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Julio to Tampa


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57 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What does that even mean? DJ Chark and OBJ aren’t depth they are starters. I want Will Fuller but would he sign here to be a backup? I have to be realistic. Maybe. OBJ also a maybe. But these guys definitely want a path to targets at some point. 
 

I think I’ve said it a million times. The Bills are sold on Gabe Davis. No more split reps. So when you talk depth you have to be realistic and look for backups, not starters.


Did they do all they could? I would think so. Tim Settle and Jordan Phillips are probably going to play at least 50% of the defensive snaps without an injury. So when people say spend cap space on a backup WR instead of a rotating DT they don’t make any sense. That DT plays an important role. The backup WR we hope we never see.

 

I just don't buy that argument that you need to have 4 established DTs on decent contracts in order to have a rotation. Justin Zimmer gave us production on a cheap contract two years ago, Brandin Bryant actually played reasonably well when he got on the field last year. I just think they could have gone lighter there, found a contributor to be the 4th DT on a cheap deal and deeper at outside receiver. So no, I don't think they did all they could. I think they took a decision to prioritise DT, but it was a choice, there was an alternative way of approaching it.

 

Maybe Chark is a pipe dream, maybe.... the Bills are one of only a handful of teams that could offer a legitimate ring chase but maybe even faced with that option he'd have preferred a guaranteed starting job in Detroit. But like I said yesterday a guy like Tre-Quan Smith would have been cheap and an upgrade on Kumerow. 

 

As for the Gabe position - I am sold on him too. I liked him coming out and I criticised them last year for signing someone to play ahead of him and I think that was borne out by what happened when Gabe finally got on the field more. I wanted to make Gabe the starter and bring in a decent depth option behind him last spring too. That has been my desired approach for two springs. 

 

Again, it is relatively small beer in the big picture of how they have built the roster and the job Beane and McDermott have done, but I haven't loved their approach to outside receiver the last two springs. I think they kept Gabe as the depth option a year longer than they should have and then I think they should have been more aggressive pursuing a depth option this spring. 

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10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You can’t possibly believe they did everything they possibly could.… they took a CB,  RB, and LB with their first three picks. It was possible to take a WR or trade up/down for one with those picks? 
 

Give me a break. They didn’t because it wasn’t a priority. 
 

And you act like the defensive line rotation is a must… it’s a must because that’s how McD wants it and they chose that at the expense of other positions… namely offensive starters/depth.

 CB was an obvious need so why even mention that? I think most people agreed having a developing WR with talent is smart. We don’t have that guy as of today. Shakir has played all over the field but he’s built as an inside WR. So we know all that.

 

Hopefully next draft they add another Gabe Davis or better type prospect or 2 to keep the WR room full. 

 

But this year we’re thinking more about veteran depth IMO. Someone who can come in and run all the right routes for Josh for a game or 2 if something happens to Diggs or Davis. We don’t have that guy either. There will be cuts.

 

Right now our top 2 outside guys are set and we have depth at slot and TE. WR depth is not something to get all worked up about unless you don’t feel Gabe Davis is a WR2.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I just don't buy that argument that you need to have 4 established DTs on decent contracts in order to have a rotation. Justin Zimmer gave us production on a cheap contract two years ago, Brandin Bryant actually played reasonably well when he got on the field last year. I just think they could have gone lighter there, found a contributor to be the 4th DT on a cheap deal and deeper at outside receiver. So no, I don't think they did all they could. I think they took a decision to prioritise DT, but it was a choice, there was an alternative way of approaching it.

 

Maybe Chark is a pipe dream, maybe.... the Bills are one of only a handful of teams that could offer a legitimate ring chase but maybe even faced with that option he'd have preferred a guaranteed starting job in Detroit. But like I said yesterday a guy like Tre-Quan Smith would have been cheap and an upgrade on Kumerow. 

 

As for the Gabe position - I am sold on him too. I liked him coming out and I criticised them last year for signing someone to play ahead of him and I think that was borne out by what happened when Gabe finally got on the field more. I wanted to make Gabe the starter and bring in a decent depth option behind him last spring too. That has been my desired approach for two springs. 

 

Again, it is relatively small beer in the big picture of how they have built the roster and the job Beane and McDermott have done, but I haven't loved their approach to outside receiver the last two springs. I think they kept Gabe as the depth option a year longer than they should have and then I think they should have been more aggressive pursuing a depth option this spring. 

There are a bunch of below average starters they could’ve signed. There will be a lot cut in couple weeks.
 

Knowing how McDermott runs his defense I would rather have Settle and Phillips DTs than a quality backup WR. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Buffalo_Stampede
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20 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

He is never healthy anymore, that's the problem

 

 

Sanders was good early and then once he got hurt and came back he was a waste of space out there taking snaps from Davis.

 

Davis is going to put up 1K+ yards this year. All he ever does is make plays when he gets in there, even as a rookie.

 

I'll trust the guys responsible for building the best roster in football more than the guys posting on message boards drinking beer for a living.

Those football guy have never been wrong or ignored a hole in the roster before 🙄

2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Let me make sure I'm understanding you:

 

You're upset that the Bills didn't pursue a 33 YO receiver who's missed an entire year's worth of games over the past two seasons combined?

 

Once you learn to read, you will have a better chance of getting it right.

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21 hours ago, NewEra said:

Lots of people admit it.  Some people just trust the process more than others.  I trust it too, but i was hoping we’d add another outside WR for depth.  Maybe shakir can do it!  Maybe Austin can do it?  Maybe crowder can fill in?  Maybe Mckenzie?  I do think they have a plan for if Davis or Diggs get hurt….but I just don’t know what it is by looking at the depth chart

 

 

That's the situation. There are a lot of guys who might be able to fill in. This is an offense that has had smaller guys as their #3 receiver the last two years.

 

If none of them work out, (my guess is they pepper them all in and out in case of an injury) the coaching staff will surely let Beane know. They could bring Sanders back. Sanders greatly outproduced Julio Jones last year despite not having a great year. If not Sanders, someone else decent, cheap and smart.

 

Some people seem to want excellent players at every position. And it doesn't work that way. Even before the salary cap every team had weaknesses. It's just the way things work in complicated systems.

 

When they fix the weakest position, then people complain about what used to be the second-weakest position which has now fallen to worst. Fix the weakest two positions and people will complain about the third-weakest which has now fallen to weakest. It never ends.

Edited by Thurman#1
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4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Some people seem to want excellent players at every position. And it doesn't work that way. Even before the salary cap every team had weaknesses. It's just the way things work in complicated systems.

 

When they fix the weakest position, then people complain about what used to be the second-weakest position which has now fallen to worst. Fix the weakest two positions and people will complain about the third-weakest which has now fallen to weakest. It never ends.

 

So this is true, but that is what we do as fans. It doesn't mean people don't appreciate where the team is at. And of course every team has weaknesses but they are also all making choices about where to take that risk. We, as fans, debate the merits of those choices. That is what this thread is for me. It's a sort of referendum on he decision to plough their FA cash into the defensive line as opposed to receiver depth. Only time shows whether they were right or wrong but it is a legitimate discussion. 

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Again, it is relatively small beer in the big picture of how they have built the roster and the job Beane and McDermott have done, but I haven't loved their approach to outside receiver the last two springs. I think they kept Gabe as the depth option a year longer than they should have and then I think they should have been more aggressive pursuing a depth option this spring. 

 

 

I don't think it's relatively small because the talent drop-off from the WR1 and WR2 to everyone else is that massive.

 

Their obsession with defensive depth is impressive though.    

 

This defense should shut everybody down..........the team has never had this much invested in a defense in its history..........lotta' money and 6 of the last 8 first rounders on that side of the ball.

 

So if the receiving corps is a failure they might be able to run it and punt it and still win enough games to get in the tournament and then just let Josh Allen run 12-15 times per game in the playoffs and see what happens.

 

Hopefully it never gets to that though.    Very telling that Beane isn't downplaying the depth situation at outside WR though.   

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3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't think it's relatively small because the talent drop-off from the WR1 and WR2 to everyone else is that massive.

 

Their obsession with defensive depth is impressive though.    

 

This defense should shut everybody down..........the team has never had this much invested in a defense in its history..........lotta' money and 6 of the last 8 first rounders on that side of the ball.

 

So if the receiving corps is a failure they might be able to run it and punt it and still win enough games to get in the tournament and then just let Josh Allen run 12-15 times per game in the playoffs and see what happens.

 

Hopefully it never gets to that though.    Very telling that Beane isn't downplaying the depth situation at outside WR though.   

 

I meant the big picture in terms of since 2017, not specific to this year. 

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23 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Julio seems to always have lingering hamstring injuries, but when he's on the field he's still plenty good.  Only 33 years old.  He averaged 14ypc with Tannehill as his QB and 15.1 the year before (his last in Atlanta).

 

Yeah, but Availability is greater than ability. If you can't stay on the field it's tough, and the kind of injuries it is just screams that this will never get better. Soft tissue generally doesn't get stronger with age.

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Let’s stop this bickering and actually look at the top Super Bowl contenders. Some of these WRs like Godwin, Allen, Kupp, and Smith-Schuster are going to run out the slot the majority of the time but can play all over.

 

The Bills definitely could use another WR, especially comparing to the league. That 3rd guy is weak. Top 2 guys I’m taking the Bills over Chiefs, Packers, 49ers, Cowboys, Colts, Broncos, and Ravens. So top 2 we’re good. Upgrade needed at #3. Now I know Crowder can play, but he’s like Beasley. A slot only guy.

 

Bills - Stefon Diggs, Gabe Davis, Jake Kumerow

 

Bucs - Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Julio Jones/Russel Gage

 

Chiefs - JuJu Smith Schuster, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Mecole Hardman, 

 

Packers - Adam Lazar, Sammy Watkins, Christian Watson

 

Rams - Cooper Kupp, Allen Robinson, Van Jefferson

 

Chargers - Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Josh Palmer

 

49ers - Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk, Danny Gray

 

Cowboys - Ceedee Lamb, Michael Gullup, Jalen Tolbert

 

Colts - Michael Pittman, Alec Pierre, Paris Campbell

 

Broncos - Cortland Sutton, Jerry Juedy, Tim Patrick 

 

Ravens - Rashod Bateman, Devin Duevernay, James Proche

 

Bengals - JaMarr Chase, Tee Higgins, Tyler Boyd

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5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Let’s stop this bickering and actually look at the top Super Bowl contenders. Some of these WRs like Godwin, Allen, Kupp, and Smith-Schuster are going to run out the slot the majority of the time but can play all over.

 

The Bills definitely could use another WR, especially comparing to the league. That 3rd guy is weak. Top 2 guys I’m taking the Bills over Chiefs, Packers, 49ers, Cowboys, Colts, Broncos, and Ravens. So top 2 we’re good. Upgrade needed at #3. Now I know Crowder can play, but he’s like Beasley. A slot only guy.

 

Bills - Stefon Diggs, Gabe Davis, Jake Kumerow

 

Bucs - Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Julio Jones/Russel Gage

 

Chiefs - JuJu Smith Schuster, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Mecole Hardman, 

 

Packers - Adam Lazar, Sammy Watkins, Christian Watson

 

Rams - Cooper Kupp, Allen Robinson, Van Jefferson

 

Chargers - Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Josh Palmer

 

49ers - Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk, Danny Gray

 

Cowboys - Ceedee Lamb, Michael Gullup, Jalen Tolbert

 

Colts - Michael Pittman, Alec Pierre, Paris Campbell

 

Broncos - Cortland Sutton, Jerry Juedy, Tim Patrick 

 

Ravens - Rashod Bateman, Devin Duevernay, James Proche

 

Bengals - JaMarr Chase, Tee Higgins, Tyler Boyd

 

Agree there are a group of teams where I would take our 1-2 over theirs - Ravens, Broncos, Colts, Cowboys, Packers, Chiefs. 

 

But the only team where Kumerow is comparable to their #3 is Baltimore where Proche is there for his ST ability as a returner and Kumerow is mainly here for his ST ability as a gunner. Watson, Gray and Tolbert are obviously rookies. Man it upsets me still seeing Tolbert on the Cowboys. He went 1 pick before us. I doubt the Bills were interested in him because if they were surely they'd have traded up, but man I love that kid. I think he is gonna be really good. 

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9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree there are a group of teams where I would take our 1-2 over theirs - Ravens, Broncos, Colts, Cowboys, Packers, Chiefs. 

 

But the only team where Kumerow is comparable to their #3 is Baltimore where Proche is there for his ST ability as a returner and Kumerow is mainly here for his ST ability as a gunner. Watson, Gray and Tolbert are obviously rookies. Man it upsets me still seeing Tolbert on the Cowboys. He went 1 pick before us. I doubt the Bills were interested in him because if they were surely they'd have traded up, but man I love that kid. I think he is gonna be really good. 

He would’ve been a perfect developmental WR but LB was also weak at depth. He’s the one player I look at and wonder about. Also in 2021 instead of 2 DEs early maybe a WR to develop.

 

If you look at that list though if they add someone like Breshard Perriman after cuts I think it’s a solid group.

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48 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Let’s stop this bickering and actually look at the top Super Bowl contenders. Some of these WRs like Godwin, Allen, Kupp, and Smith-Schuster are going to run out the slot the majority of the time but can play all over.

 

The Bills definitely could use another WR, especially comparing to the league. That 3rd guy is weak. Top 2 guys I’m taking the Bills over Chiefs, Packers, 49ers, Cowboys, Colts, Broncos, and Ravens. So top 2 we’re good. Upgrade needed at #3. Now I know Crowder can play, but he’s like Beasley. A slot only guy.

 

Bills - Stefon Diggs, Gabe Davis, Jake Kumerow

 

Bucs - Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Julio Jones/Russel Gage

 

Chiefs - JuJu Smith Schuster, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Mecole Hardman, 

 

Packers - Adam Lazar, Sammy Watkins, Christian Watson

 

Rams - Cooper Kupp, Allen Robinson, Van Jefferson

 

Chargers - Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Josh Palmer

 

49ers - Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk, Danny Gray

 

Cowboys - Ceedee Lamb, Michael Gullup, Jalen Tolbert

 

Colts - Michael Pittman, Alec Pierre, Paris Campbell

 

Broncos - Cortland Sutton, Jerry Juedy, Tim Patrick 

 

Ravens - Rashod Bateman, Devin Duevernay, James Proche

 

Bengals - JaMarr Chase, Tee Higgins, Tyler Boyd

Kumerow is not the Bills number 3 WR.  That looks to be either Crowder or McKenzie at this point.  Kumerow is 6 or 7 in reality.  I get the point at outside depth and the choices made in DL vs WR investment people are trying to make but the situation is not as dire as some are making it out to be.  The Bills had excellent production from that number 3 spot last year and have the potential to be better there this year.  

 

If Hodgins, or Stevenson, or Shakir do not prove to be decent enough outside depth during camp then I would not be surprised at a depth signing late but that remains to be seen.  If the Bills lose Diggs for an extended period it will be trouble surely, but that is the same for any team on that above list, where none of the number threes listed has a chance of adequately replacing the number one guy.  The Bills have worked on making their offense more versatile this year as a priority.  We will have to see how that factors into the situation as well.  

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10 minutes ago, FLFan said:

Kumerow is not the Bills number 3 WR.  That looks to be either Crowder or McKenzie at this point.  Kumerow is 6 or 7 in reality.  I get the point at outside depth and the choices made in DL vs WR investment people are trying to make but the situation is not as dire as some are making it out to be.  The Bills had excellent production from that number 3 spot last year and have the potential to be better there this year.  

 

If Hodgins, or Stevenson, or Shakir do not prove to be decent enough outside depth during camp then I would not be surprised at a depth signing late but that remains to be seen.  If the Bills lose Diggs for an extended period it will be trouble surely, but that is the same for any team on that above list, where none of the number threes listed has a chance of adequately replacing the number one guy.  The Bills have worked on making their offense more versatile this year as a priority.  We will have to see how that factors into the situation as well.  

Oh I know. We choose quickness over height and length. At least the last 2/3 years. X and Z WRs tend to be taller and longer. We’ve done it with smaller WRs.
 

Knox can also lineup at the X and Z. If anything I would say he’d see more time split out wide with an injury. Top TEs like Kelce and Waller already do that. We could see more of this from Knox.

Edited by Buffalo_Stampede
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This won't help Tommy Boy have time to get the ball to Julio if it turns out bad.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/07/28/ryan-jensen-carted-off-the-field-with-knee-injury/

Quote

The Buccaneers may have a significant injury concern along their offensive line early in training camp. According to multiple reporters on the Bucs beat, center Ryan Jensen went down with an apparent lower left leg injury. He was down for a while as teammates took a knee when the cart came out. Jensen did not put much weight on his left leg as he was helped into the cart and driven off.

 

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6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How’s their center depth? 🤫

 

Robert Hainsey came in to replace Jensen at center after the injury. He was a third-round pick last year and appeared in nine games. He played 31 offensive snaps and 35 special teams snaps.

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