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Your Top 3 Players from the "Drought Era" you'd add to the current roster


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7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Man, you guys are really worked up.   I just have opinion about the guy, and it's different from your opinion.  

I mean to be fair here, unless I may have misunderstood and correct me if I'm wrong or your meaning differed from your wording.... but it sounded like you were stating a few things as facts (a couple I believe you are incorrect about also) rather than opinion. 

 

Not my intention to break your balls or nothing because everyone is wrong about something, but just kinda seemed like when you referred to Peters in one of your post you said you were "basing on facts" and was pointed out to be not quite correct, then afterwards you kinda changed course as opinion. 

 

 

 

 

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On 6/6/2022 at 7:19 AM, eball said:

 

I’m not an OL expert by any means, but (a) it took Dawkins half a season to get over Covid, (b) Bobby Johnson was/is awful, and (c) they will enter this season with a more athletic line that suits zone blocking schemes more appropriately.

 

Dawkins and Morse are studs, Saffold is an upgrade, Bates played adequately when they finally put him in there, and Brown hopefully makes a nice 2nd year jump.  There is actually reason for optimism if you look for it.  Quessenberry, Mancz, and Doyle are decent depth, and probably Boettger too if he is recovered.

 

And Beach Chairs — the single best move the Bills made on their coaching staff.

 

I just don’t believe the OL is going to be the Bills’ weakness or hold them back.

 

 

It’s going to rear it’s ugly head at some point IMO…. Just going to have to hope Josh can mask it when it does like he did last year. 

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1 hour ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

I mean to be fair here, unless I may have misunderstood and correct me if I'm wrong or your meaning differed from your wording.... but it sounded like you were stating a few things as facts (a couple I believe you are incorrect about also) rather than opinion. 

 

Not my intention to break your balls or nothing because everyone is wrong about something, but just kinda seemed like when you referred to Peters in one of your post you said you were "basing on facts" and was pointed out to be not quite correct, then afterwards you kinda changed course as opinion. 

 

 

 

 

It IS a fact that as a player he left multiple games with injuries and returned later.  I saw it.   It was, as I said, predictable.   He did it a lot.   I don't remember if he did it with the Bills, but I know he did it with the Eagles.  I saw it.  


That's the basis of my opinion that he is not one of the top 3 guys that I would add to the team. 

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24 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It IS a fact that as a player he left multiple games with injuries and returned later.  I saw it.   It was, as I said, predictable.   He did it a lot.   I don't remember if he did it with the Bills, but I know he did it with the Eagles.  I saw it.  


That's the basis of my opinion that he is not one of the top 3 guys that I would add to the team. 

The Bills is what I was referring to. You're previous post you stated it was fact while he was on Bills and that's where you're incorrect. And here you now say you don't remember while with the Bills.  So that's where it was questioned I believe.

22 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm basing it on the fact that I saw him, over and over, as a Bill and then as an Eagle, leave games for plays or for quarters.  He didn't play hurt.  He was predictable that way.  Great player, in the same way Mario was a great player. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

The Bills is what I was referring to. You're previous post you stated it was fact while he was on Bills and that's where you're incorrect. And here you now say you don't remember while with the Bills.  So that's where it was questioned I believe.

 

fair enough.  i know he did it with the Eagles, but I can't say for sure about the Bills.  

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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

It IS a fact that as a player he left multiple games with injuries and returned later.  I saw it.   It was, as I said, predictable.   He did it a lot.   I don't remember if he did it with the Bills, but I know he did it with the Eagles.  I saw it.  


That's the basis of my opinion that he is not one of the top 3 guys that I would add to the team. 

 

Availability is one of the most important attributes of players.

 

And a laywer who did not play games with Bills.

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3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

It IS a fact that as a player he left multiple games with injuries and returned later.  I saw it.   It was, as I said, predictable.   He did it a lot.   I don't remember if he did it with the Bills, but I know he did it with the Eagles.  I saw it.  


That's the basis of my opinion that he is not one of the top 3 guys that I would add to the team. 

Yea… You’d be an utter idiot not to want to add a hall of fame LT to this roster…. But you do you. 

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5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Man, you guys are really worked up.   I just have opinion about the guy, and it's different from your opinion.  

 

You keep going back and forth between whether it's your opinion or a fact depending on what's convenient.

 

What you've said is not factual.

 

Is it your opinion.......as a homer who will make up utter nonsense to further that agenda?

 

Probably so, yes.

 

But you could also have just misremembered because that's just how you want to remember the player.

 

Just learn to recognize your own BS, please.

 

Players leave games injured at times.    Josh Allen once left a closely contested and critical home game against the Patriots and Barkley came in and sh*t himself and the Bills lost that critical game.   Happened against Houston too and Peterman came in and was a disaster in defeat.    Did you see any bones snap in those instances?   How are we to be certain he was hurt that bad and Peters wasn't in situations where he might have left the field?   I'm sure you'd find it ridiculous to question JA's toughness though.

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43 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… You’d be an utter idiot not to want to add a hall of fame LT to this roster…. But you do you. 

 

Back in those dark ages of Donahoe/Levy/Brandon as GM's we used to see some ridiculously misdirected crusades against players on TSW.     Peters was one that a lot of posters were always looking to contrive any excuse to bash.    People like Shaw just can't let it go.

 

But one of the more fervent crusades was the hate against Bryant McKinnie.........because their Lord and Savior Tom Donahoe chose to select a slovenly bum RT with a bummier knee......Mike Williams.........instead of the broadly accepted #1 LT in the draft in McKinnie.      The McKinnie hate watching continued long after Mike Williams very brief and lousy career.    McKinnie didn't turn into a HOF'er like Peters but he did become a long time stud LT.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Back in those dark ages of Donahoe/Levy/Brandon as GM's we used to see some ridiculously misdirected crusades against players on TSW.     Peters was one that a lot of posters were always looking to contrive any excuse to bash.    People like Shaw just can't let it go.

 

But one of the more fervent crusades was the hate against Bryant McKinnie.........because their Lord and Savior Tom Donahoe chose to select a slovenly bum RT with a bummier knee......Mike Williams.........instead of the broadly accepted #1 LT in the draft in McKinnie.      The McKinnie hate watching continued long after Mike Williams very brief and lousy career.    McKinnie didn't turn into a HOF'er like Peters but he did become a long time stud LT.

 

 

Don’t forget Nate Clements, a total phenom of a CB, absolute stud. Jags made a great play to win Week 1 in 2004 against him, and all you heard for weeks was “friggin’ Playmaker”. :doh:

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On 6/3/2022 at 3:21 PM, BigDingus said:

So I saw this question on Twitter & thought I'd ask it here just for fun.  What 3 players from 2000-2017 era of no playoffs would you guys choose to replace a current roster member with?  Also, which specific known starters would you replace with them?

 

**********

 

1. Takeo Spikes, LB - He normally played ILB, but I'd replace Milano as I'd prefer to see him & Edmunds on the field together. But if it came down to it, I'd take him over Edmunds too.

2. Ruben Brown, LG - He sometimes was called "overrated" by fans, but the guy made 8x Pro Bowls & 4x 2nd team All Pro on the Bills. He made the playoffs, but he played for us until signing with the Bears in 2004. I'd replace Ryan Bates & hope Saffold can play RG 😁

3. Marshawn Lynch, RB - There's a lot of good picks for RB, but I think having a really powerful, hard to tackle back that can get those tough yards would be best. I know the conventional wisdom would suggest someone good at catching the ball & be a dual receiving threat, but I think Lynch would kill it in this setup. The field is so spread out, he'd have a field day, and Josh would be the additional running threat if plays break down. Plus, there are just those short yardage situations you'd prefer to have Lynch over a QB sneak or a more shifty guy like Shady. 

 

**********

 

Anyway, I really wanted to put Kyle Williams on the list, or an underrated guy like Terrance McGee who was a strong CB & ST guy (CB in particular has some nice candidates), but these are the 3 I'd love to take most. 

 

Like Brown, Kyle Williams also was not from the drought years. He made playoffs.......😎😂

 

I would take Jason Peters, Spikes, Lynch. Drought year guys. That was the assignment. 

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On 6/6/2022 at 5:11 PM, Shaw66 said:

There is no such thing, so far as I know, as a "right tackle contract" and a "left tackle contract."   He signed a contract to play for the Bills, and the fact that his position changed didn't give him any additional rights.   He was just like any other player who signed a contract and then got better.   If he'd believed in himself and how much better he was going to get, he wouldn't have signed the contract.  

 

I don't understand this. He was NOT "just like any other player." He was a GREAT player at one of the 3 (if not 2) most important positions. He was easily the best player on the team.

The Bills trade of Jason Peters was one of the most things that I ever saw the Bills do, which says quite a bit. It was perhaps even dumber than drafting Whitner, passing on McKinney for Mike Williams, or even hiring Marv Levy as GM. 

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6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Back in those dark ages of Donahoe/Levy/Brandon as GM's we used to see some ridiculously misdirected crusades against players on TSW.     Peters was one that a lot of posters were always looking to contrive any excuse to bash.    People like Shaw just can't let it go.

 

But one of the more fervent crusades was the hate against Bryant McKinnie.........because their Lord and Savior Tom Donahoe chose to select a slovenly bum RT with a bummier knee......Mike Williams.........instead of the broadly accepted #1 LT in the draft in McKinnie.      The McKinnie hate watching continued long after Mike Williams very brief and lousy career.    McKinnie didn't turn into a HOF'er like Peters but he did become a long time stud LT.

 

 

Iirc, Williams also had a pretty bad ankle injury. Not good for a 360 pound (at least) RIGHT tackle (his position at Texas). For some reason Donohoe hated McKinnie and so did many posters. Williams sucked, and McKinnie had a long successful career as a prominent NFL LT.

 

I truly believe that the Bills neglected the OL for so very long that many Bills fans are conditioned to look past the importance of blocking to this very day. 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Iirc, Williams also had a pretty bad ankle injury. Not good for a 360 pound (at least) RIGHT tackle (his position at Texas). For some reason Donohoe hated McKinnie and so did many posters. Williams sucked, and McKinnie had a long successful career as a prominent NFL LT.

 

I truly believe that the Bills neglected the OL for so very long that many Bills fans are conditioned to look past the importance of blocking to this very day. 

 

 

 

 

 

They actually had a lot of "Left Tackle Luck" in that Donahoe period too.

 

 In the last Dwight Adams draft(Donahoe's first) they drafted Jonas Jennings and he was a really talented player..........I believe his rookie season he started at RT and didn't allow a sack.    He was every bit the blocker that Dion Dawkins is today(and probably even better in pass pro) but he was constantly leaving the field injured.

 

Then they had a chance to select McKinnie.........who was considered a slam dunk pick to the Bills.......even in the fall prior to that draft.   SHOUT! magazine had an issue that fall with McKinnie on the cover LOL.   Hard to emphasize enough how OBVIOUS it was that he be the Bills first draft pick.  

 

But even after the Williams pick blunder,  Jennings moved to LT and played well.   But after they struck gold with Peters in UDFA they couldn't justify re-signing the too-oft-injured Jennings once Peters emerged.   Having 3 talented LT's like that should have been a blessing but by 2009 the Bills were LT-bankrupt and starting "Da'Mattress" Bell.    That 2009 OL might have been an all-time low point for Bills OL play.    I believe there was a stat presented during the opener that the Bills OL had the least combined starts of any opening day OL to play in the NFL since the merger.    

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5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They actually had a lot of "Left Tackle Luck" in that Donahoe period too.

 

 In the last Dwight Adams draft(Donahoe's first) they drafted Jonas Jennings and he was a really talented player..........I believe his rookie season he started at RT and didn't allow a sack.    He was every bit the blocker that Dion Dawkins is today(and probably even better in pass pro) but he was constantly leaving the field injured.

 

Then they had a chance to select McKinnie.........who was considered a slam dunk pick to the Bills.......even in the fall prior to that draft.   SHOUT! magazine had an issue that fall with McKinnie on the cover LOL.   Hard to emphasize enough how OBVIOUS it was that he be the Bills first draft pick.  

 

But even after the Williams pick blunder,  Jennings moved to LT and played well.   But after they struck gold with Peters in UDFA they couldn't justify re-signing the too-oft-injured Jennings once Peters emerged.   Having 3 talented LT's like that should have been a blessing but by 2009 the Bills were LT-bankrupt and starting "Da'Mattress" Bell.    That 2009 OL might have been an all-time low point for Bills OL play.    I believe there was a stat presented during the opener that the Bills OL had the least combined starts of any opening day OL to play in the NFL since the merger.    

 

And there was a rough patch there for 3 years but we then went in 2012 to Cordy Glenn who was a top 10 LT pre his health issues and then Dion who has been in that fringe top 10 range as well. Overall LT hasn't been a huge problem for the Bills in my fandom - though Peters is the stand out the star, obviously - the issue they have had is putting a consistently good unit around it. The list of right tackles is rather more desperate and they have rarely seemed to have good guard play. Which is why when people say in draft discussions "don't draft a tackle we have Dion" my response is always I'd rather have too many good tackles and work out where they play later than too few. 

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