reputation and job career for her and publicity for himself.  He does not care what other laywers think but there will be someone who will hire him because he is a known name now.

[JESSEFEFFER]

On 8/31/2022 at 8:08 PM, Augie said:

 

Ummmm, Ray Lewis got a TV job. We are quite forgiving! 

 

But from where we sit today, this looks like a challenge. 

 

A week from now might look very different. 

 

What the hell do I know?  🤷‍♂️

Jameis Winston, Kobe Bryant and Ben Roethlisberger managed to continue on quite well.  Maybe punters are not worthy of collective public forgetfulness.

[NoSaint]

On 9/2/2022 at 8:11 AM, Gugny said:

 

My point wasn't to say that Araiza is guilty.

 

My point was to say that there's nothing to show that he's not guilty.

 

This girl could have gone on video and said, "I want to f*** every guy here tonight!"  

 

That is still not an invitation to be raped.

 

 

 

two distinct versions of the conversation here: 

 

do you think he committed a crime

 

do you think he will be found guilty 

 

 

to the first, I’m not sure and am in no rush to decide. I have some initial gut reactions but far fro certain. 
 

to the second, I’d be really surprised if he was found guilty